Unnerving symptom

[perchance dreamer]

I do take plenty of sodium/potassium as salt, but struggle to tolerate Magnesium.

Have you ever tried magnesium in a bath? I use 1 cup of Epsom salts and 1 cup of magnesium chloride flakes in a bath. I soak about 15 minutes. It helps me with sleep and relaxation.

Since you seem to be sensitive to magnesium, you could try using just 1 cup of the Epsom salts or magnesium chloride at first or even 1/2 a cup and build up from there. I find magnesium chloride flakes more effective, but since it's more expensive, I combine it with the Epsom salts.

I take 4 MG of HC first thing in the morning and also 1 capsule of Dragon Herbs Super Adaptogen.

https://www.amazon.com/Dragon-Herbs...&sr=1-4&keywords=super+adaptogen+dragon+herbs

Good luck! My best advice would be to find a good integrative practitioner who can help you find the root of these problems.

 

[jesse's mom]

Please remember the way things are translated from one language to another the message can seem angry, when the intent is to get a point across.

We are all on your side @outdamnspot . The point I am always making is just go low and slow.
As always, all the best to you!

 

[WoolPippi]

Is licorice also an option or would that be considered an adaptogen?

licorice might boost your blood pressure a bit but it activates the adrenals in doing so... it's a stimulant?

sorry my frustration about your living situations came through so strongly. I wished we could sit down, draw all aspects of this problem on paper and work it out together. (also hulksmash a bit around your home!)
edit because @jesse's mom is right: I'm Dutch, we are blunt when we're invested.

my 2 cents:
- take the 5 mg HC per day.
- continue your coffee (because it makes you happy.) and vit C (because it's good for you). Magnesium, Zinc, vit D, Sodium and Kalium are important. Selenium, L-glutamine too.
- try some of those energy-saving tips I gave: eat chicken stock and egg yokes, nothing with gristle. Take lemon juice for digestive aid (especially when food makes you nauseous).
- withdraw emotionally from the jerks in your life. Make a game out of it: make a scoreboard of their predictive sayings and doings. Start scoring, amuse yourself.
- stretch and yawn, to get the lymph system working. Drink water. Need to get the waste out of your body.
- take baths with Epsom Salt (=magnesium sulphate) or just soak your feet in it.
- don't pay too much attention to moods, feelings and thoughts. Your brain chemistry is off and will be more off due to shortage or surpluses of for example Zinc, Copper, vit. D, artificial vanilla flavour (I'm listing what gives me despair thoughts, as examples. Our brain chemistry is fragile and linked to our illness and nutrients we do(n't) get.) Your brain is lying to you, don't feel the need to manage your thoughts or feelings of despair. There, that's a large chunk of chores gone. Don't try to get to the meaning of life by logic.

You have ADHD which probably means a fast working MAO enzyme: dopamine and serotonin get broken down faster than in regular people. (I have the opposite, my MAO enzymes are mostly broken. Once my excitatory neurotransmitters are triggered they stay in my brain for a long time meaning I can think and study long and am generally happy.)
take 5-HTP, it's the precursor for serotonin. It will speed up your intestine motility so you might get loose stools. But you'll feel happier. (BRB, there's a study about a supplement that ups dopamine, let me go find it: yes, L-tyrosine is supposed to up dopamine. They also gave the subject L-cysteine and Selenium so let add that to the foods to give our favourite blob of human cells in the petri-dish: you. Also: L-glutamine is easily absorbed in the gut and the amino-acid most needed.)

You can probably get away with things ADHD-people do to get their dopamine up. Ritalin? CBD-oil? See what works for them and try it. I can't make suggestions here because I have the opposite of ADHD.
I looked at solutions that autistic people deploy, that helped me.

- try to get that Relaxation Response I was talking about as often as possible. Lie down, wiggle toes, take a deep breath, feel how safe you are in that very moment. No need to think about other moments.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

@outdamnspot
Licorice is a mild adaptogen

As an adaptogen, licorice benefits the HPA axis function and the sympathoadrenal system (SAS). I frequently use it for people with adrenal insufficiency who have symptoms of fatigue, tiredness upon waking up in the morning, elevated cortisol and blood sugar levels, and frequent colds. - Winston and Maimes, Adaptogens

 

[outdamnspot]

licorice might boost your blood pressure a bit but it activates the adrenals in doing so... it's a stimulant?

