Vagus nerve and sleeping (sleeping on right side may be best)

[Mary]

I recently had some Things Go Wrong With Me which landed me in the hospital for 2 weeks, totally unexpected, had 2 - 3 procedures, sent home 3 weeks ago and almost recovered - except for sleep. Sleep, always elusive at the best of times, was worse than ever. I tried breathing exercises, higher doses of all my usual sleep supps (inositol, l-theanine, melatonin, some Chinese herbs, glycine, etc.) and nothing - several nights with literally no sleep, a few with minutes snatched here and there.

I found a one-minute youtube video about resetting your nervous system in one minute, had to do with the vagus nerve. It may have helped a little one or two nights but then stopped, though it got my brain thinking about the vagus nerve. (

)

Anyways, yesterday I stumbled across the crucial information that sleeping on one's back decreases vagus nerve stimulation and that sleeping on one's right side causes the greatest vagus nerve stimulation (https://mindd.org/vagus-nerve-stimu... a form of,electrical waves synced with music.).

Because of the surgical procedures I'd been forced to sleep on my back for over 2 weeks at home (too painful otherwise) - arggghhh!!!!! It didn't matter in the hospital because I was on a lot of drugs there, but once home was a different story.

Last night I carefully positioned on my right side, and it was like a miracle - I feel asleep within a reasonable period of time. I woke about 12:30, back to sleep till 3:00 or so, and then may have slept a bit more off and on, I'm not just sure, but this was more sleep than I'd had in the past 4 nights. I'm crossing my fingers that this pattern continues and maybe even gets a bit better.

Anyways this was all new information to me, hope it helps someone else -

The breathing exercise I did (which you can do anywhere) was just inhaling for 4 or 5 seconds, and then exhaling for 6 or 7. It's similar to box or 4-sided breathing and 4-7-8 breathing (I think they all have similar results, you can google it)

 

[linusbert]

forget the vagus nerve, its useless. never works. just broken all the time. cut it out, throw it away.. or knit a few socks with it. we cfs folks strife on the sympathicus!

hospital and surgery sounds awful and scarry. hope you are fine now besides the sleep.

 

[Mary]

Sorry @linusbert , I'm not going to forget the vagus nerve because I can't forget how I managed to sleep last night, after zero sleep the night before! (and the night before that too) I am pretty much fine, it was a bizarre experience, surreal, it's been decades since I was last in a hospital but this was necessary. I was too out of it I think most of the time to get scared, fair amount of drugs! Thanks for your good wishes

 

[cheeseater]

Before my sleep apnea resolved itself, I could sleep on my right side without incident. If I slept on my left side or back I would have sleep apnea all night. Two overnight sleep studies and they did not note this. I fugured it out myself.

 

[Wishful]

It takes me a lot longer to fall asleep on my right side than on my left. I think I only fall asleep on my right side if I'm really, really tired. Falling asleep on my back or front is difficult too.

 

[linusbert]

It takes me a lot longer to fall asleep on my right side than on my left. I think I only fall asleep on my right side if I'm really, really tired. Falling asleep on my back or front is difficult too.

same for me. on the back is hard for me. if i turn left side, i fall asleep in minutes or seconds.

the best sleep in my life i had on the back on a water bed one time. never could replicate.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

I recently had some Things Go Wrong With Me

laugh...I love how you Framed That.

Yeah, a few things have Gone Wrong around here recently, too! Glad your on the mend, @Mary

I stumbled across the crucial information that sleeping on one's back decreases vagus nerve stimulation and that sleeping on one's right side causes the greatest vagus nerve stimulation

that is very interesting!

- I have slept on my side for many decades and I even think I cannot sleep lying flat on my back, what so ever.

-naps must occur lying on my stomach/across the bed sideways. Thats the only position I can nap in.

- my friend who does body work encouraged me to sleep on my back recently (to improve some shoulder issues).

-my husband and I are both side sleepers, and so he is NO LONGER sleeping next to me. This entirely changes the sleeping dynamic (he is in the long term care facility).

And because of my constant neck problems, I was heating up the buckwheat wrap in the microwave and using that and it sort of enabled me to: sleep on my back: which I am now doing between midnight and about six am.

Personally, sleeping curled up in a fetal position on my side under the blankets seems to be the natural version of sleeping. Lying on my back never does.

Something that drives me crazy in movies: how when people get awakened by a dream or noise, they show people sitting up in bed, bolting up. NO- you HIDE in the covers. But Hollywood can't film Hiding under the cover's well.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

and about six am.

to clarify, I wake up alot from about 6 or 7 on, wander to bathrooms, sit on toilets moaning, often still asleep.

Go back to bed. Sleep more. I can pretty much almost fall asleep like a narcolepsy victim, just about anywhere...but I want to lie down. Anytime I am in a chair thats not my one chair at home, I want to fall over pass out and check out.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

that sleeping on one's right side causes the greatest vagus nerve stimulation

delayed stomach emptying- happens to me...and extreme acute situations I get acute extreme severe gastroperesis. It scares me.

