Unfolded Protein Response and A Possible Treatment for CFS

Marco

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Sorry I haven't been following this thread but as @Hip tagged me I thought I'd chip in.

I'm still keen on the idea that neuroinflammation/microglial activation plays a central role in ME/CFS. What I've been unsure about is whether this state is self-sustaining (which implies as Jarred Younger suggests that the microglia are responding in an exaggerated manner to normal physiological signals) or if (as appears to be the case with certain types of neuropathic pain) that activated microglia (central sensitisation if you like) needs constant peripheral stimulation (via for example small fibre neuropathy) to sustain it.

I was also keen to find a 'common signal' that might cover all of the 'stressors', from exercise to psychological stress that aggravate symptoms and induce PEM presumably via activated microglia.

One reasonable candidate is something called high mobility group box -1 protein (HMGB1) which appears to be the 'proximal' signal that 'alerts' microglia to everything from peripheral cellular stress to psychological stress.

A deficit in HSP production for example would result in elevated and prolonged cellular stress (oxidative/ER?) which would supply a more of less constant stream of 'danger signals' to already primed microglia.
 
Last edited:

Violeta

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Sorry I haven't been following this thread but as @Hip tagged me I thought I'd chip in.



A deficit in HSP production for example would result in elevated and prolonged cellular stress (oxidative/ER?) which would supply a more of less constant stream of 'danger signals' t

Is a deficit of HSP likely in the case of elevated and prolonged cellular stress? If you want to raise HSP production, increase stress! Would it be better to find out and deal with the cause of elevated stress than to be relying on a stop gap system?
 

Marco

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Is a deficit of HSP likely in the case of elevated and prolonged cellular stress? If you want to raise HSP production, increase stress! Would it be better to find out and deal with the cause of elevated stress than to be relying on a stop gap system?

That may be the problem - increased stress may not (if some studies on ME/CFS are right) result in increased HSP production.
 

Violeta

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3,192
That may be the problem - increased stress may not (if some studies on ME/CFS are right) result in increased HSP production.

And the cases when it does result in increased hsp production, could that be a link between me/cfs and cancer?
 

Violeta

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3,192
I am not sure i understand but for the record, whenever I had any myricetin or quercetin sources, i would immediately get symptoms. Both of them are HSP70 Antagonists and never worked in a favourable way for me. If the theory is correct, one could induce a major CFS incident by taking quercetin, myricetin and tunicamycin. Although I would NOT recommend this to anyone for any reason!

@mariovitali Tunicamycin is some sort of antibiotic, what is the reason for grouping it with quercetin and myricetin?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tunicamycin

"It is used as an experimental tool in biology, e.g. to induce unfolded protein response."

So yes, of course, it would cause problems.
 

Violeta

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3,192
Sorry @Violeta I'm not sure I'm following you. Two independent teams found attenuated HSP production in ME/CFS patients when 'stressed'. The 'stressors' are unavoidable.

But I don't follow you, are you saying that attenuated hsp production is the cause of MD/CFS, as Marco is saying?
 

Hip

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Sorry I haven't been following this thread but as @Hip tagged me I thought I'd chip in.

In case it's of interest, a one-sentence summary of @mariovitali's story:

Mario had post-finasteride syndrome for 7 years, which has a lots of overlap with ME/CFS; he took heat shock protein 70 boosters to reduce endoplasmic reticulum stress, and within 2 months he was in full remission.


One reasonable candidate is something called high mobility group box-1 protein which appears to be the 'proximal' signal that 'alerts' microglia to everything from peripheral cellular stress to psychological stress.

I will have to look into this high mobility group box-1 protein.
 

Violeta

Senior Member
Messages
3,192
In case it's of interest, a one-sentence summary of @mariovitali's story:

Mario had post-finasteride syndrome for 7 years, which has a lots of overlap with ME/CFS; he took heat shock protein 70 boosters to reduce endoplasmic reticulum stress, and within 2 months he was in full remission.

@Hip
I think I see some things in his protocol that aren't heat shock protein boosters!
For example, TUDCA, taurine (actually "antagonizes it), Vit C, choline, dibencozide, and severe protein avoidance.
 

mariovitali

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@Violeta

Taurine does not antagonize HSP70. It reduces ER Stress and as a consequence HSP70 levels are reduced. HSP70 levels are increased when ER Stress takes place so that Proteins can be properly folded. This is the job of all chaperones.

It is thought that many Hsp70s crowd around an unfolded substrate, stabilizing it and preventing aggregation until the unfolded molecule folds properly, at which time the Hsp70s lose affinity for the molecule and diffuse away.[20] Hsp70 also acts as a mitochondrial and chloroplastic molecular chaperone in eukaryotes.

