treatment for worms has helped my gut a bit but why?

[dannybex]

Hi Lala,

I'm curious about the DE, and am wondering how much you started out with, and built up to -- and also how far away from meals and/or supplements you take it?

Thanks,

Dan

 

[RustyJ]

Hi Lala,

I'm curious about the DE, and am wondering how much you started out with, and built up to -- and also how far away from meals and/or supplements you take it?

Thanks,

Dan

Me 2! (Ha, had to increase letter count)

 

[Waverunner]

danny: That would be great but please take your time and wait till you have some more energy. I really would be interested in treatment and diagnosis. I spoke to a doctor and he said that they offer a test for antibodies against 4 parasites but I don't know how useful it is.

 

[Smygen]

Only side-effect i've found, is that my bowel movements slow down while taking vermox.

In the beginning, that was a blessing, since i had big problems with everything i ate just shooting through my body.
hehe
We all react in the weirdest ways to stuff (meds/food) we eat. But this is the only sideeffect i know and have been told about, from others with me. And we tried a lot of different doses

 

[orion]

I take 200mg (2x100mg) morning and night/evening for 3 days, every 2 weeks. Done this more than 2 years.

Hi, can you confirm that you take 200mg in the morning and 200mg at night (i.e. 400mg per day)? The reason I ask is because according to Wikipedia the official dose is just 2x100mg per day. Is there a reason why you decided to exceed the official dose?

I went out and bought some Mebendazole today (Ovex brand if anyone's interested) and it was actually more expensive than I anticipated. So I'd rather not take more than is absolutely necessary.

 

[kurt]

Interesting thread. I've just done some research into Mebendazole/Vermox. It appears to be pretty safe so I've decided to give it a shot.

I no longer have anything to do with doctors so I was expecting to have to order it from some dodgy Indian online pharmacy at an inflated price. However, I was pleasantly surprised to find out that it's actually available over the counter here in the UK, and it's pretty cheap as well! So trying it out is really a no-brainer.

All I need to do now is decide on a suitable dose.

I've been trying to remember, and suspect that when I took Vermox as a preventative (a family member had ringworm) we took 500mg once, and then a second dose a week or maybe 10 days later. However other people recommend 100mg twice daily for 3 or 4 days. If you are treating suspected parasites, either of those options might work.

I think this is probably a matter for experimentation. Personally I plan to try this again as well, but maybe for longer, like what Smygen reported. But probably will experiment with dosages a bit.

 

[Smygen]

The dose recomended on the package is 200mg a day (100mg morning + 100mg in the evening)
But if you read inside, it say that max dose are 400mg a day (200 + 200)
In my case (and the others that did this)........the standard dose did not do enough. And since i'm afraid of all the stuff to come back, i'm staying on max dose.
And it is sort of expensive

 

[Lala]

Hi guys,

I am on DE since December on and off. I started with very small dose 1/4 of tea spoon and slowly increased dose. Now I am taking rounded table spoon. I take it at least two hours away from antibiotics and supplements and it should be ok. It is supposed to kill intestinal parasites and candida along with trapping some toxins, heavy metals, viruses and bacteria. When I suddenly took large dose in December I experienced brutal die off for 3 days. I was amazed, that I was pain free for one day after so many years. But I had to stop and then restart with much smaller dose. The pain returned of course. So since then I am working very slowly up and I am feeling it is doing something. After every increment I see some little die off and then I am ok with the dose. Because I am on atb along with this I prefer this gentle slow way. Otherwise they recommend at least two heaping table spoons for an adult, in case the largest parasites as tapeworms are expected even more like 4.

 

[RustyJ]

I am a little puzzled about reaction times. I understood that it was the toxins from the parasites and the damage they caused that was the issue. Why are people getting relief immediately? I assume that it would take days or weeks, even longer for toxins to dissipate and for damage to be repaired.

If people are getting immediate relief, albeit temporary, then it is not also a possibility that there is something else going on. Possibly an immune system reaction to the DE or other remedy which temporarily corrects an imbalance (caused by whatever).

So you are not really getting rid of the cause, just easing some of the symptoms.

 

[kurt]

I am a little puzzled about reaction times. I understood that it was the toxins from the parasites and the damage they caused that was the issue. Why are people getting relief immediately? I assume that it would take days or weeks, even longer for toxins to dissipate and for damage to be repaired.