sorry my frustration about your living situations came through so strongly. I wished we could sit down, draw all aspects of this problem on paper and work it out together.
edit because @jesse's mom is right: I'm Dutch, we are blunt when we're invested.

my 2 cents:
- take the 5 mg HC per day.
- continue your coffee (because it makes you happy.) and vit C (because it's good for you). Magnesium, Zinc, vit D, Sodium and Kalium are important. Selenium, L-glutamine too.
- try some of those energy-saving tips I gave: eat chicken stock and egg yokes, nothing with gristle. Take lemon juice for digestive aid (especially when food makes you nauseous).
- withdraw emotionally from the jerks in your life. Make a game out of it:
- stretch and yawn, to get the lymph system working. Drink water. Need to get the waste out of your body.
- take baths with Epsom Salt (=magnesium sulphate) or just soak your feet in it.
- don't pay too much attention to moods, feelings and thoughts. Your brain chemistry is off and will be more off due to shortage or surpluses of for example Zinc, Copper, vit. D, artificial vanilla flavour (I'm listing what gives me despair thoughts, as examples. Our brain chemistry is fragile and linked to our illness and nutrients we do(n't) get.) Your brain is lying to you, don't feel the need to manage your thoughts or feelings of despair. There, that's a large chunk of chores gone. Don't try to get to the meaning of life by logic.

You have ADHD which probably means a fast working MAO enzyme: dopamine and serotonin get broken down faster than in regular people. (I have the opposite, my MAO enzymes are mostly broken. Once my excitatory neurotransmitters are triggered they stay in my brain for a long time meaning I can think and study long and am generally happy.)
take 5-HTP, it's the precursor for serotonin. It will speed up your intestine motility so you might get loose stools. But you'll feel happier. (BRB, there's a study about a supplement that ups dopamine, let me go find it: yes, L-tyrosine is supposed to up dopamine. They also gave the subject L-cysteine and Selenium so let add that to the foods to give our favourite blob of human cells in the petri-dish: you. Also: L-glutamine is easily absorbed in the gut and the amino-acid most needed.)

You can probably get away with things ADHD-people do to get their dopamine up. Ritalin? CBD-oil? See what works for them and try it. I can't make suggestions here because I have the opposite of ADHD.
I looked at solutions that autistic people deploy, that helped me.

- try to get that Relaxation Response I was talking about as often as possible. Lie down, wiggle toes, take a deep breath, feel how safe you are in that very moment. No need to think about other moments.

It's no problem, just a miscommunication . As I say, I really appreciate the help. I just get defensive sometimes because deep down I know a lot of my habits are awful and I get guilty knowing that I am probably partially responsible for the severity of my illness due to my own recklessness .. but then it's all been a response to my living situation, e.g. doctors or people online lecture me about my sleeping habits, but it's different if I'm doing it to escape my family and protect myself from noise etc. It's like damned if you do, damned if you don't. And I think some part of me does hope the HC would be a magical stimulant that gives me the energy to escape this environment (because everyone with C-PTSD wants to escape), but I have adjusted my expectations as best I can.

The worry is, I am just so frail. Today was very bad .. for example, after I woke up, I stood up to put some blankets away in my closet, and that was an instant crash, I thought I would faint, and it took hours to recover. Things haven't really been that bad before, but I've had a few days like that lately. So, as much as I would like to try HC, my brain and intuition keep telling me it's 'bad' or 'dangerous' because I am already very sick and weak and I worry (anxiety/catastrophizing) that it might kill me or land me in hospital. But I guess trying a single 5mg dose won't kill me? I just can't find many experiences reports, even here, of people in a severe/bedridden state who tried it .. and there were a few very negative ones that did scare me. It would be a lot easier if I could have a doctor's supervision but that just isn't possible; one doctor really wanted to give it to me but said his license could be taken away.

You also didn't answer this (and may not know) but I also wasn't sure if it being slightly passed the expiry is an issue?

I think if it did help me (fingers crossed) and stress response, it would be a lot easier to implement the other suggestions you offer regarding food, relaxation etc. Because right now being stuck in a low cortisol -- and, even worse, low adrenaline too -- state is like being a panicked, headless chicken. It's difficult to even think or organize or do anything and everything feels terrifying and overwhelming, even something as simple as sitting at my computer to type this response. I have had a few days recently where my cortisol does increase (usually triggered by being sick, like a food reaction) and it's a world of difference ... everything just becomes completely manageable emotionally.

