Transdermal B12 oils

[garyfritz]

@picante, I'm not sure what's going on here.

* I'm 99 percent certain that the methyl oil used to be deep blood red, just like the ad/me oil. That's why I asked for confirmation from other people who had ordered the methyl previously. Maybe I'm hallucinating.
* Greg does say the methyl is supposed to be pink, which confuses me. Methylcobalamin is red. All the other b12 liquids I have ever used (injected, drops, sprays) are deep red. And most of those are about 1mg/ml, whereas the methyl oil is 3mg/ml. Why would it be a fairly pale pink?? It makes sense that the ad/me oil (10 mg/ml of ad & me) is darker than the methyl, but...
* I haven't felt right since my last (I think red) methyl ran out. Don't know if it's something with the pink methyl, or something else. If my 3/day ad/me test works better, that will make me wonder if somehow my previous methyl was mislabeled ad/me. That seems really unlikely but I don't know how else to explain it.

 

[ahmo]

Today is my third day using the deep red MethylB12 oil. Day 2, yesterday, I used 1 pump in early AM, no other B12, w/ my regularly divided doses of folate 3 times/day. Feel great. My life in the world has been very overwhelming these last 2 weeks, so I can't say whether I'm feeling better or same w/ the oil. But at the very least, I'm getting the same coverage from 1 squirt of oil as I did w/ CL tablets, twice daily, w/ the accompanying pink, pasty gums. And the price seems to be nearly equivalent. (as I recall CL 5mg tabs is about $13/bottle, I used 2 +bottles/month). Color me

 

[garyfritz]

That's great, @ahmo! Hope it continues!

But wait, did you just get your methyl oil? And it's deep red??

You're getting a good deal if you get CL 5mg for $13/bottle. I've been taking a lot of CL with my recent problems, and I just picked up a bottle at Whole Foods for about $22.

 

[ahmo]

Hi gary. You're right, not $13, but close. $15.36
http://www.iherb.com/Country-Life-G...en-US&w=country life B12&rc=1462&sr=null&ic=4

Yes, methyl oil, just arrived, deep red. I had earlier purchased a bottle of California Extracts B12 sublingual liquid, hoping to use it as inhalation. It's the same dark red. there's no way I would call this pink.

 

[garyfritz]

Well, this continues to get more confusing, but it's probably my goof.

Greg responded and explained the details of the light-absorption spectra for methyl and adeno, saying that and the concentration differences were why the methyl HAS to be lighter and pinker than the ado/me. FYI here's a not-great picture of ado/me (left) and methyl (right). They didn't squirt out into consistent patterns, but you can see that the methyl is distinctly pinker, and it's also more translucent. It's even more noticeable in my hand.

Greg also assured me that I originally ordered only ado/me. I checked my Paypal account history, and sure enough the invoice from the original order said Sue and I ordered 3 ado/me. I had intended to order 2 ado + 1 methyl, but I goofed on the order process and orderd 3 ado/me. I sent an email asking them to change it, but the records said 3 ado/me.

BUT then I emailed Sue saying "The oils are here! And they got my request and sent 2 ado/me + 1 methyl." Sue took the methyl, but then a week later we swapped. Then Sue had an ado/me and (I THOUGHT) I had one of each. That's what I was using when I felt so good -- but they were both dark red. I've been doing 1/day dark-red ad/me and 2/day pink methyl for the last 2 weeks, and I've felt lousy. Apparently I really need the adeno??

So it's a confused mess. Under the assumption that the dark-red I was using 3/day was actually all ad/me -- due to who-knows-what mixup -- I reverted back to that 2 days ago. That's also what Greg just recommended; he says he's not a fan of using all-methyl. It originally took me about 3-4 days to start feeling a lot better, so I'm hoping it kicks in soon.

Now why @ahmo's methyl is dark red, I cannot imagine.........