The fact that HSP70 aids Cancer cells does not mean that HSP70 functionality should be lowered!


The same applies for TUDCA. It reduces ER Stress and as a consequence of this, HSP70 activity is lowered simply because it is not needed (since ER Stress is reduced)

Tauroursodeoxycholate (TUDCA), chemical chaperone, enhances function of islets by reducing ER stress.
Lee YY1, Hong SH, Lee YJ, Chung SS, Jung HS, Park SG, Park KS.
Author information

Abstract
The exposure to acute or chronic endoplasmic reticulum (ER) stress has been known to induce dysfunction of islets, leading to apoptosis. The reduction of ER stress in islet isolation for transplantation is critical for islet protection. In this study, we investigated whether tauroursodeoxycholate (TUDCA) could inhibit ER stress induced by thapsigargin, and restore the decreased glucose stimulation index of islets. In pig islets, thapsigargin decreased the insulin secretion by high glucose stimulation in a time-dependent manner (1h, 1.35+/-0.16; 2h, 1.21+/-0.13; 4h, 1.17+/-0.16 vs. 0h, 1.81+/-0.15, n=4, p<0.05, respectively). However, the treatment of TUDCA restored the decreased insulin secretion index induced by thapsigargin (thapsigargin, 1.25+/-0.12 vs. thapsigargin+TUDCA, 2.13+/-0.19, n=5, p<0.05). Furthermore, the culture of isolated islets for 24h with TUDCA significantly reduced the rate of islet regression (37.4+/-5.8% vs. 14.5+/-6.4%, n=12, p<0.05). The treatment of TUDCA enhanced ATP contents in islets (27.2+/-3.2pmol/20IEQs vs. 21.7+/-2.8pmol/20IEQs, n=9, p<0.05). The insulin secretion index by high glucose stimulation is also increased by treatment of TUDCA (2.42+/-0.15 vs. 1.92+/-0.12, n=12, p<0.05). Taken together, we suggest that TUDCA could be a useful agent for islet protection in islet isolation for transplantation.


@Hip

Mario had post-finasteride syndrome for 7 years, which has a lots of overlap with ME/CFS; he took heat shock protein 70 boosters to reduce endoplasmic reticulum stress, and within 2 months he was in full remission.

Minor correction : The protocol not only induces HSP70 but it also aids in preventing ER Stress in the first place. For example i do not eat meat as much as i used to. I stopped Sugar and Alcohol intake. I make sure that i take my Methylation supplements and that i boost BH4 Production. I also take NAG in order to aid in proper Quality Control of Protein Folding. In other words this regimen battles ER Stress in many ways (or at least this is its goal).

If All of the above are not taken care of, i will have increased ER Stress and as a consequence UPR and Apoptosis.
 

mariovitali

Senior Member
Messages
1,214
Sorry I haven't been following this thread but as @Hip tagged me I thought I'd chip in.

I'm still keen on the idea that neuroinflammation/microglial activation plays a central role in ME/CFS. What I've been unsure about is whether this state is self-sustaining (which implies as Jarred Younger suggests that the microglia are responding in an exaggerated manner to normal physiological signals) or if (as appears to be the case with certain types of neuropathic pain) that activated microglia (central sensitisation if you like) needs constant peripheral stimulation (via for example small fibre neuropathy) to sustain it.

I was also keen to find a 'common signal' that might cover all of the 'stressors', from exercise to psychological stress that aggravate symptoms and induce PEM presumably via activated microglia.

One reasonable candidate is something called high mobility group box -1 protein (HMGB1) which appears to be the 'proximal' signal that 'alerts' microglia to everything from peripheral cellular stress to psychological stress.

A deficit in HSP production for example would result in elevated and prolonged cellular stress (oxidative/ER?) which would supply a more of less constant stream of 'danger signals' to already primed microglia.