Thanks again

 

[jesse's mom]

@outdamnspot , I don't think that a med being just a few months past expiration would do much more then make them weaker. I will check to make sure when I can, but my granddaughter is here and at 2 years old keeps taking me off task.

@YippeeKi YOW !! might know if she is still online.

 

[jesse's mom]

Aslo @outdamnspot , the presence practice that was suggested could be really helpful to you in my opinion. Feeling the safety of being in your bed and putting your attention in a place in the body that is not reacting, like your toes... or maybe one toe. Then not forcing the breath, but just watching it...

 

[WoolPippi]

You also didn't answer this (and may not know) but I also wasn't sure if it being slightly passed the expiry is an issue?

I don't think that's a problem.

With this hormone, it will take 45 minutes in your stomach to be converted to cortisol.
Effects will come 45 minutes after ingestion,

unless you keep part of the pill in your mouth (through the mouth lining it travels faster to your liver than via the stomach. Your liver turns HC into Cortisol. It's better to swallow though, HC in the mouth rots your teeth faster than cola. We use pill-under-tongue as emergency, when a dose has to hit the blood fast, like when I've been hit by a car or when I've forgotten a dose and stub my toe)

1,5 hour after you've taken it you'll have the peak in your blood. If you take a tiny amount this will be a gentle peak. If you take more than is good for you you get a not-gentle peak: it will make you sweat and full of action, heart palpitations perhaps. A wet mouth. Wanting to jump perhaps.

As a side note: having a not-gentle peak once in a while when on HC is not a big problem. Having them often is a big problem.
Taking way too much the first time you take HC is a big problem too. Because of the risk of shut down of adrenals. That's why not 20 mg the first time.
But you'll be ok with 2,5 mg or 5 mg per day. You can divide this dose up and take throughout the day.

Right, we were at "peak in blood levels 1,5 hours after ingestion". Then the effects will start to wear off.
in 4 hours after ingestion blood levels will be half or less.
In 8 hours it will be gone.

In your case and many in whom adrenals are stretched effects can linger up to 24 hours. So go slow. Don't take a new dose too fast after the first one. See how your body reacts. Perhaps jot down some observations?

I think you'll be alright taking 2,5 or 5 mg per day for a week. Just to try it out.
But : I'm not a professional. I don't want responsibility, this is all you. I'm just giving you information because I think you're going to do it anyway and I want you to be as safe as possible doing it.

Your body may have different times from the 4 and 8 hours I mention. Because of your illness and because of your genetic make up.
It's the liver that breaks down and filters away cortisol from the blood, you may have enzymes that work faster or slower than other people. The waste will leave your body through the bile (and then poo). That's why you need water, some protein, bile, a bit of lazy stretching and yawning and a bowel movement. Your adrenals need vit C, protein, fat and salt. Your whole body needs vit D, Magnesium and Zinc.

So the 4 hours and 8 hours mark may be sooner or later in you.
The 45 minutes is pretty much a given.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

@outdamnspot

I'm just giving you information because I think you're going to do it anyway and I want you to be as safe as possible doing it.

I hear the yearning, too.

As far as I know, being a few months out of expiry isn't a big deal. Expiry dates are set very conservatively in order to protect the manufacturer and the seller, so I wouldn't even assume that it will be weaker as a result. So start with @WoolPippi 's 2.5 - 5 mg dosing, yes?

In fact, start with the 2.5mg dose and see what that does before boosting to 5.0mg.

Is licorice also an option or would that be considered an adaptogen?

And if you start on the HC, DON'T TAKE LICORICE..... it'll potentiate the HC and you'll have no idea what caused what, and the what may be unpleasant.

 

[outdamnspot]

I don't think that's a problem.

With this hormone, it will take 45 minutes in your stomach to be converted to cortisol.
Effects will come 45 minutes after ingestion,

unless you keep part of the pill in your mouth (through the mouth lining it travels faster to your liver than via the stomach. Your liver turns HC into Cortisol. It's better to swallow though, HC in the mouth rots your teeth faster than cola. We use pill-under-tongue as emergency, when a dose has to hit the blood fast, like when I've been hit by a car or when I've forgotten a dose and stub my toe)

1,5 hour after you've taken it you'll have the peak in your blood. If you take a tiny amount this will be a gentle peak. If you take more than is good for you you get a not-gentle peak: it will make you sweat and full of action, heart palpitations perhaps. A wet mouth. Wanting to jump perhaps.

