Unfolded Protein Response and A Possible Treatment for CFS

Gondwanaland

Gondwanaland

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5,100
mariovitali said:
I do have a lot of sneezing going on epsecially in the morning when i wake up (probably allergic rhinitis)
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My husband had it too. it went away with quercetin... 30mg in the morning, 20-30mg in the evening... he took it for about 2-3 months. Now he will have it on occasion only, then he takes quercetin again for about 3-4 days and all is well.

This is why I think his B1 is low. Well Mario, yesterday before dinner he was feeling pretty nauseous... and this morning woke up with a very sore liver. From 20mg of Benfo??? :eek: I think it stimulated phase I and phase II was overburdened (or the other way around?)

So I think he should take the Bs together to avoid that. I wonder if my own B mix would benefit him? I am afraid he would end up with too many RBCs since he doesn't have anemia at all, but clearly is deficeint in B2 and B6 (highish serum HCY and lowish serum folate). He can't seem to tolerate folate while B1, B2 and B6 are normalized.

Would you suggest to give him just Choline and Taurine and address the Bs later? His liver is very sensitive due to Hep A and drug-induced Hep (acetaminophen). :(
 
mariovitali

mariovitali

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Gondwanaland said:
My husband had it too. it went away with quercetin... 30mg in the morning, 20-30mg in the evening... he took it for about 2-3 months. Now he will have it on occasion only, then he takes quercetin again for about 3-4 days and all is well.

This is why I think his B1 is low. Well Mario, yesterday before dinner he was feeling pretty nauseous... and this morning woke up with a very sore liver. From 20mg of Benfo??? :eek: I think it stimulated phase I and phase II was overburdened (or the other way around?)

So I think he should take the Bs together to avoid that. I wonder if my own B mix would benefit him? I am afraid he would end up with too many RBCs since he doesn't have anemia at all, but clearly is deficeint in B2 and B6 (highish serum HCY and lowish serum folate). He can't seem to tolerate folate while B1, B2 and B6 are normalized.

Would you suggest to give him just Choline and Taurine and address the Bs later? His liver is very sensitive due to Hep A and drug-induced Hep (acetaminophen). :(
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Is Benfo, Benfotiamine? If this is what you gave him then that means that Hexosamine pathway was downregulated and as a result a lot of necessary product of Hexosamine pathway that are beneficial to us were inhibited. I also assume that you gave him Benfotiamine because of insulin sensitivity issues?


Start with Choline supplementation first. It makes now more sense since you are saying that DH has Hep A *and* Drug-induced Hep.

Liver has to be fixed first. I do not remember how many SNPs he has in Choline metabolism but if my memory serves me well he has a couple of +/+ SNPs. Healing the liver will take time.

Too bad you cannot get hold of TUDCA, this appears to be a true Liver saver...
 
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Gondwanaland

Gondwanaland

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Amazon doesn't ship supps to my country, but I have someone coming from the US late August who might bring one bottle for me... Meanwhile I will order some choline and taurine caps from the local pharmacy and have him started on those. Last time he took 100mg Tau he had IBS-D though...

His Hepatitises are from the past, but I don't think you ever get cured from them... His blood gets discarded when he donates due to Hep A markers (I thought that only who had Hep B and C would be of concern).
 
Violeta

Violeta

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Gondwanaland said:
Amazon doesn't ship supps to my country, but I have someone coming from the US late August who might bring one bottle for me... Meanwhile I will order some choline and taurine caps from the local pharmacy and have him started on those. Last time he took 100mg Tau he had IBS-D though...

His Hepatitises are from the past, but I don't think you ever get cured from them... His blood gets discarded when he donates due to Hep A markers (I thought that only who had Hep B and C would be of concern).
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Hepatitis a involves a virus, @Gondwanaland , does your husband do anything for virus?
 
mariovitali

mariovitali

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@Gondwanaland

Tauroursodeoxycholic acid for the treatment of chronic hepatitis: a multicentre dose-response study

Ursodeoxycholic acid (UDCA) improves the biochemical expression of chronic liver disease. Tauroursodeoxycholic acid (TUDCA) was recently shown to have more favourable metabolic properties. We designed a multicenter, randomized, controlled study, aimed at assessing the efficacy of TUDCA for the treatment of chronic hepatitis. One hundred and fifty-five patients with chronic hepatitis were randomly assigned to receive TUDCA at the daily doses of 250, 500 and 1000 mg, or no treatment for 6 months. Aminotransferase and gamma-glutamyl transpeptidase (GGT) serum levels decreased with each dose of TUDCA compared with controls (P<0.001). The 1000 mg dose was followed by more marked improvement compared with 250 mg (P<0.05). A progressive improvement of alanine aminotransferase (ALT) with time (P<0.05) was found only with the two higher doses. TUDCA improves the biochemical expression of chronic hepatitis and daily doses of at least 500 mg are recommended.
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and


Viral Entry of Hepatitis B and D Viruses and Bile Salts Transportation Share Common Molecular Determinants on Sodium Taurocholate Cotransporting Polypeptide


A taurine conjugate form of ursodeoxycholic acid (TUDCA) was found to be a potent inhibitor for viral infections by HBV and HDV. Intriguingly, several clinical observations have indicated that long-term bile salt treatment, in particular that with UDCA, leads to improvement of liver function in hepatitis B patients (24, 25).
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Gondwanaland

Gondwanaland

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5,100
mariovitali said:
Now, if you are Choline deficient then most likely you also have low levels of TMAO. When you add CB to the mix then Butyrate is generated which lowers TMAO even more.

