Unfolded Protein Response and A Possible Treatment for CFS

[Ema]

Someone in a different group that I belong to just brought up "cori cycle" in a thread where endoplasmic reticulum was being discussed, and I found this: " the formation of glucose, occurs in the lumen of the endoplasmic reticulum". The glucose is formed from lactate. If this cycle doesn't occur, lactic acid builds up in the muscles.

I wonder how we know if the Cori cycle is working optimally? Or how to support it, similar to how we can support the TCA cycle with nutrients?

 

[mariovitali]

I wonder how we know if the Cori cycle is working optimally? Or how to support it, similar to how we can support the TCA cycle with nutrients?

I have to look about the Cori Cycle, never heard of this before. Usually when i come across a new Topic, i run it through my software to see how many "hits" it has across the information i have saved. So "Sepsis" and Human Leukocyte Antigen (HLAs) have many hits. Cori Cycle doesn't but i will have a look at this.

Basically what we want to be doing regarding ER and the Unfolded Protein response (Hypothesis) is to help the Proper protein folding of Proteins to the ER. From my Research and to the best of my knowledge some ways to do this is as follows :

-N Acetyl Glucosamine Supplementation
-Butyrate Supplementation
-Avoidance of Inhibition of Mevalonate Pathway

Again i do not imply that you should supplement/do any of the above without Doctor's supervision and consent.

I received an email, where someone is asking me why N-Acetyl Glucosamine stops working
for him after some time. I believe that the reason is simply because this person did not account for all other issues (ie Biological Pathways such as Phagocytosis, Detoxification, Inflammatory Pathways) that need support.

Please read the following snasphot, the last paragraph is the most important and this is exactly what we are trying to do with the personalised regimen :

 

[Violeta]

It's commonly known as the lactic acid cycle. I would never had thought to look it up with respect to ER had it not been mentioned in a thread that was discussing ER.

I don't know if this is important to anyone here, this might just be a tangent. Reading about it at this link, http://imed.stanford.edu/curriculum/session4/content/10-Gluconeogenesis.pdf makes me realize how lacking in knowledge I am.

Now I am wondering how this relates to diabetic acidosis, maybe neuropathy, just endless possibilities, which is funny because a Chinese lady I used to talk to would always tie my issues back to the liver.

That pdf is nice, @mariovitali , where is that from?

I haven't been keeping up with this thread, I will have to see what new stuff you have found.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cori_cycle

 

[wastwater]

If there were unfolded protein present would the immune system target this
And article on Parkinson's suggest it might

 

[CCC]

This came up on another forum. i thought it might be helpful for those of us who have never heard of TUCDA before:

http://drjaydavidson.com/tudca-lyme-disease/
http://drjaydavidson.com/tudca-lyme-disease/
I thought the explanation was nice and clear, and so might be relevant even for people without Lyme. A few references scattered in there too.

 

[mariovitali]

@CCC

This is good info however we want to be looking at real data under strictly controllled conditions.

Unfortunately, despite evidence sent out to many Researchers about possible Liver involvement and also the study by Hanson et. al for the existence of markers in ME/CFS Patients suggesting Liver Disease / Hepatotoxicity, nothing has been done yet to rule out Liver Disease on a greater scale of ME/CFS Patients.

 

[Eastman]

Unfortunately, despite evidence sent out to many Researchers about possible Liver involvement and also the study by Hanson et. al for the existence of markers in ME/CFS Patients suggesting Liver Disease / Hepatotoxicity, nothing has been done yet to rule out Liver Disease on a greater scale of ME/CFS Patients.

In contrast, the role of the liver seems to be better recognised in Alzheimer's, a disease I consider to be a "cousin" of ME.

Deficient Liver Biosynthesis of Docosahexaenoic Acid Correlates with Cognitive Impairment in Alzheimer's Disease

Peripheral reduction of β‐amyloid is sufficient to reduce brain β‐amyloid: Implications for Alzheimer's disease

Withania somnifera reverses Alzheimer's disease pathology by enhancing low-density lipoprotein receptor-related protein in liver

Non-alcoholic fatty liver disease induces signs of Alzheimer’s disease (AD) in wild-type mice and accelerates pathological signs of AD in an AD model

Impact of diabetes mellitus and chronic liver disease on the incidence of dementia and all-cause mortality among patients with dementia

 

[xrayspex]

In contrast, the role of the liver seems to be better recognised in Alzheimer's, a disease I consider to be a "cousin" of ME.

Deficient Liver Biosynthesis of Docosahexaenoic Acid Correlates with Cognitive Impairment in Alzheimer's Disease

Peripheral reduction of β‐amyloid is sufficient to reduce brain β‐amyloid: Implications for Alzheimer's disease

Withania somnifera reverses Alzheimer's disease pathology by enhancing low-density lipoprotein receptor-related protein in liver

Non-alcoholic fatty liver disease induces signs of Alzheimer’s disease (AD) in wild-type mice and accelerates pathological signs of AD in an AD model

Impact of diabetes mellitus and chronic liver disease on the incidence of dementia and all-cause mortality among patients with dementia

I have non-alcoholic fatty liver disease...any advice on how to treat our livers naturally? not a fan of milk thistle (too fast of detox for me not happy camper)

 

[mariovitali]

I have non-alcoholic fatty liver disease...any advice on how to treat our livers naturally? not a fan of milk thistle (too fast of detox for me not happy camper)

According to my hypothesis, a personalised regimen is needed. Since you have NAFLD, perhaps you could talk to your Doctor about getting a Fibroscan.

 

[Eastman]

I have non-alcoholic fatty liver disease...any advice on how to treat our livers naturally? not a fan of milk thistle (too fast of detox for me not happy camper)

The following paper concluded that "adherence to a MedDiet supplemented with certain bioactive compounds and combined with physical exercise may help in the management of liver disease".

Mediterranean Diet and Multi-Ingredient-Based Interventions for the Management of Non-Alcoholic Fatty Liver Disease

Specific nutrients were also looked at in the following papers.

The role of nutraceuticals for the treatment of non‐alcoholic fatty liver disease

Nutritional therapy for nonalcoholic fatty liver disease

 

[Violeta]

I have non-alcoholic fatty liver disease...any advice on how to treat our livers naturally? not a fan of milk thistle (too fast of detox for me not happy camper)

Choline is a good starter for NAFLD.

 

[xrayspex]

Choline is a good starter for NAFLD.

do you think I can find a source that would be tolerable if I didnt respond well to xo bile--tried that a few years ago but made my stomach sort of upset......I don't tend to have great luck with supplements

 

[xrayspex]

According to my hypothesis, a personalised regimen is needed. Since you have NAFLD, perhaps you could talk to your Doctor about getting a Fibroscan.

looked that up--says we don't have that in the states? there are some really lame things about our mainstream healthcare here!

 

[Violeta]

do you think I can find a source that would be tolerable if I didnt respond well to xo bile--tried that a few years ago but made my stomach sort of upset......I don't tend to have great luck with supplements

Yes, choline bitartrate might be easier to handle. If you look up Chris Masterjohn you will see a lot of blogs about NAFLD. Polyunsaturated fats, especially corn oil, are really bad for it. Choline and he says green tea, too, are good for it. I don't have such good luck with green tea, but choline bitartrate works well. Some people use lecithin, but that bothers me.

 

[mariovitali]

@Violeta @xrayspex

Choline deficiency is not good for NAFLD. I also confirm that Green tea was not good for me either for some unknown reason.

If my memory serves me right, fructose is one of the worst things for NAFLD.

 

[Gondwanaland]

do you think I can find a source that would be tolerable if I didnt respond well to xo bile--tried that a few years ago but made my stomach sort of upset......I don't tend to have great luck with supplements

If you tolerate, you could eat omeletts with vegetables (broccoli, tomatoes, whatever you tolerate). Egg yolk is a very good source of choline. Other sources here.

Having it in whole foods will prevent inducing other deficiencies.

 

[xrayspex]

Yes, choline bitartrate might be easier to handle. If you look up Chris Masterjohn you will see a lot of blogs about NAFLD. Polyunsaturated fats, especially corn oil, are really bad for it. Choline and he says green tea, too, are good for it. I don't have such good luck with green tea, but choline bitartrate works well. Some people use lecithin, but that bothers me.

thanks--yes like you and mariovitali my body doesn't seem to get stoked about green tea (but I miss black tea---used to love it---but like all caffeine had to stop---nowadays its not only that Ii get wired from it but it brings on pain later, a big motivator for me to not do a behavior). For some reason I could never stick with lecithin either, I like the taste of it but i think there was always some side effect, can't recall what

 

[xrayspex]

If you tolerate, you could eat omeletts with vegetables (broccoli, tomatoes, whatever you tolerate). Egg yolk is a very good source of choline. Other sources here.

Having it in whole foods will prevent inducing other deficiencies.

thanks, yes I do like to eat or drink my nutrition as much as possible these days. I wish I could have omelette....developed an egg intolerance over the years....ruins me for rest of day once it breaks down in me.....garlic does that too so made me wonder if its something to do with sulfur. But at any rate I will explore other food options too

 

[dannybex]

@Violeta @xrayspex

Choline deficiency is not good for NAFLD. I also confirm that Green tea was not good for me either for some unknown reason. If my memory serves me right, fructose is one of the worst things for NAFLD.

Yes, I wish I had known about the choline connection 4-5 years ago...just learned about it recently. I'm skin and bones (or at least it feels that way) except for my 4-month 'pregnant' belly / fatty liver, which was a result of too much carbs (including sugar/fructose, even in small amounts). They gave me temporary energy, but in the long run, not a good trade off.

Anyway, I've been finally able to increase eggs -- couldn't tolerate them for 10 years -- and eggs are a rich, natural source of choline. Also I'm now able to tolerate a mild kimchi, which has finally, finally helped return my stool to a normal color. In fact it's the darkest it's been in probably 20 years.

 

[mariovitali]

@dannybex

If you had light-colored stools then this could mean that you had Liver / Cholestasis issues. If possible, talk to your Doctor to get a Total Bile Acids test and a Fibroscan.