Anyway, sharing here that the b-caryophylene topically applied as Copaiba Oil to the stomach area, seems to "help" my delayed emptying ...it seems to lesson it. I even maybe headed off an acute situation by applying it at midnight (and then I also use the bio magnets)

 

[Mary]

Yeah, a few things have Gone Wrong around here recently, too! Glad your on the mend, @Mary

Thanks @Rufous McKinney ! I know my experience was a walk in the park compared to what has been going on with you and your husband. I've been out of touch but just glanced briefly at your thread. I think there must be a special circle in hell reserved for insurance companies and their minions!

 

[Mary]

Based on others' experiences here, I just changed the title of the thread to say that sleeping on the right side "may be" best - not "is"!

 

[Rufous McKinney]

I think there must be a special circle in hell reserved for insurance companies and their minions!

One of our discoveries is the SYSTEM is set up to ENABLE the insurers. Whenever we call the insurer they tell us they didn't deny ANYTHING.

The FACILITY does it for you. And subcontractors you've never heard of. The Facility announces you don't need their services, and stops ASKING for the insurer to cover it. THATS HOW ITS DONE.

But yes, I am convinced there will be a Reckoning. And they will have to reckon on how they were the enablers.

 

[Wayne]

Was just watching a video, and ran across an interesting 12-second tidbit on a novel way to stimulate the vagus nerve. The whole 22-min. video is interesting, informative, and even entertaining. But if you watch for 12 seconds from where the video starts, it "may" be another piece to possibly getting better sleep.

 

[almost]

Thank you @Mary for this. My primal instinct has been pointing to the vagus nerve for the last year, and its a tricky bugger to manage. I do breathing exercises, but I think I need to pay more attention to it. Anything I can learn to do to reset it or calm it, etc, is welcomed.

I do sleep on my right side, so at least I have that going for me.

 

[Mary]

Was just watching a video, and ran across an interesting 12-second tidbit on a novel way to stimulate the vagus nerve. The whole 22-min. video is interesting, informative, and even entertaining. But if you watch for 12 seconds from where the video starts, it "may" be another piece to possibly getting better sleep.

Thanks @Wayne Very interesting little tidbit about food that tastes bitter (e.g., digestive bitters) stimulating the vagus nerve!

 

[almost]

But if you watch for 12 seconds from where the video starts, it "may" be another piece to possibly getting better sleep.

Thank you @Wayne for posting the video. I had seen this before and actually ordered Swedish Bitters as a result, but then forgot to follow-through and try them. I also see Bitter Melon at the farmer's market, but I haven't built up the courage to try it. Has anyone tried the using bitters to stimulate their vagus nerve? If so, did it help?

 

[maddietod]

Sleep, always elusive at the best of times, was worse than ever.

I found a one-minute youtube video about resetting your nervous system in one minute, had to do with the vagus nerve.

Last night I carefully positioned on my right side, and it was like a miracle... I'm crossing my fingers that this pattern continues and maybe even gets a bit better.

The breathing exercise I did (which you can do anywhere) was just inhaling for 4 or 5 seconds, and then exhaling for 6 or 7. It's similar to box or 4-sided breathing and 4-7-8 breathing (I think they all have similar results, you can google it)

I wake 4-5 times a night, 3 times in 9 hours on a good night. I will try using pillows to keep myself on my right side, and see what happens. Meanwhile, to get to sleep quickly I used a breathing pattern similar to yours until I figured out that long deep humming works just as well, and faster for me.

How is your sleep now?

 

[Mary]

I wake 4-5 times a night, 3 times in 9 hours on a good night. I will try using pillows to keep myself on my right side, and see what happens. Meanwhile, to get to sleep quickly I used a breathing pattern similar to yours until I figured out that long deep humming works just as well, and faster for me.

How is your sleep now?

Hi @maddietod - well, I found that sleeping on my right side was not the holy grail, I switch back and forth now, though no longer have to sleep on my back, unless I want to.

I did read a book about humming actually and how it can help lower BP - It sounds like what you do, and sometimes I do the humming. It is very calming and I think a great idea.

But most recently, about 2 months ago or maybe a little more, I started taking Now Foods hawthorn berry (540 mg.), 6 caps a day (2 with each meal), trying to lower my BP. It did (and still does) help my BP, but that didn't kick in until maybe a week or so, but it almost immediately improved my sleep. I'd never read about this, hadn't anticipated it, but within a day or 2 of starting the hawthorn berry, I'm sleeping like I hadn't slept in a long time. I think whatever it does to help lower BP also helps with sleep. I'm still taking it and I sleep very well now the first 3- 4 hours of the night. And then I usually have a bit of trouble going back to sleep, but if I dont' have to get up in the morning, I try to ride it out and usually go back to sleep. If I do have to get up in the morning, then I'll take 1/2 of a Unisom tablet (1/4 used to work but have developed a tolerance) and I do go back to sleep the rest of the night. Overall I am getting 7 - 8 hours a night. It's amazing compared to last year.

