Urea Cycle: It's a real Pisser - Ammonia, Arginine, Ornithine, Citrulline.

[Lotus97]

Sounds like you have an important clue to work on. Remember that Mn also is the cofactor for the citric acid to isocitrate step of the Krebs cycle. So taking that much Mn may have powered the heck out of your Krebs cycle especially if that was a rate limiter. That might have explained your being overly stimulated. So lower levels may be recommended. You have to experiment. And like I said ammonia activates the NMDA receptor so if you control that better you may have less anxiety and / or pain or other NMDA related effects.

So in general, when supporting the Krebs cycle there can be too much of a good thing?

 

[Lotus97]

Swanson was having a sale on Yucca extract, but it's standardized for saponins. Since we don't know the active constituent in Yucca, it might not be a good idea to get a standardized extract. Liquid extracts are fine because their full spectrum. I bought it partially because the saponins are supposed to help with joint pain. Hopefully it helps with ammonia, but I'm also taking a capsule of the whole herb just in case.

 

[xjhuez]

Swanson was having a sale on Yucca extract, but it's standardized for saponins. Since we don't know the active constituent in Yucca, it might not be a good idea to get a standardized extract. Liquid extracts are fine because their full spectrum. I bought it partially because the saponins are supposed to help with joint pain. Hopefully it helps with ammonia, but I'm also taking a capsule of the whole herb just in case.

From a study on sheep:

Extract of the Yucca schidigera plant contain a glycofraction, which has ability to bind ammonia and saponins that has strong anti-protozoal effect.

Binding ammonia is good, obviously, but I'm not sure if the anti-protozoa effect is part of it as well, or even whether it's a good or bad thing.

This study may have some interesting info, but I'm not about to buy it.

Same here. Apparently yucca contains all kinds of interesting chemicals, including resveratrol.

 

[Jorlev]

I'm MTHFR A1298C HMZ and CBS C699T HTZ so I am concerned about ammonia.
I haven't tried Yucca pills or extracts but did just buy a root at Whole Foods. How much of the actual root do you think one would have to eat per meal to be equivalent to a pill of extract form of Yucca?

 

[UM MAN]

Jorlev, have you blood tested for ammonia?
I pee lots of sulfate and have CBS Ho and He, but my blood ammonia was well into normal range.
So ammonia may not be a concern for you....

 

[Jorlev]

Jorlev, have you blood tested for ammonia?
I pee lots of sulfate and have CBS Ho and He, but my blood ammonia was well into normal range.
So ammonia may not be a concern for you....

Haven't blood tested for ammonia yet but will shortly. Was on a lot of supplements and my Dr want me to stop and clear out so he can see results in a natural state.

Question on Yucca for those who have been on it a long time:
Obviously, I would want to take it to lower ammonia but I was reading some contradictory articles on the saponins in it.
One said it acts as surfactant and cleans the stomach lining and villi. Another said it harms the villi and is toxic.
Also, do surfactants contain sulfur? I'm trying to lower sulfur as well, being CBS C699T HTZ.

Would appreciate it if anyone with not only book knowledge by personal long term users of Yucca let me know if one should be concerned about Yucca negatives. Thanks.

Pee. S. Noticed this morning urine was a little foamy after using Yucca for the first time.

 

[Jorlev]

Haven't blood tested for ammonia yet but will shortly. Was on a lot of supplements and my Dr want me to stop and clear out so he can see results in a natural state.

Question on Yucca for those who have been on it a long time:
Obviously, I would want to take it to lower ammonia but I was reading some contradictory articles on the saponins in it.
One said it acts as surfactant and cleans the stomach lining and villi. Another said it harms the villi and is toxic.
Also, do surfactants contain sulfur? I'm trying to lower sulfur as well, being CBS C699T HTZ.

Would appreciate it if anyone with not only book knowledge by personal long term users of Yucca let me know if one should be concerned about Yucca negatives. Thanks.

Pee. S. Noticed this morning urine was a little foamy after using Yucca for the first time.

Also read it may be just certain Saponins as there are various types. I guess I'm more concerned with Yucca and perhaps Quinoa saponins.

 

[xjhuez]

I'm afraid I can't answer any of your saponin questions, as I have the same questions.

I'm not entirely sold on the safety of yucca. That said, I am sold on it's efficacy - it makes me feel noticeably better. For now I'm sticking with it, but will continue to try and learn more. If you come across anything please post it.

 

[Jorlev]

I'm afraid I can't answer any of your saponin questions, as I have the same questions.

I'm not entirely sold on the safety of yucca. That said, I am sold on it's efficacy - it makes me feel noticeably better. For now I'm sticking with it, but will continue to try and learn more. If you come across anything please post it.