As a side note: having a not-gentle peak once in a while when on HC is not a big problem. Having them often is a big problem.
Taking way too much the first time you take HC is a big problem too. Because of the risk of shut down of adrenals. That's why not 20 mg the first time.
But you'll be ok with 2,5 mg or 5 mg per day. You can divide this dose up and take throughout the day.

Right, we were at "peak in blood levels 1,5 hours after ingestion". Then the effects will start to wear off.
in 4 hours after ingestion blood levels will be half or less.
In 8 hours it will be gone.

In your case and many in whom adrenals are stretched effects can linger up to 24 hours. So go slow. Don't take a new dose too fast after the first one. See how your body reacts. Perhaps jot down some observations?

I think you'll be alright taking 2,5 or 5 mg per day for a week. Just to try it out.
But : I'm not a professional. I don't want responsibility, this is all you. I'm just giving you information because I think you're going to do it anyway and I want you to be as safe as possible doing it.

Your body may have different times from the 4 and 8 hours I mention. Because of your illness and because of your genetic make up.
It's the liver that breaks down and filters away cortisol from the blood, you may have enzymes that work faster or slower than other people. The waste will leave your body through the bile (and then poo). That's why you need water, some protein, bile, a bit of lazy stretching and yawning and a bowel movement. Your adrenals need vit C, protein, fat and salt. Your whole body needs vit D, Magnesium and Zinc.

So the 4 hours and 8 hours mark may be sooner or later in you.
The 45 minutes is pretty much a given.

Thanks, sorry I don't want to put the responsibility on you, and you're right I will likely try anyway so I appreciate the guidance However, because I have OCD and do struggle with uncertainty/needing reassurance (on top of all the other issues), and presumably because you have been on the boards longer and are more knowledgeable, I am curious if you have read reports from people in severe/bedridden states who tried HC and were okay with it? Is this the kind of state you were in (with the severe weakness, OI, etc.) when you tried it? You say it should be more nourishing and not act like a stimulant (akin to glandular's etc.) and I trust that, but there is still the lingering paranoia, given how I react badly to everything else.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

@outdamnspot
Hang in there. Try to wait til you hear back from @WoolPippi whose knowledge and character, insofar as I know it, I would absolutely trust.

Patience is hard in OCD and I know how difficult this is, but balance that driving force to do SOMETHING against the possible repercussions of doing the wrong something.

Focus on your inner strength. Believe me, it's there. Think about everything you've survived, without going into a lot of mental detail or perseveration, and know that you're going to get thru this, too.

I see my inner healing power, or inner strength, or inner-anything I need to encourage and/or increase, as a small ball of brightly glowing golden light, and as I focus on that, the ball expands and gradually, slowly, expands form being a ball to inhabiting the entirety of my body and brain. Focus on that, block out all else.

As thoughts, negative or otherwise, occur to you, don't fight them. Accept that they're there and let them drift on thru. When you don't engage with them, they'll get bored and slowly evaporate. Keep your focus on that golden, glowing, pulsing, sphere of light.

Keep practicing this discipline and it'll get easier and easier to expand the light from the size of a ping-pong ball to something that floods thru your entire system, gently taking it over, soothing and healing it.

Hang in there.

 

[Kenshin]

This has been very helpful info for me right now, I'm doing enforced rest for some weeks and gaining some benefits by getting into the parasympathetic mode.

So far:
- My mood has improved aswell as mental clarity.
- Digestion slightly improved.
- Pain is reduced in a small but significant way.
- I believe my hormones are more balanced.

I'm curious in trying some of the beef supplements (Would the calogen one be good for someone with EDS? Out of curisity. I have somewhat loose joints but I'm pretty sure I have M.E not EDS.)

 

[WoolPippi]

Thanks, sorry I don't want to put the responsibility on you, and you're right I will likely try anyway so I appreciate the guidance However, because I have OCD and do struggle with uncertainty/needing reassurance (on top of all the other issues), and presumably because you have been on the boards longer and are more knowledgeable, I am curious if you have read reports from people in severe/bedridden states who tried HC and were okay with it? Is this the kind of state you were in (with the severe weakness, OI, etc.) when you tried it? You say it should be more nourishing and not act like a stimulant (akin to glandular's etc.) and I trust that, but there is still the lingering paranoia, given how I react badly to everything else.

am I right in thinking that OCD likes a coherent explanation of what's happening and what is likely going to happen?

in that case: your idea that HC is a stimulant is wrong. It is a replacement. It replaces the hormones your adrenals fail to make in adequate quantities.