Also, I had a severe sensitivity to MSG in all its forms (see https://www.truthinlabeling.org/names.html). A handful of olives with guar gum or xantham gum in its brine kept me awake until after 3:00 a.m. I had to be extremely careful with anything I ate at dinner., no processed foods at dinner including mayonnaise or mustard unless very carefully vetted. And that sensitivity is way less now, and might even be gone. I think the hawthorn berry has calmed down my overactive system.

 

[datadragon]

People who were missing the SHANK3 gene and mice that lacked part of the gene had difficulty falling asleep even when sleepy which can occur also with zinc deficiency and high inflammation levels (NLRP3 over activation) that lower Shank3 levels. Shank3 is an important modulator of sleep and clock gene expression.
https://elifesciences.org/articles/42819 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5974951/

For years, I relied on exhaustion, taking mega-doses of melatonin, tryptophan, and other crutches to sleep. With Lactobacillus reuteri yogurt, I now sleep 9 hours every night, experience vivid dreams, and need none of these other sleep crutches to enjoy a deep and restful night of sleep. I believe that this is one effect we get with L. reuteri from the boost in oxytocin it triggers. https://drdavisinfinitehealth.com/2022/02/lactobacillus-reuteri-does-strain-matter/

We have identified dysregulation of several genera and species of bacteria in the gut and colon of both male and female Shank3 Knockout (KO) mice. Lactobacillus reuteri, a species with decreased relative abundance in the Shank3 KO mice, positively correlated with the expression of gamma-Aminobutyric acid (GABA) receptor subunits in the brain. Treatment of Shank3 KO mice with L. reuteri induced an attenuation of unsocial behavior specifically in male Shank3 mice, and a decrease in repetitive behaviors in both male and female Shank3 KO mice. Therefore, L. reuteri treatment has a sex-dependent effect on social behavior, and sex-independent effects on repetitive behaviors in Shank3 KO mice. In addition, L. reuteri treatment modifies GABA receptor gene expression and oxytocin expression in Shank3 knockout mice. We further tested if Shank3 KO mice display dysregulation in the immune response by testing the plasma levels of six key immune markers. All of the immune markers were dysregulated in both male and female Shank3 KO mice compared to WT. Of even greater interest, while three of these molecules displayed the same dysregulation among male and female mice, three of them actually displayed the opposite dysregulation among males and females. IL-10 and IFNγ increased in Shank3 mice of both sexes, while IL-1b decreased in Shank3 KO mice of both sexes. In contrast, IL-17a and TNF-a increased in male Shank3 KO mice, while they decreased in female Shank3 KO mice. To test if L. reuteri can induce changes in the immune response, we tested levels of plasma immune markers in Shank3 KO male mice after L. reuteri administration. L. reuteri administration increased all tested markers, except for the reduction of IL-17a plasma levels. https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/29787855/

Lactobacillus reuteri, a gut bacteria which is commonly found in human breast milk, promotes social behavior via the vagus nerve, which bidirectionally connects the gut and the brain. When the vagus nerve is active, it releases oxytocin, a hormone that promotes social interaction. Oxytocin is released into the reward areas of the brain where it binds to molecules called oxytocin receptors, triggering social reward. We found that when the vagus nerve connecting the brain and the gut was severed, L. reuteri could not restore social behavior in ASD mice. The scientists tried another Lactobacillus species that was also reduced in the offspring (L. johnsonii) but that did not change social behaviors. The effects of L. reuteri on social behavior are not mediated by restoring the composition of the host’s gut microbiome, which is altered in all of these ASD models. Instead, L. reuteri acts in a vagus nerve-dependent manner and rescues social interaction-induced synaptic plasticity in the ventral tegmental area of ASD mice, but not in oxytocin receptor-deficient mice. OXTR inhibition prevents L. reuteri’s effects on social behavior and VTA plasticity. L. reuteri reversed social deficits even in germ-free mice. https://medicalxpress.com/news/2018-12-microbial-based-treatment-reverses-autism-spectrum.html

 

[Mary]

For years, I relied on exhaustion, taking mega-doses of melatonin, tryptophan, and other crutches to sleep. With Lactobacillus reuteri yogurt, I now sleep 9 hours every night, experience vivid dreams, and need none of these other sleep crutches to enjoy a deep and restful night of sleep. I believe that this is one effect we get with L. reuteri from the boost in oxytocin it triggers.

Is there a certain brand of yogurt you buy to get reuteri yogurt? Or do you make your own? And if you make your own, where do you buy the reuteri to make it? Any info would be appreciated, thanks!