If people are getting immediate relief, albeit temporary, then it is not also a possibility that there is something else going on. Possibly an immune system reaction to the DE or other remedy which temporarily corrects an imbalance (caused by whatever).

So you are not really getting rid of the cause, just easing some of the symptoms.

If a person has leaky gut syndrome, then immediate relief from stopping or lowering gut parasite activity seems possible. Those bugs excrete neurotoxins. With LGS those toxins get right to the bloodstream where the kidney and liver probably get over-taxed. Lower the blood toxin levels and no doubt a lot of vital functions work better as soon as the toxin load goes down.

 

[RustyJ]

If a person has leaky gut syndrome, then immediate relief from stopping or lowering gut parasite activity seems possible.

From memory, leaky gut involves damage to the gut wall lining, which would take at least a week to heal. I would imagine complete healing would taken much longer.

 

[Lala]

Yes, but when we kill some parasites and they immediately stop sucking our blood and leave hold of intestinal wall, would not it help immediately? I also speculate DE can trap some toxins from mold and thus can help quickly to gain some energy. Of course it is wild speculation, but according to http://www.survivingmold.com/ cholestyramin is used to catch mold toxins and DE lowers cholesterol in the same way as cholestyramin.

 

[In Vitro Infidelium]

As for the reported apparently rapid improvements with worming treatments (regardless of the mechanism) we could always arrange a small (not controlled for placebo) trial amongst posters given that the drug is available over the internet and presumably reasonably cheap; its well tolerated short term and the reported responses are after a single dose and almost immediate. Any reports back would of course be subjective but potentially more convincing than a series of anecdotal reports would be? I'm pretty sure that most of us have a pretty low placebo response after trying so many useless 'cures' so I'd trust forum members to be quite straight in saying yea or nay.

Have you ever seen the look on the face of a mechanic who is presented with a breakdown where the vehicle owner has had a go at fixing it themselves ? Or heating engineer called into mend a boiler where the home owner has tried a DIY repair, or an Attorney picking up a legal case that their client has kicked off without taking advice ? Apart from the very obvious failings, in each of these cases the professional is faced with an implied undermining of their professions competence a devaluing of their years of study/practice/training and accumulated expertise because anyone can do this. Medical researchers have the same professional vanity being presented with a simple observation allows a researcher to conclude theres something interesting here without having to justify why a non expert may be mistaken. Submitting to rsearcher an uncontrolled, unsupervised test of an off prescription drug as evidence of something important, risks both sparking a vanity reaction at an amateur invasion of the researcher's professional purview, and horror at (in their perception) a bunch of internet cranks encouraging potential drug misuse.

Perception is everything if you want people to take you seriously, and while it may be galling to have to suppress expression of ones own intelligence and inventiveness flattering the professional egos of others is nevertheless frequently the best way to get heard.

IVI

 

[Smygen]

From memory, leaky gut involves damage to the gut wall lining, which would take at least a week to heal. I would imagine complete healing would taken much longer.

From what i've heard...... it takes a year to heal. But that is with a proper diet and treatment.

 

[Marco]

Have you ever seen the look on the face of a mechanic who is presented with a breakdown where the vehicle owner has had a go at fixing it themselves ? Or heating engineer called into mend a boiler where the home owner has tried a DIY repair, or an Attorney picking up a legal case that their client has kicked off without taking advice ? Apart from the very obvious failings, in each of these cases the professional is faced with an implied undermining of their professions competence a devaluing of their years of study/practice/training and accumulated expertise because anyone can do this. Medical researchers have the same professional vanity being presented with a simple observation allows a researcher to conclude theres something interesting here without having to justify why a non expert may be mistaken. Submitting to rsearcher an uncontrolled, unsupervised test of an off prescription drug as evidence of something important, risks both sparking a vanity reaction at an amateur invasion of the researcher's professional purview, and horror at (in their perception) a bunch of internet cranks encouraging potential drug misuse.

Perception is everything if you want people to take you seriously, and while it may be galling to have to suppress expression of ones own intelligence and inventiveness flattering the professional egos of others is nevertheless frequently the best way to get heard.

IVI

We are constantly conducting our own amateur trials in trying the various supplements and protocols which offer a 'cure' in the absence of any alternative and are after all 'consenting adults'.