How much Yucca do you take and how often? I don't have pills or extract --just bought a root and eat a slice or two with each meal. Tastes a bit like coconut to me. Curious as to what you feel an effective amount would be and if you've had any reaction to eating too much?

 

[xjhuez]

Cool - I've never seen actual yucca in a store before.

I have the Solaray 490mg capsules. I take half the contents with a normal meal and with a large protein meal I take the whole capsule.

I've not had a negative reaction at that dose. Possibly less energy/drive lately, but it's hard to say, and it could be from a dozen different things besides the yucca.

 

[UM MAN]

JORLEV, YUCCA schidigera??????

 

[Jorlev]

I know Yucca Schidigera is the one to get, but not sure. Got mine at Whole Foods. Perhaps next time I'm there I can see if someone knowledgeable can tell me. I will say that my urine is noticeably less pungent so I think the ammonia is being bound by the yucca.

Xjhuez mentions a 490mg capsule. I don't know if that's particularly concentrated but if I cut a slice off the Yucca as thick as 3 or 4 quarters, I don't know how many mg that would be but it seems like it's 5 to 8 capsules. It's a root.
I don't feel like I'm eating that much. I wonder why people some people are taking as little as a half pill.

That's why I'd really like some real life input from people who've been eating this root for some time. Would love to hear some anecdotal evidence from those with experience with it.

 

[Jorlev]

Also, I've notice that after many blood tests each time my BUN level is pretty high. That's a measure of Nitrogen in the urine. As there is nitrogen in ammonia (NH3) I wonder if this high BUN level is connected to high ammonia.

 

[xjhuez]

I wonder why people some people are taking as little as a half pill.

Through trial & error I've determined that half dose gives me the same level of effectiveness as a full dose. It's a new/unknown substance so I tend to be cautious.

My BUN was 20 as of Feb. (normal range is 6-24)

 

[Nikki]

How does OKG work?
Researchers are still scratching their heads trying to figure out how OKG works. They have observed that the two components of OKG are precursors to glutamate, which can be converted to glutamine. Glutamine plays a role in regulating protein metabolism. Ornithine is used by the body to make arginine, proline and the polyamines such as putrescine, spermine and spermidine. These play a role in successfully helping cells reproduce and helping to repair wounds. Ornithine is also a component of the urea cycle. Researchers also think that OKG decreases protein breakdown and the markers of protein degradation such as in burn injuries. They suspect that it might stimulate the release of insulin and growth hormone. And lastly; researchers report that the effects seen with OKG are seen when both ornithine and alpha-ketoglutarate are present together but not when they are used separately. 2
OKG has been studied in both human and animal models and has been shown to be beneficial in several conditions including trauma and compromised health conditions
http://www.smart-publications.com/a...tarate-OKG-promotes-glutamine-and-muscle-mass

Hi ,
I came across this site while researching for a botanical or natural supplement that would reduce ammonia as a result of the urease release by Helicobacter pylori. One of my text books Herbs and Natural Supplements -an evidence based guide by lesley Braun and Marc Cohen supported the use of l-glutamine for protecting the body from high levels of ammonia as it shuttles nitrogen. It is also involved in production of the antioxidant glutathione. As it is not very soluble or stable,absorbtion is another issue. Doses of 14g/day are well tolerated.Contraindicated in Reyes Syndrome and should be used only under professional supervision with chronic renal failure.

 

[xjhuez]

Assuming this diagram is right, I'm wondering where and by what mechanism yucca reduces ammonia?

From what little I've been able to find, yucca may simply bind with NH3 right in the large intestine, thus there's less free to be absorbed by the portal vein. Or, it actually inhibits bacteria from forming it in the first place.

 

[dbkita]

It absorbs ammonia in the gut. It will not stop the bacteria from making it.

 

[xjhuez]

It absorbs ammonia in the gut. It will not stop the bacteria from making it.

It seems to do both in ruminants.

http://www.journalofanimalscience.org/content/77/9/2554.short

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC201559/

http://www.journalofanimalscience.org/content/77/E-Suppl/1.9.full.pdf html

Specific roles of saponins in yucca and Quillaja products may involve modification of gut microbes, particularly in ruminants. Saponins suppress ruminal protozoa by binding to cholesterol in the protozoal cell membrane, causing the organism to lyse and die.

It might work differently in the human digestive tract, obviously.

 

[dbkita]

We aren't ruminants though

 

[xjhuez]

We aren't ruminants though

Yup. Neither are pigs or rats. Doesn't seem like you looked at the journal of animal science link.

I'm not sure why you're being dismissive when the evidence in other animals indicates yucca does more than simply bind ammonia.