In the last phase before a total adrenal burnout, which is where you are, adrenals are making cortisol in an erratic fashion. They cycle through making not enough and way too much, several times a day. Especially when combined with stimulants and stressors (pain, coffee, herbs, ashwaganda, mental stress, physical cold, adrenaline, ME)

So when you take a small dose of HC (2,5 - 5 mg in a day) in this state a few things happen:
- when it complements what your body is lacking it will feel soothing
- if it surplusses what your body is making you will feel activated, stimulated, caffeinated
- it raises blood pressure, making you feel clearer in the head

in each case the effects will subside in a few hours. (Unless you take 20 mg because then you knock out your adrenals)

the relaxation things mentioned in this thread are a medical treatment. They affect your stress hormonal system, the HPA-axis (Hypothalamus - Pituitary - Adrenal system). It's not "oh poor Kiwi, just lie back and relax". It's meant to induce a scientific measurable change in your nervous system, the Relaxation Response. This will get your nervous system out of Fight or Flight. This will directly relief your adrenals. You need to do this as many times per day as possible. Start now.

My own case is the only report I can tell you about. And the part you're asking about is hazy but yes I was in that state. I wish @Hip would weigh in.

I was bedridden, brainfogged to the point that I could not remember my own name during the day. I was wired too but was not as feverish in my thinking as you are. My home situation was peaceful. But I had to figure out my illness myself. My partner and my doctor were passive.

In the mornings I could not lift my head and my husband had to put something salty in my mouth before I could lift my head or speak. It took tremendous willpower to lift an arm and reach for a glass of salted water on the bed stand. Or knock on the wood to let my husband know he should come up and hand me the glass.

These symptoms indicate blood pressure problems (no salt and no glucose to the brain) which is adrenal caused. Effects from HC were therefore soothing and constructive: more glucose to the brain.
For other parts it made me extra wired. But I can't pinpoint what came from HC and what came from other things. For example I took mB12 and methylated folic acid and these were way too powerful for me (because of DNA mutations in methylation cycle). Also I react strongly to Zinc.
So it'll be hard to say: "this comes from that."

I still feel weird with you taking HC without medical supervision. But, having experience with numerous hormonal supplements for years now, I am confident that you will be alright as long as you follow the slogan for all hormones: "go low. go slow." Do not take more than 5 mg per day.

You can see it as an experiment, for one week, to see what it does for you.
Observe your body. If you don't feel good on it be assured that it will leave your body in a few hours.
2,5 mg per day is low. Once every other day is slow. You want to do 5 mg, every day. That's ok by me, that's still considered low and slow. But don't go higher and don't go more frequent.

 

[WoolPippi]

I have to work for a couple of days now and cannot spend an hour every day writing on this thread. I will be reading though.

 

[Hip]

@outdamnspot, I am not really clear what question you are asking in this thread.

But I should mention that taking up to around 20 mg of hydrocortisone in total daily is considered low dose. Normal dose hydrocortisone would be around 80 mg daily and higher.

I would not think that such low doses will have any major effects on your natural production of cortisol. When normal doses of corticosteroids are used medically, the body will start to reduce the amount of cortisol produced after around 2 weeks or so of continued corticosteroid use. This means that you need to taper-off these normal-dose corticosteroid drugs, rather than abruptly stopping, in order to give your adrenal glands time to readjust and increase cortisol output.

However, I would imagine that on a low-dose regimen, this will not be a major issue. Though one study on low-dose hydrocortisone for ME/CFS found that in some patients it suppressed adrenal glucocorticoid responsiveness.

One study found low-dose hydrocortisone (5 to 20 mg daily) reduces fatigue in ME/CFS. Ref: 1

Although even low doses of corticosteroids can increase the risk of psychiatric disorders and other diseases:

even at low and physiological doses, corticosteroids increase the risk for several disorders, such as psychiatric disorders [8–11], osteoporosis [12], myopathy [13], glaucoma [14], metabolic disorders [14, 15], sleep disturbances [16] and cardiovascular diseases [17, 18].

Source: Adrenal fatigue does not exist: a systematic review.