I'm sure you would also agree that medications prescribed by GPs for symptomatic relief are often on the basis of 'lets just try this and see' and often cause us more problems than they resolve (I could give you two examples of my own anecdotally).

But your point is well made and taken.

That being the case, how would you suggest that we encourage serious researchers to look into issues such as this when all we have is a series of anecdotes?

 

[Lala]

Perhaps, there is a difference if mechanic surely knows how to repair your car and Attorney knows how to win the lawsuit, but what about if they do not? Perhaps you have been to tens or hundreds of mechanics and Attorneys and they told you they could not do anything for you or they did the situation even worse. Would you then try to repair your car according to internet advice or would you throw your favourite car off the cliff? Would you let yourself go to the jail and do not defend when you are innocent?

I would be probably dead if I have not read internet discussions and pools. They were far more helpful than whatever professional in my country.

 

[RustyJ]

I think a place to gather info on the use of medications plus some sort of attempt to compare dosages and reactions can only help. After all if we don't do it who will? People are going to try these things anyway. This is a bit like the "don't use ARVs, because they could harm you" argument. I have waited 22 years for Joe Blow GP to help me out. I'm all for it. We need as much info and ease of access to it as we can get. Go for it.

 

[orion]

Have you ever seen the look on the face of a mechanic who is presented with a breakdown where the vehicle owner has had a go at fixing it themselves ? Or heating engineer called into mend a boiler where the home owner has tried a DIY repair, or an Attorney picking up a legal case that their client has kicked off without taking advice ? Apart from the very obvious failings, in each of these cases the professional is faced with an implied undermining of their professions competence a devaluing of their years of study/practice/training and accumulated expertise because anyone can do this. Medical researchers have the same professional vanity being presented with a simple observation allows a researcher to conclude theres something interesting here without having to justify why a non expert may be mistaken. Submitting to rsearcher an uncontrolled, unsupervised test of an off prescription drug as evidence of something important, risks both sparking a vanity reaction at an amateur invasion of the researcher's professional purview, and horror at (in their perception) a bunch of internet cranks encouraging potential drug misuse.

Perception is everything if you want people to take you seriously, and while it may be galling to have to suppress expression of ones own intelligence and inventiveness flattering the professional egos of others is nevertheless frequently the best way to get heard.

IVI

Who cares what they think?

I have made a delibrate calculated decision to bypass healthcare professionals altogether. This is not a decision I reached lightly. However, I'm tired of being patronised, ignored, fobbed off, and being denied prescriptions for treatments that I wish to try.

The rules of engagement that underpin a traditional doctor/patient relationship are no longer acceptable to me. As a consequence, I'm forced to go it alone.

I now do my own research and, if necessary, use internet pharmacies to obtain drugs without a prescription. I accept there are risks associated with doing this. But that's my choice. If any doctors out there feel threatened by what I'm doing then tough. That's their problem not mine.

The reality is that I am calling the medical profession's competence (and ethics) into question and I don't care whether they know it. I accept that there are some individual doctors trying to help us. But collectively, the behaviour of the medical profession towards ME patients has been an utter disgrace. They've let me and thousands of other patients down over many decades.

 

[Lala]

Who cares what they think?

I have made a delibrate calculated decision to bypass healthcare professionals altogether. This is not a decision I reached lightly. However, I'm tired of being patronised, ignored, fobbed off, and being denied prescriptions for treatments that I wish to try.

The rules of engagement that underpin a traditional doctor/patient relationship are no longer acceptable to me. As a consequence, I'm forced to go it alone.

I now do my own research and, if necessary, use internet pharmacies to obtain drugs without a prescription. I accept there are risks associated with doing this. But that's my choice. If any doctors out there feel threatened by what I'm doing then tough. That's their problem not mine.

The reality is that I am calling the medical profession's competence (and ethics) into question and I don't care whether they know it. I accept that there are some individual doctors trying to help us. But collectively, the behaviour of the medical profession towards ME patients has been an utter disgrace. They've let me and thousands of other patients down over many decades.

I totally agree with you. I would not write it better.
Who cares? I absolutely do not.

 

[globalpilot]

I also agree with you. Unfortuntatly I still need doctors for certain things like ultrasound for my kidney stones, ferritin measured but I think that's about it. And when I travel to Asia I am able to get these done w/o a script and it is so wonderful.

GP

I totally agree with you. I would not write it better.
Who cares? I absolutely do not.