 

[picante]

Hmmm, the plot thickens, @garyfritz ! I hate it when what probably happened doesn't agree with what I'm convinced happened. Your picture is helpful, anyway.

I got my oils today and used the Ado/Me early this eve. It looks like the more intense red on the left, as you'd expect. I'll let you know what the other looks like. Both types are clearly labeled, and I don't see how you & Sue could mix them up.

The first thing that happened, 15 minutes after applying the oil, was a shooting nerve pain in my right foot. I was having those sporadically last weekend, and hypothetically attributed it to too much AdoB12 (Dibencozide) at a time, whereupon I split the dose further. Tonight, though, I also have mild tingling in my right leg (which is not at all unpleasant -- it has a warm quality).

Is this an unusual response to AdoB12? Is it an indication of needing more of something else?

 

[ahmo]

Weird. Mine is definitely MB12 only, and in my imagination, I'd say it appears even more red than the pict on left. I'm not going to squirt it now, and tomorrow's my day off, my AdB12 day. But I'll be paying very close attention in very good lighting the day after and let you know. I would have called the color something like garnet...yes, here's what I find when I searched garnet:

I'm super happy with this oil. So glad you brought it to our attention and were the first guinea pig.

 

[garyfritz]

I can't take credit for the guinea pig service. @Lynn_M had been using the oil for a year when I found out about it. I just publicized it a bit.

I'm so glad it's working for you, @ahmo! It was fantastic for me when it was working. I'm hoping that, now that I've switched to 3x ado/me, I'll get back to feeling good again. Last night was the best night's sleep I've had in weeks. I woke at 1am with no serious symptoms and went back to sleep without ANY CL, first time that's happened in a while. Woke again at 3am twitchy & agitated, took some CL and it didn't help, so I figured "in for a penny, in for a pound," and took another dose of ado/me. Within 5 minutes I had the "aahhhhh" reaction as my muscles relaxed and the tension drained out of my body. Good sign!

So now I have some methyl that doesn't really work for me. I'm wondering if I could combine it with sublingual adenosylB12 to get the same result as the ado/me oil?

I am totally puzzled why your methyl is garnet red... Notice the color of your ado/me and see if it seems the same.

@picante, I've not heard of shooting pains from ado/me, but I am no expert... Greg would be the one to ask for that.

 

[ahmo]

Notice the color of your ado/me and see if it seems the same.

I don't have any ado/me, if that's what you mean.

 

[garyfritz]

Ah -- when you said tomorrow was your AdB12 day, I thought you meant you had some ado/me oil.

 

[ahmo]

Nope,Anabol Naturals Dibencoplex sublinguals.

 

[picante]

@garyfritz, here you go. I just squirted my first dose of MeB12 oil, and it's not the same color as the Ado/MeB12. It's pink (click on the photo):

 

[picante]

So now I have some methyl that doesn't really work for me. I'm wondering if I could combine it with sublingual adenosylB12 to get the same result as the ado/me oil?

I'll bet you can. I'm going to experiment with that (and also the inverse -- Ado/MeB12 oil plus sublingual MeB12 from Enzymatic Therapy.

 

[forbius]

Funny, I was just going to post something about this and saw this thread was already here.

I made my own transdermal B12 solution with a single 5mg methylcobalamin tablet (swanson brand, if anyone cares) and some DMSO in a perfume bottle. It works. Got the same switched-on feeling as when I first started doing b12 suppositories, but the feeling is more potent at a much lower dose (a single spray was probably ~250mcg).

To be honest I'd probably prefer a round-the-clock solution; a patch in other words. But all the patches I can find have folic acid on them and they're not cost effective.

 

[garyfritz]

@forbius, the oils we're talking about have the advantage of fairly slow absorption. They're supposed to last for 8 hours or more. Most/many people do well with only one dose per day. I need 3/day at this point, but in theory once I get out of the "acute deficiency" stage I should be able to back off to less. I'd be a little uncomfortable about soaking up the binders &etc in the tablet, plus DMSO is something to be careful with. But glad it's working for you!