My theory is that people who try CB and feel worse can be attributed to very low TMAO levels and as a consequence even more inefficient Protein Folding capacity.

I think you can create a "CFS perfect storm" if you take CB and Whey Protein at the same day.
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It's beginning to make sense to my fogged head...

Could you please redirect me to the post where you said something about anti-glycation supplements (Beta-Alanine...?) ?
 
B

BarbCat

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4
Yes, I'm also taking macuna pruriens as well because of similar SNPs re my DNA report. The report says my COMT and GABA production is impaired as well as my ammonia cycle. All this stuff is fascinating and I'm glad we're getting somewhere, especially with the methylation data coming to light but still waiting for that miracle.
 
mariovitali

mariovitali

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1,214
Gondwanaland said:
It's beginning to make sense to my fogged head...

Could you please redirect me to the post where you said something about anti-glycation supplements (Beta-Alanine...?) ?
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Do you mean Advanced Glycation End Products? (AGEs). It discussed that Benfotiamine lowers AGEs (which is a good thing) but also lowers Hexosamine Pathway (which probably is not good).

Beta-Alanine is an osmolyte (like Taurine) which apparently helps also to proper Protein Folding which means that it helps us.
 
mariovitali

mariovitali

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FYI, My current regimen is as follows :


In parentheses i have supplements (Mucuna Dopa, 5-HTP) that are taken for particular SNPs and therefore they may not be applicable to you.



08:00

Metafolin 2000 mcg
Dibencozide 1/4 tablet
(Mucuna Dopa 100 mg)
N-Acetylglucosamine 700 mg
Taurine 500 mg

10:00
Choline 350 mg


12:00
P5P 50 mg
Selenium 100 mcg
TUDCA 250 mg


16:00
(5-HTP 50 mg)
Taurine 500 mg
N-Acetylglucosamine 700 mg


20:00
Vitamin C 500 mg
(5-HTP 50 mg)
Choline 350 mg

23:00
NAG 700 mg


24:00
TUDCA 250 mg
 
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girlinthesnow

girlinthesnow

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273
I'm slowly working my way through this thread but wanted to ask about a-l carnosine and coffee.

I don't remember how I came across it but about 6 months ago I started taking 500 mg of beta-alanine when I was doing a pulsed abx regime for Lyme and was very toxic. I had chronic insomnia and woke at 3 am every night.

B-alanine gave me headaches but also my best 3 hours of sleep. I abandoned the abx regime after I was no longer able to tolerate it but continued with B-alanine at a reduced dose of 100 mg.

A month ago I began to have two cups of good coffee with coconut milk on waking. My cognition has improved and I no longer feel that I'm progressing to AD. I'm still brain-fogged but have moments of clarity. Is this a possible effect of the combination of these two? Why does b-alanine cause head pain?

Thanks for this thread!
 
mariovitali

mariovitali

Senior Member
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1,214
Gondwanaland said:
So many supplements, so little money :moneybag:

Do you mind sharing which ones?
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Sure, here they are:

GCH1, associated with lower levels of BH4

rs10483639( Risk C) (G;C)
rs3783641(Risk A) (A;T)
rs8007267(Risk T) (C;T)
rs12147422 -(Risk C) (T;T)
rs3783637 - (Risk T) C;C
rs3783641 - (Risk A) A;T
rs41298442 - TT (T)
rs4411417 - (Risk C) C;Τ
rs752688 - (Risk T) ( C;T)
rs841 - (Risk A) A;G
rs998259 - (Risk T) C;C
rs7147286 - (Risk A) A;G
 
mariovitali

mariovitali

Senior Member
Messages
1,214
girlinthesnow said:
I'm slowly working my way through this thread but wanted to ask about a-l carnosine and coffee.

I don't remember how I came across it but about 6 months ago I started taking 500 mg of beta-alanine when I was doing a pulsed abx regime for Lyme and was very toxic. I had chronic insomnia and woke at 3 am every night.

B-alanine gave me headaches but also my best 3 hours of sleep. I abandoned the abx regime after I was no longer able to tolerate it but continued with B-alanine at a reduced dose of 100 mg.

A month ago I began to have two cups of good coffee with coconut milk on waking. My cognition has improved and I no longer feel that I'm progressing to AD. I'm still brain-fogged but have moments of clarity. Is this a possible effect of the combination of these two? Why does b-alanine cause head pain?

Thanks for this thread!
Click to expand...


Did you have a DNA Test? If yes, can you share your SNPs in the genes discussed in this Thread?
 
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