Too much methylation. I'm dessesperate

[yellowspain]

Hello. I have been poisoned by drinking sam-e. I think I've gone from being undermethylated to overmethylated. I'm scared because I have nutritional symptoms, there are days when I feel panic. In the blood tests I have had, my vitamin B12 is elevated (out of range) and my vitamin B9 is low, although within normal values. I don't know if this could be affecting me.

I would like to ask you for advice on supplements, I have read about niacin, has anyone tried it? Which niacin is better, the one that does not cause blushing or the normal one?

I would also like to know what tests I can undergo. Sam-e/sah's analysis is not available in my country. On the internet it says that histamine is a good indicator of methylation status. For those overmethylated, have you checked if your histamine is low? Thank you.

 

[Judee]

Dr Ben Lynch recommends niacin for overmethylation. Not exactly your situation but maybe these links will give you some ideas.

https://mthfr.net/overmethylation-and-undermethylation-case-study/2012/06/27/

https://mthfr.net/taking-folate-and-feeling-badly-methylation-requires-balance/2011/11/15/

(I'm having one of my "can't read" times right now so I hopeful these will be helpful to you without steering you wrong. I see he does mention SAM-E in that first post.)

Also take the niacin low and slow. With that there's an uncomfortable flush that I can't handle...it makes it very difficult for me to breathe, so maybe research it to see if niacinamide would also work, if that's the case for you as well. ???

I think Chris Masterjohn also talks about overmethylation in his YT videos and recommends a different supplement as a remedy but I can't remember what that is right now. I'm sorry.

Hope your situation improves soon.

 

[yellowspain]

Hi. Thanks for answering. I'm going to look for the links.

 

[perchance dreamer]

I found SAM-E way too strong for my overly reactive system. It gave me energy, but robbed me of sleep.

 

[spoondragons]

I was considering taking sam-e but i researched it and its not really a good idea because Sam-e is the end product of methylation. if you optimize your methylation you can produce more naturally, through folate and B12 supps... etc. taking sam-e is generally not recommended, because it can lead to serotonin syndrome especially if you're on antidepressants; https://www.verywellhealth.com/same-what-should-i-know-about-it-90004

or if you take supplements like st johns wort https://www.nccih.nih.gov/health/sadenosyllmethionine-same-in-depth

its also linked to one gene in the methylation cycle, COMT thats related to neurotransmitters, if you get the bad effects of it that could be why - the gene can be fast/slow https://theactionablehealth.substack.com/p/an-overview-of-slow-and-fast-comt

ive seen lots of anectodal stuff online about people not feeling great after taking sam-e too. could be a range of those reasons but it seems pretty unregulated. i think its best to just try and produce more naturally.

 

[yellowspain]

Thank for answering.

 

[yellowspain]

@godlovesatrier - I've had 3 different types of sore throats that I can identify. In the early stages of getting ill, I would get a sore throat every time I got over-tired. Also my feet hurt with a burning feeling, as though I had worn ill-fitting shoes, only I hadn't. I eventually identified this as being linked to my adrenal glands and a pantothenic acid deficiency, with the help of a book by Adelle Davis on nutrition. I started taking pantothenic acid, which helped. Be aware though that pantothenic acid can deplete taurine and taurine helps protect the brain against glutamate-induced excitotoxicity (I developed a severe sensitive to msg in all its iterations after many years on pantothenic acid, which was reversed when I stopped the pantothenic acid and started taking taurine).

I'm also prone to strep infections, and for those I use colloidal silver. Antibiotics also work of course but the colloidal silver seems more effective. At one time I had strep with such frequency I would have had to take ABX almost constantly, not a good thing.

And then there are sore throats linked to EBV and other viruses. For this I use andrographis and echinacea.

I don't get blood work each time I get a sore throat. I just go by what seems most likely, and if the andrographis and echinacea don't do the job, then I add in colloidal silver which usually knocks it out;

Have you been tested for strep?

Hi, @Mary How are you? I am learning a lot with the forum. Now I am taking methyl b9 and B12. But they gives me a bad reaction. When I take them, I experience neuropathic pain and generalized pain throughout my body, but at the same time I feel very alert, my intelligence increases, I feel anger and a strange feeling of excitement that is not nervousness or anxiety I read your post about monosodium glutamate, what symptoms did you have?

 

[Mary]

Hi, @Mary How are you? I am learning a lot with the forum. Now I am taking methyl b9 and B12. But they gives me a bad reaction. When I take them, I experience neuropathic pain and generalized pain throughout my body, but at the same time I feel very alert, my intelligence increases, I feel anger and a strange feeling of excitement that is not nervousness or anxiety I read your post about monosodium glutamate, what symptoms did you have?

Hi @yellowspain - my main symptom from monosodium glutamate is severe insomnia, when I eat something with msg for dinner. It doesn't seem to bother me if I have it at breakfast or lunch.

I've heard of other people getting neurological symptoms from msg, but generally not good symptoms like being alert or more intelligent. One woman told me she felt herself just getting spacey and had trouble thinking if she ate msg. They really shouldn't put it in food!

Your symptoms sound to me like over-methylation, especially since you've started taking methyl B9 and B12. I've read that niacinamide is best for overmethylation, but also have read that plain niacin is best. I can't tell you which is better, but my feeling is that niacin is better. See: https://mthfr.net/overmethylation-and-undermethylation-case-study/2012/06/27/

Anyways, if I were you I would try a low dose of niacin - maybe 50 mg. - and see if you feel better, if you flush, etc. And if you do okay with it, you might try increasing the dose.

Here's a post which also has info about treating overmethylation with niacin: https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...tralise-methyl-supplements.54918/#post-920185

 

[almost]

Hello, @yellowspain, I'm sorry you're having these challenges. Figuring out supplements in something we all deal with, and it is not easy.

I was considering taking sam-e but i researched it and its not really a good idea because Sam-e is the end product of methylation. if you optimize your methylation you can produce more naturally

I think this should be your goal. