Unfolded Protein Response and A Possible Treatment for CFS

[brenda]

I stopped choline bit. as l was feeling it was not helping sorry can't be more specific and ordered some inositol which l started yesterday at 125 mg which l think has done something good to my bladder as l am peeing better after having inflammation there and low output at night though wanting to go. However l woke up with a nightmare and wondered if anyone else had this? I missed it today and will take 65 gms tomorrow.

 

[skwag]

I stopped choline bit. as l was feeling it was not helping sorry can't be more specific and ordered some inositol which l started yesterday at 125 mg which l think has done something good to my bladder as l am peeing better after having inflammation there and low output at night though wanting to go. However l woke up with a nightmare and wondered if anyone else had this? I missed it today and will take 65 gms tomorrow.

Hi brenda,

I also have mixed feelings about choline bitartrate. I just started a trial of citricoline today, so no results yet, but I'll post them here if I find anything. Here's an interesting thread on the citicoline topic:

Anyone else taking Citicoline?

I also intend to give Alpha GPC a trial as well. It is quite interesting how these alternative forms of choline feed into different intermediate steps in choline related pathways, and therefor we might expect very different reactions from them.

I've been taking at least 750 mg of inositol a day, and I have also noticed less general inflammation, including bladder. Because I'm taking so many other things I can't say it is the inositol that is responsible. I have not had any nightmares, though.

 

[Violeta]

I hoped that by the time I got back to this thread someone would have stated or asked: WTF does all this mean,@mariovitali ? do you know?? does anyone else? Is there something practical I can take away from this? thx.

My main takeaway from this thread is that oxidative stress is a very very very important issue and a lot lot lot of people would do well to figure out what causes it and how to relieve it.

 

[Violeta]

Oxidative stress! Low pH! Your body is lacking in hydrogen, the "H" part of pH! Which means you are probably acidic. So you have ROS floating around causing problems. If you raise your pH by adding hydrogen, it neutralizes the ROS by turning it into H2O! Radical, isn't it?

 

[Gondwanaland]

My main takeaway from this thread is that oxidative stress is a very very very important issue and a lot lot lot of people would do well to figure out what causes it and how to relieve it.

Oxidative stress! Low pH! Your body is lacking in hydrogen, the "H" part of pH! Which means you are probably acidic. So you have ROS floating around causing problems. If you raise your pH by adding hydrogen, it neutralizes the ROS by turning it into H2O! Radical, isn't it?

I don't know how to link a tweet here, but this morning I found this interesting:
https://twitter.com/gerdosi (his tweets of September 13, 2015)

 

[Gondwanaland]

Can you explain a bit more what "intolerant' means? What symptoms do you have?

-Have you tried Methylation supplements B12+P5P+Metafolin ?
-How about Choline? Can you tolerate it?
-Have you tried Taurine at all?

Mario, I just don't know how to reply. It seems that my brain is getteing mushier by the minute these days
http://drknews.com/poor-brain-funct...of-persistent-thyroid-symptoms-in-hashimotos/

 

[ahmo]

@Gondwanaland

 

[mariovitali]

@Gondwanaland Sorry to hear that..Hang in there, you will feel better. Whatever happens to me now after all of these years is a miracle...and you can make it happen too.

@all

See how FMN matches with MANY CFS Topics. FMN appears to be a key ingredient of the solution :

 

[Gondwanaland]

@all

See how FMN matches with MANY CFS Topics. FMN appears to be a key ingredient of the solution :

I'm wondering about the oxalates... Just like I was able to reverse my salicylate sensitivity with magnesium oxide, my oxalate issues are completely gone after overcoming anemia with B vits and then started eating 2 eggs daily EVERY single day. Obviously B2 has a pivotal role in it, and I am intrigued about why the oxalate protocol doesn't include B2.

Mario, last week I ditched the whey powder due to constipation (I think it is the stevia in it) and saw a horrible decline in energy and cognition. Today I took 2 tsps of whey and was infatigable, did the laundry of several days and even BAKED ( @ahmo ). Another thing that apparently bothers me is Selenium supplementation, and I prefer to have it in low amounts from foods (I have been avoiding Brazil nuts for several months now - will have to throw away my wonderful, huge, organic, straight from Amazonia nuts that have been sitting in the fridge )

This week I will try whey powder with xylitol, hoping for some improvement in gut

Well, all this to say that I don't know how I could try your protocol as obviously I don't do well on any of the supps in it

Actually I get unpleasant side effects from any antioxidant I try Right now the only supp I am taking other than whey powder is 5-Htp, which I started with intention to alleviate IBS-C, but now I don't know how I could ditch it...

