U. S. Department of Justice

justinreilly

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fyi- just for clarity-
there are probably two broad ways we could proceed:
(1) an administrative remedy- filing complaints with agencies like DoJ. we still have to identify exactly what the appropriate ones are.
(2) a lawsuit in federal court- i would think the federal tort claims act is what it would fall under if anything. fyi the govt is immune from lawsuits unless it has specifically waived that right in a statute. the federal tort claims act is the broadest statute that waives this 'sovereign immunity.'

we're better off focusing on administrative remedies for now, imo. uses less resources and may be a prerequisite to filing a lawsuit.

i think we will need one or more members of congress to go to bat for us to get any of the agencies to do anything, including look into complaints we file with them. this is what hillary johnson did with, i think nadler from nyc, to get the investigations into cdc in 1999 and 2000. so i think we need to focus on building support in congress.
 
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Wow Crappy - Wow! Thank you for taking such time and energy to write such a well thought out document. I am not a lawyer, but I like your passion. I don't see why you couldn't even just send this to a couple of well choosen lawyers and see what they think, please tell me if I'm missing something here Justin, but it seems that the lawyers would then re-write this in legal-ease. I think we do need to cite sources to back it up though- for instance, use the CDC's own research on cost in Georgia.

Interesting you mention insurance companies, because I was just thinking the other day, that it's in the insurance companies best interest to deny the seriousness of the illness. We are the only illness that I am aware of that require lengthy office visits. And most CFS docs can't take insurance because they will just be reimbursed a pittance for their time. So we poors slubs have to spend money from our own pockets to pay for all office visits, isn't that great for the insurance companies - no payment required - they and their lobbyists have got to be driving this as well.
 

WillowJ

คภภเє ɠรค๓թєl
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I second what Francelle said.

About the great numbers of us, there are a lot, but only 10% diagnosed. All fatigue pts are discriminated against (tho it gets worse when u get the cfs label) and docs often want to brush fatigue pt off w/out even trying to dx. I know; I was there.

Justin, what is "shock of the truth"? sounds promising...
 

justinreilly

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Wow Crappy - Wow! Thank you for taking such time and energy to write such a well thought out document. I am not a lawyer, but I like your passion. I don't see why you couldn't even just send this to a couple of well choosen lawyers and see what they think, please tell me if I'm missing something here Justin, but it seems that the lawyers would then re-write this in legal-ease. I think we do need to cite sources to back it up though- for instance, use the CDC's own research on cost in Georgia.

Interesting you mention insurance companies, because I was just thinking the other day, that it's in the insurance companies best interest to deny the seriousness of the illness. We are the only illness that I am aware of that require lengthy office visits. And most CFS docs can't take insurance because they will just be reimbursed a pittance for their time. So we poors slubs have to spend money from our own pockets to pay for all office visits, isn't that great for the insurance companies - no payment required - they and their lobbyists have got to be driving this as well.
sure, send it out and see what happens.

obviously, it is in the short-term financial interest of insurers to get us lost in a sea of 'chronic fatigue'.
 

alex3619

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The bag of peanuts

I would like to make four points for consideration.

First, this really is a human rights issue. I have been wondering for years if I should go to Amnesty International and talk to them. I have also wondered about the United Nations. Discrimination is sad fact of the human condition. It is everwhere. The underlying attitudes that lead to discrimination are the real issue though. We should be making connections with organizations that are challenging discrimination issues everywhere.

Second, the more I think about it the more I cannot blame insurance companies, unless we can prove illegal actions. Look at it from a CEOs perspective. Here is a condition that has no proven test, no proven treatment, and no proven epidemiology. Even outcomes are unknown in the sense of what insurance companies want to know. The CEO does however have certain legal obligations, including to shareholders. They have to protect share holder interests.

So, the lack of fundamental research is at the core of everything. The scale and cost of the illness is staggering, and we spend peanuts on research. When research is increased, it is spun as a massive increase but it is really just tossing us another bag of peanuts.

This is a failure of governments and government institutions, worldwide, from all sides of politics, for generations. Government agencies have many legal protections, and for good reasons, but this doesn't mean they can't be exposed and shamed. Just because we can't sue one agency, doesn't mean we can't expose them, shame them, write books and make documentaries about their actions. Hillary Johnson showed us that. If we can find legal avenues that would be great - but what we need are more investigative journalists, who are a dying breed with the entrenched global media in decline.

Bye
Alex
 

SilverbladeTE

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Alex
yup, should have a bunch of psychs and others in fornt of the International Crimanal Court for Crimes Against Humanity
this goes WAY beyond individual cases, into as I've said, genocide by deliberate neglect of medical treatment and aid.
In the US, which hasn't signed up to the ICC, it would be a capitol crime, iirc?
 

alex3619

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Hi SilverbladeTE, it could indeed be a capital crime in some states of the USA - and in many countries it would be. If China discovers how they have been deceived, lied to and harmed, like we have, they would not be happy with the perpetrators. Bye, Alex