Marco thank you for this. I used HMGB1 in the software i use to see associations between topics, so here goes :


*********Topic : hmgb1 ***************
advanced_glycation_end.csv : 5.17 %
glycosylation.csv : 0.50 %
inflammatory_response.csv : 0.49 %
mcp-1.csv : 0.43 %
hsp70.csv : 0.26 %
microglia.csv : 0.26 %
stat1.csv : 0.22 %
inducible_nos.csv : 0.21 %
vcam-1.csv : 0.20 %
sirt1.csv : 0.19 %
il_10.csv : 0.19 %
caspase_human.csv : 0.18 %
heat_shock_protein.csv : 0.16 %
immune_response.csv : 0.15 %
curcumin.csv : 0.14 %
perk.csv : 0.14 %
xbp1.csv : 0.14 %
er_stress.csv : 0.14 %
choline_deficiency.csv : 0.12 %
glycerylphosphorylcholine.csv : 0.12 %

ire1.csv : 0.11 %
ros.csv : 0.10 %
excitotoxicity.csv : 0.10 %
butyrate.csv : 0.10 %
hepatotoxicity.csv : 0.09 %
chaperones.csv : 0.09 %
nafld.csv : 0.09 %
hepatocytes.csv : 0.08 %
hsc.csv : 0.08 %
resveratrol.csv : 0.08 %
pbmc.csv : 0.08 %
upr.csv : 0.08 %
oxidative_stress_markers.csv : 0.07 %
osmolytes.csv : 0.06 %
peroxynitrite.csv : 0.06 %
neurite_outgrowth.csv : 0.06 %
cyp1b1.csv : 0.05 %
p53.csv : 0.05 %
histone_deacetylase.csv : 0.05 %
hexosamine.csv : 0.04 %
uric_acid.csv : 0.04 %
asymmetric_dimethylarginine.csv : 0.04 %
acetylcholine.csv : 0.04 %
amyloid.csv : 0.04 %
glycoproteins.csv : 0.04 %
mitochondrial_dysfunction.csv : 0.04 %
adrenergic_receptor.csv : 0.03 %
endothelial_nos.csv : 0.03 %
crohns_disease.csv : 0.03 %
oxidative_stress_protection.csv : 0.03 %
rxr.csv : 0.03 %
human_proteinuria.csv : 0.03 %
ngf.csv : 0.03 %
taurine.csv : 0.02 %
omega3.csv : 0.02 %
magnesium_deficiency.csv : 0.02 %
sinusitis.csv : 0.02 %
cyp2e1.csv : 0.02 %
nadph_human.csv : 0.02 %
glutamate.csv : 0.02 %
calcium_homeostasis.csv : 0.02 %
protease_inhibitor.csv : 0.02 %
urea_cycle.csv : 0.02 %
caloric_restriction.csv : 0.02 %
hpa_axis.csv : 0.01 %
monosodium_glutamate.csv : 0.01 %
autism.csv : 0.01 %
microbiome_humans.csv : 0.01 %
cholestasis.csv : 0.01 %
ckd.csv : 0.01 %
hmgcoa.csv : 0.01 %
nadh_human.csv : 0.01 %
steatohepatitis.csv : 0.01 %
triiodothyronine_levels.csv : 0.01 %
insulin_resistance.csv : 0.01 %
l-arginine.csv : 0.01 %
phospholipid_human.csv : 0.01 %
probiotics.csv : 0.01 %
hydroxysteroid_dehydrogenase.csv : 0.01 %
acetyl-coa.csv : 0.01 %
vitamin_d3.csv : 0.01 %
dopamine_levels.csv : 0.01 %
amyloidosis.csv : 0.00 %
atrial_fibrillation.csv : 0.00 %
cortisol_levels.csv : 0.00 %
selenium.csv : 0.00 %
dysautonomia.csv : 0.00 %
dopamine.csv : 0.00 %
tau.csv : 0.00 %
phosphatidylcholine.csv : 0.00 %
tudca.csv : 0.00 %
dolichol.csv : 0.00 %
insomnia.csv : 0.00 %
5-htp.csv : 0.00 %
adrenal_hyperplasia.csv : 0.00 %
mastocytosis.csv : 0.00 %
scfa.csv : 0.00 %
vitamin_k2.csv : 0.00 %
p450scc.csv : 0.00 %
limbic_system.csv : 0.00 %
coenzymeq10.csv : 0.00 %
5mthf.csv : 0.00 %
panic_disorder.csv : 0.00 %
neuronal_nos.csv : 0.00 %
adhd.csv : 0.00 %
iron_deficiency.csv : 0.00 %
dpagt1.csv : 0.00 %
udpgluc.csv : 0.00 %
pgc1.csv : 0.00 %
dht.csv : 0.00 %
n-acetylglucosamine.csv : 0.00 %
phenylketonuria.csv : 0.00 %
irritable_bowel.csv : 0.00 %
sshl.csv : 0.00 %
5alphareductase.csv : 0.00 %
l_tyrosine.csv : 0.00 %
gtp_cyclohydrolase.csv : 0.00 %
ebv.csv : 0.00 %
misfolded_proteins.csv : 0.00 %
3betahsd.csv : 0.00 %
nlinkedglycosylation.csv : 0.00 %
mast_cell_activation.csv : 0.00 %
gaba_human.csv : 0.00 %
gpr78.csv : 0.00 %
orthostatic_intolerance.csv : 0.00 %
cerebrovascular_amyloidosis.csv : 0.00 %
social_anxiety.csv : 0.00 %
systemic_amyloidosis.csv : 0.00 %
oxalates.csv : 0.00 %
udpglcnac.csv : 0.00 %
adrenal_insufficiency.csv : 0.00 %
finasteride.csv : 0.00 %
cfs.csv : 0.00 %
selenium_deficiency.csv : 0.00 %
gluten.csv : 0.00 %
benfotiamine.csv : 0.00 %
cimetidine.csv : 0.00 %
anhedonia.csv : 0.00 %
tocotrienol.csv : 0.00 %
cyp3a4.csv : 0.00 %
cyp2d6.csv : 0.00 %
fmo3.csv : 0.00 %
baroreceptor.csv : 0.00 %
rar.csv : 0.00 %
p5p.csv : 0.00 %
pqq.csv : 0.00 %
cyp1a2.csv : 0.00 %
beta-alanine.csv : 0.00 %
testosterone_production.csv : 0.00 %
freet3.csv : 0.00 %
car.csv : 0.00 %
mucuna.csv : 0.00 %
vitamin_b6.csv : 0.00 %
inositol.csv : 0.00 %
p450oxidoreductase.csv : 0.00 %
ginkgo.csv : 0.00 %
lipoic_acid.csv : 0.00 %
allopregnanolone.csv : 0.00 %
tetrahydrobiopterin.csv : 0.00 %
mthfr.csv : 0.00 %
human_semen.csv : 0.00 %
steroidogenesis_human.csv : 0.00 %
l_tryptophan.csv : 0.00 %
creatine_supplementation.csv : 0.00 %
accutane.csv : 0.00 %
serotonin_levels.csv : 0.00 %
dihydroprogesterone.csv : 0.00 %
cyp1a1.csv : 0.00 %
floaters.csv : 0.00 %
pregnenolone.csv : 0.00 %
rituximab.csv : 0.00 %
d-limonene.csv : 0.00 %
resistant_starch.csv : 0.00 %
trpv.csv : 0.00 %
l-dopa.csv : 0.00 %
tinnitus.csv : 0.00 %
zinc_supplementation.csv : 0.00 %
hgh.csv : 0.00 %
tmao.csv : 0.00 %
subclinicalhypo.csv : 0.00 %
o-glcnac.csv : 0.00 %
star.csv : 0.00 %
l_carnitine.csv : 0.00 %
srd5a3.csv : 0.00 %
pxr.csv : 0.00 %