 

[ahmo]

will have to throw away my wonderful, huge, organic, straight from Amazonia nuts that have been sitting in the fridge )

even BAKED ( @ahmo )

Actually I get unpleasant side effects from any antioxidant I try

why do you think this might be? Have you already answered this pages ago??

 

[Gondwanaland]

why do you think this might be? Have you already answered this pages ago??

I don't know, I think I should retry them one by one now that I do not react to oxalates anymore.

 

[mariovitali]

@Gondwanaland
I think i know why you feel better with Whey protein : It is Glutamate. Obviously you do not have any problem with GCH1 so you have no problem having Phenylalanine sources.

I have no idea why you don't feel well with Selenium. Because i talk with a lot of people : Have you tried Choline and Inositol? (sorry if you replied again to this). I believe that you also haven't tried TUDCA.

So i am not sure if you have the 'ER Stress' part of the regimen handled appropriately.

 

[Gondwanaland]

I have no idea why you don't feel well with Selenium.

As I said in another thread, I don't feel well on Se on its own, but it seems to work well if taken with Zn+Cu+Mn. So my assumption is that Se creates too much H2O2 for me to handle and the other minerals help to get rid of it (via SOD, Catalase). But right now I am feeling better by taking none of those. My serum Zn and Cu came up highish, esp. Zn/Cu ratio.

Have you tried Choline and Inositol?

Instead of supplementing with choline I upped my egg consumption, feels good, but nothing earth-shaking. When I tried Inositol it apparently was a coadjuvant for oxalate dumping - not good (just like how I feel by taking malic acid, Clostrydium butyricum, curcuma, Grape Seed Extract => tinnitus, tinnitus, tinnitus and other unpleasant symptoms)

So i am not sure if you have the 'ER Stress' part of the regimen handled appropriately.

That is precisely my concern, could I just take TUDCA on its own?

 

[mariovitali]

@Gondwanaland

Yes you can take TUDCA on its own. Regarding Choline, i was taking 700 mg per day roughly what an egg yolk (raw) provides a day for a couple of months. Do you eat an egg every day or just eat more frequently than i used to?

 

[Gondwanaland]

@Gondwanaland

Yes you can take TUDCA on its own. Regarding Choline, i was taking 700 mg per day roughly what an egg yolk (raw) provides a day for a couple of months. Do you eat an egg every day or just eat more frequently than i used to?

I have been eating 2 green-pastured eggs daily every day for almost 3 months straight now - soft boiled with runny yolks.

OK, I will gather some courage to try it... I am considering to split 1 cap into 2 or 4 doses since my body always overreacts to everything

 

[mariovitali]

Video about HSPs :

 

[ScottTriGuy]

Very interesting.
I'm going to ask my ND what she knows about it.

 

[ahmo]

@Gondwanaland

 

[Gondwanaland]

I also saw you are considering starting Miyarisan. Please be aware that Butyrate lowers TMAO levels and TMAO is good for proper Protein Folding (not discussed in the original post). So try not to mix protocols...

Perhaps this is why oat porridge knocked me out... Why can't I have both, butyrate AND proper TMAO levels?

http://cen.acs.org/articles/93/i38/Harnessing-Hordes-Microbiome.html
Balskus has focused on elucidating the process by which choline, a nutrient found in eggs and meat, is metabolized by bacteria. She got interested in choline metabolism after the Cleveland Clinic’s Stanley Hazen linked trimethylamine-N-oxide (TMAO), which is generated when gut microbes metabolize choline, to heart disease.

Intrigued that heart disease could be driven by our microbiota as well as our genetics, Balskus set out to determine which gut bacterial enzymes were mediating the choline fermentation. Her group discovered that choline TMA-lyase, a new member of the glycyl radical enzyme family, cleaves a C–N bond in choline to produce the TMAO precursor trimethylamine (TMA) (shown).

Her lab continues to explore how choline TMA-lysase works and what members of the gut microbiota actively use it. Balskus also has started to develop small molecules that modulate choline degradation and block TMA production, but she stresses that the work is preliminary.

 

[op2pig]

@mariovitali

I've been reading and re-reading this post from head-to-toe and I'm very exited to see how this proposed treatment develops. I took accutane in 2002 and have had chronic fatigue and sexual side effects since. I'm interested in attempting this protocol later this fall/winter and reporting back its impact from the accutane side of the chronic-illness-world. Am I correct in understanding that a DNA testing and review of SNPs is a necessary first step before proceeding with this treatment? Can I simply order the testing kit, 23andme and post the SNP results here for analysis or are there additional steps, or requests specific to 23andme that I need to make?
Cheers!