Pantothenic acid (vitamin B5) may to some extent be used as a substitute for cortisol:

Dumm and Ralli showed, in fact, that pantothenic acid could substitute in some way for the adrenals: rats whose adrenals had been removed, if fed large amounts of pantothenic acid, could swim in cold water as long as rats with intact adrenals but without pantothenic acid.

Most studies have shown ME/CFS patients have lower cortisol levels throughout the 24 hour cycle: this study, this study and this study found a cortisol was significantly lower in ME/CFS patients across the whole day.

This study found the cortisol awakening response (CAR) is also lower in ME/CFS.

When I drink coffee, there's no 'boost'.

Unlike stimulants such as amphetamines, which work on noradrenaline (norepinephrine), coffee's stimulant effects arise from caffeine's blocking of the adenosine receptors. So it's the adenosine system which is involved.

Levels of adenosine in the brain normally build up during the day, which is one of the reason's you become tired at the end of the day and ready for sleep (adenosine's stimulation of the adenosine receptors increases tiredness). Caffeine reduces tiredness by blocking the adenosine receptors.

Not sure if this info is of any use.

 

[WoolPippi]

@outdamnspot,
But I should mention that taking up to around 20 mg of hydrocortisone in total daily is considered low dose. Normal dose hydrocortisone would be around 80 mg daily and higher.

you should also mention these are full replacement doses, taken by people who have no adrenal output and were started on a dose of 5 mg per day, working their way up to where they needed to be. Under medical supervision.

Outdamnspot is about to take HC without supervision, without full knowledge of the systems involved and without blood test information.

.
.
.
.
btw, 80 mg per day is way way high. Normal dose for people without adrenal function is 17,5 mg to 35 mg per day. (Addison's disease). Only when there is a stressor do people take extra doses and occasional come to 60 or 80 mg per day. For example the emergency dose for things like an operation or adrenal crisis is 100 mg. Another example is Dusty from Addissonsupport.com who ran marathons in the heat on 68 mg per day and she now admits that was way too high.
At doses of 20 mg per day and over there's a lot of osteoporosis because there's additional need for calcium in the cells.

 

[YippeeKi YOW !!]

@WoolPippi
I'm seriously considering building an altar to you . Your breadth and range of knowledge are awe-inspiring, as well as your compassion and generosity in sharing that knowledge.

 

[Hip]

Outdamnspot is about to take HC without supervision, without full knowledge of the systems involved and without blood test information.

Not may people with ME/CFS have access to medical supervision for their disease, since there are very few doctors that treat ME/CFS, and most of them are in the US. Thus patients often have to become their own doctors. Of course I am wary about using corticosteroids even at low doses, but I've still experimented with them. You're right to raise a note of caution about corticosteroids though.

I've tried low-dose hydrocortisone for a few days, and also have tried one-off prednisone doses around 20 mg, which one forum member found if taken just before physical exertion completely prevents PEM occurring. He uses one-off prednisolone doses of 20 mg once every week, which allows him to go to the gym and do an intense cardiovascular workout without getting PEM, even though he is a severe patient who is normally bedbound.

Due to taking one-off corticosteroids weekly, he was able to do so much exercise that he actually cured his POTS after one year (exercise is good for POTS, though normally bad for ME/CFS). See here.

btw, 80 mg per day is way way high. Normal dose for people without adrenal function is 17,5 mg to 35 mg per day. (Addison's disease).

80 mg of hydrocortisone (which is equivalent to 20 mg of prednisone or prednisolone) is not particularly high. If you look at the doses of prednisone used medically for short-term treatment, it is in the range of 5 to 60 mg per day (see here). 60 mg of prednisone = 240 mg hydrocortisone. But at these normal doses, steroids are used for a short-term treatment.

When ME/CFS patients use normal doses of corticosteroids for extended periods (eg weeks or months), they feel much better initially but often get worse in the long term, probably as a result of the immunosuppressive effects of these drugs allowing the underlying viral infections to proliferate.



One trick you can try with corticosteroids is adding low doses of the over-the-counter drug theophylline, which greatly potentiates the anti-inflammatory effects of corticosteroids:

Low concentrations of theophylline markedly potentiate the antiinflammatory effects of corticosteroids in vitro, with a potentiation of 100-fold to 1,000-fold (60), and this may underlie the benefit of low-dose theophylline added to low or high doses of inhaled corticosteroids seen in clinical studies of patients with asthma

Source: Theophylline: New Perspectives for an Old Drug.