@picante, glad SOMEthing is making sense in this confusing mess!! LOL

 

[forbius]

Anyone know if there is anywhere on the body you can apply transdermal supplements that it would pass straight into the nervous system, like the head, neck or spine, or does it still have to cross the BBB the way it usually would? I tried applying it to those areas right now and I feel like i've taken too much, my brain feels like it is lit up bright and hot (for lack of a better way of describing it).

Another question: anyone know if very high meth-b12 levels in blood could also raise levels in the saliva? I know for a fact that it reacts with sublingual b12 on my amalgams due to experience, and wondering if it could do the same with an indirect route.

@forbius, the oils we're talking about have the advantage of fairly slow absorption. They're supposed to last for 8 hours or more. Most/many people do well with only one dose per day. I need 3/day at this point, but in theory once I get out of the "acute deficiency" stage I should be able to back off to less. I'd be a little uncomfortable about soaking up the binders &etc in the tablet, plus DMSO is something to be careful with. But glad it's working for you!

I did have that concern myself, i'm not sure if some of the larger particles can be carried across the skin though. Has anyone ordered bulk pure meth-b12? I know I can get it off of alibaba, but it doesn't inspire confidence when the page for a product says both methylcobalamin and cyanocobalamin. I wonder if anyone could vouch for a particular seller.

Also these perfume bottles are giving me grief. If the liquid gets too dense (I added more tablets per dmso when I made my second attempt) the liquid can't get through the tube. I ended up breaking the squirting mechanism. Time to hit ebay again for something more appropriate.

 

[garyfritz]

Making our own penetration enhancers to mix with B12 = homemade transdermal B12?
I'm interested in trying this on my own. ...
Problem is, I'm not the best judge as to the effectiveness, because I'm not consistently responsive to B12. ...
I'd like to find a method that doesn't involve holding something in my mouth anymore.

@South, I've been meaning to respond to this. Not ignoring you, I just haven't had time to give a proper response.

I agree with your intent to make a DIY product so you don't rely on anyone else, and I also agree with not wanting to have to have a mouthful of pills all day.

I think you're on the right track with your recipe. Alcohol and water are both supposed to work equally well to deliver B12 transdermally. Not sure if the lavender oil is necessary. B12 is not oil-soluble, so I don't think adding the lavender oil will contribute anything but a nice smell -- or, maybe, penetration as you suggest.

I'd bet there are surfactants that would be more friendly to soak into your skin. (Coconut oil or similar?) Failing that, go for a really mild natural soap with a minimum of chemicals.

And obviously the purest B12 you could get. But that seems to be hard to come by.

Let us know how it works out! I'd volunteer to be a guinea pig for you, since I *am* very responsive to B12. But I'm still struggling to get my body functioning properly again, and I'm really not willing to risk knocking myself off-kilter again.

 

[South]

@garyfritz As of about 4 days ago I started using this concoction:
A crushed enzymatic therapy brand MB12 tablet, a little water, a couple of drops of castile soap, a drop of lavender oil. Mixed, and half of it rubbed on skin, other half used the next day.

This mimics the half-tablet maintenance dose I'd previously been taking sublingually, of that brand of tablet.

I haven't noticed anything different from it - but then I'm the type who usually doesn't notice anything from sublingual use of the same brand of mb12 either.

At least nothing bad happened - the combination didn't itch or make me explode or anything like that!

 

[Gyre]

I got my Me/Ad B12 oil in about 5 days ago. It is definitely the darker red as opposed to the pink. Loving it so far. At this point, one squirt seems to do me.

 

[sueami]

@garyfritz, I didn't think to mention it to you when we switch bottles, but I do remember being confused by the label on the Methyl b12 bottle I gave you. the ingredient list on in listed Adenosyl and Methyl, even though the label on the other side said just Methyl. I think it is possible that bottle was mislabeled. If you still have it, you could double check.