I don't know if you are seeing anything useful but for me Glycosylation and Choline deficiency and their connection with HMGB1 probably requires further investigation.
 
Last edited:

Violeta

Senior Member
Messages
3,192
@mariovitali
Would your recommendations be the same if the er stress were to be caused by viral proteins seeing that EBV at the very least is commonly found in cancerous tumors?
 

mariovitali

Senior Member
Messages
1,214
@mariovitali
Would your recommendations be the same if the er stress were to be caused by viral proteins seeing that EBV at the very least is commonly found in cancerous tumors?

I am not sure i am following you Violeta. Are you implying that the regimen could lead to cancer? Please elaborate your hypothesis so we can understand more.
 

Marco

Grrrrrrr!
Messages
2,386
Location
Near Cognac, France
In case it's of interest, a one-sentence summary of @mariovitali's story:

Mario had post-finasteride syndrome for 7 years, which has a lots of overlap with ME/CFS; he took heat shock protein 70 boosters to reduce endoplasmic reticulum stress, and within 2 months he was in full remission.

I will have to look into this high mobility group box-1 protein.

Thanks @Hip

These abstracts might be a start :

Stress sounds the alarmin: The role of the danger-associated molecular pattern HMGB1 in stress-induced neuroinflammatory priming.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25816800

Stress induces the danger-associated molecular pattern HMGB-1 in the hippocampus of male Sprague Dawley rats: a priming stimulus of microglia and the NLRP3 inflammasome.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25568124
 

mariovitali

Senior Member
Messages
1,214
AGE seriously stands out.

Yes this should have been included in bold, Thanks @adreno.

See also below a Linear Correlation between the Topics with HMGB1 :

Screen Shot 2015-08-09 at 14.15.55.png
 
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