So adding theophylline to your corticosteroid regimen may allow you to get the same benefits but at lower doses of steroids. In this study of adding theophylline to the corticosteroid regimen of asthma patients, they used 250 mg of theophylline daily.

Theophylline also has a vasoconstriction effect, and is thus useful for POTS, to reduce blood pooling in the legs on standing.

At doses of 20 mg per day and over there's a lot of osteoporosis because there's additional need for calcium in the cells.

That's interesting. Though I guess that's only going to be a potential issue if you use low-dose corticosteroids for many years.

 

[outdamnspot]

@outdamnspot, I am not really clear what question you are asking in this thread.

Sorry for not being clear. I was wondering if you were aware of any risks of patients in a severe/bedridden state trying corticosteroids, i.e. if you had heard of them precipitating further crashes?

I was also wondering what your opinion is on the fact that the drug is 2 months expired; as I mentioned earlier in the thread; that isn't a big concern to me, but as I said, I also live upstairs and it gets quite humid in Australia. It's been stored in a dark closet but I was also wondering if either of those factors are a risk, or more likely to just make it less effective.

 

[outdamnspot]

am I right in thinking that OCD likes a coherent explanation of what's happening and what is likely going to happen?

in that case: your idea that HC is a stimulant is wrong. It is a replacement. It replaces the hormones your adrenals fail to make in adequate quantities.

In the last phase before a total adrenal burnout, which is where you are, adrenals are making cortisol in an erratic fashion. They cycle through making not enough and way too much, several times a day. Especially when combined with stimulants and stressors (pain, coffee, herbs, ashwaganda, mental stress, physical cold, adrenaline, ME)

So when you take a small dose of HC (2,5 - 5 mg in a day) in this state a few things happen:
- when it complements what your body is lacking it will feel soothing
- if it surplusses what your body is making you will feel activated, stimulated, caffeinated
- it raises blood pressure, making you feel clearer in the head

in each case the effects will subside in a few hours. (Unless you take 20 mg because then you knock out your adrenals)

the relaxation things mentioned in this thread are a medical treatment. They affect your stress hormonal system, the HPA-axis (Hypothalamus - Pituitary - Adrenal system). It's not "oh poor Kiwi, just lie back and relax". It's meant to induce a scientific measurable change in your nervous system, the Relaxation Response. This will get your nervous system out of Fight or Flight. This will directly relief your adrenals. You need to do this as many times per day as possible. Start now.

My own case is the only report I can tell you about. And the part you're asking about is hazy but yes I was in that state. I wish @Hip would weigh in.

I was bedridden, brainfogged to the point that I could not remember my own name during the day. I was wired too but was not as feverish in my thinking as you are. My home situation was peaceful. But I had to figure out my illness myself. My partner and my doctor were passive.

In the mornings I could not lift my head and my husband had to put something salty in my mouth before I could lift my head or speak. It took tremendous willpower to lift an arm and reach for a glass of salted water on the bed stand. Or knock on the wood to let my husband know he should come up and hand me the glass.

These symptoms indicate blood pressure problems (no salt and no glucose to the brain) which is adrenal caused. Effects from HC were therefore soothing and constructive: more glucose to the brain.
For other parts it made me extra wired. But I can't pinpoint what came from HC and what came from other things. For example I took mB12 and methylated folic acid and these were way too powerful for me (because of DNA mutations in methylation cycle). Also I react strongly to Zinc.
So it'll be hard to say: "this comes from that."

I still feel weird with you taking HC without medical supervision. But, having experience with numerous hormonal supplements for years now, I am confident that you will be alright as long as you follow the slogan for all hormones: "go low. go slow." Do not take more than 5 mg per day.

You can see it as an experiment, for one week, to see what it does for you.
Observe your body. If you don't feel good on it be assured that it will leave your body in a few hours.
2,5 mg per day is low. Once every other day is slow. You want to do 5 mg, every day. That's ok by me, that's still considered low and slow. But don't go higher and don't go more frequent.

Yes, OCD does favor coherent explanations (where possible) so thanks again. I think you've given me enough information to go on and make my decision now. The state you were in sounds even worse than mine, to be honest, because I am capable of walking around, speaking, showering, cooking etc. but these things just place a tremendous stress on my body.

I have actually had a turnaround the past few days by adding peanut butter into my diet -- I guess I was starving myself by only eating meat, and my body was probably craving fat/carbs, though finding a source I could tolerate was proving difficult. This may not last, so I won't rule out HC but I may not need it as urgently..