Trial By Error, Continued: A Few Words About “Harassment” David Tuller

[Ecoclimber]

If this is what everyone is referring to this research,https://web.archive.org/web/2005012....com/cgi/eletters/bmj.38301.587106.63v1#89044 I see no issues with Ellen Goudsmit comments. However, I do see Angela Kennedy of the 'One Click Group' viewpoint unrealistic concerning using CCC definition ref. research as this would not be incorporated into reseach as the focus was clinical & procedures had not been adopted at this early date for research.

 

[Bob]

Were Ellen's alleged harassers patients?

 

[Invisible Woman]

And another great opportunity to move forward becomes mired in the past.....

 

[Ecoclimber]

@Bob Is this for me? I'm totally confused on Ellen's position. Is she talking about harrasment by researchers and patients towards her or harrassment toward researchers? Since she suffers from ME/CFS, I wonder if this has impaired her perception of events. I don't know enough of the backstory but her rambling discourse on virology.ws is confusing a number of people including me.

 

[worldbackwards]

Whatever the reason, her modus operandi on social media has generally been to start an argument at cross purposes to what has been said, then lash out at everyone who disagrees with her. I haven't read the thread in question (life really is too short, even with ME), but am I getting warm?

 

[ukxmrv]

I think this is more like what she had in mind (Ellen and Jane Bryant)

http://www.theoneclickgroup.co.uk/news.php?id=288#newspost

Ellen did take police action against Jane. The case number and outcome used to be on the internet. This was years ago.

 

[Bob]

@Bob Is this for me? I'm totally confused on Ellen's position.

Thanks Eco. It was an open question to anyone who might know some details. All I know is that the alleged events took place years ago. But it's probably not sensible to dredge it all up now, so I probably shouldn't have asked.

 

[ukxmrv]

Were Ellen's alleged harassers patients?

No, Jane Bryant is not a patient. Her son was diagnosed with CFS or ME and eventually Lyme I think. Sorry don't remember all the details.

 

[Mrs Sowester]

She's come across as confused. It's difficult to tell which camp she allies herself with as her use of 'we' can either mean ME researchers or PWME from post to post. But ultimately not backing up her assertions about harassment with proof back up Tuller's point, don't they?

 

[Cheshire]

I think Ellen is genuinely still upset about the fight she had with the one click group and to be precise one particular person who started the group.

To be honest, I'm afraid EG is upset about pretty anything.

She's come across as confused. It's difficult to tell which camp she allies herself with

I think her only camp is her own.
Whatever her aim was, she managed to turn the whole comment section upside down, not doing us a great service. Every comment is fueling her writing.

 

[ukxmrv]

I think the old spate Ellen is referring to goes back to the London criteria and PACE


http://www.meactionuk.org.uk/Ellen_and_the_London_criteria.htm

 

[Mrs Sowester]

To be honest, I'm afraid EG is upset about pretty anything.



I think her only camp is her own.
Whatever her aim was, she managed to turn the whole comment section upside down, not doing us a great service. Every comment is fueling her writing.

I think she's doing neither camp a great service, especially as she's the only person (kind of) allied with PACE to comment.
I guess all the key players know of her MO by now - so only new comers will question the statements.

 

[Valentijn]

So this is all just leftover crap from a pedantic spat that escalated into something nastier 10-12 years ago?

 

[adreno]

So this is all just leftover crap from a pedantic spat that escalated into something nastier 10-12 years ago?

It all seems very pathetic to be bringing this up again now.

 

[Kati]

It is probably best not to keep on fueling the fire in the comment section of David's blog post. Nothing will be achieved. And this is Virology blog, not a patient forum...

 

[Aurator]

But ultimately not backing up her assertions about harassment with proof back up Tuller's point, don't they?

Exactly. Don't forget though that her superior knowledge and authority place her out of Tuller's reach:
*"As a referee and examiner (stopped writing exam questions though), I would say Dr Tuller needs to review and tweak things here and there."

It all seems very pathetic to be bringing this up again now.

Wounded vanity takes a long time to heal.

 

[leela]

Yes, imho it is best not to engage people or topics that are not contributing to the powerful momentum of the current conversation.
If off-topic voices just fall into a void of non-responsiveness, they will more likely be seen clearly for what they are without anyone having to try to point it out or fix it.

Of course if anti-productive behaviour continues or escalates, a carefully phrased offline request to refrain/desist could be in order.

 

[BurnA]

I commented on one of her tweets one time and she nearly exploded ! I thought it was me but obviously I am not that unique afterall

 

[Ecoclimber]

I commented on one of her tweets one time and she nearly exploded ! I thought it was me but obviously I am not that unique afterall

Could be the effects of ME. I suppose for many outside the UK, her postings are 'Lost in Translation'

 

[Mrs Sowester]

This is horrible, it's like watching someone self destruct but taking everyone else out along with them too.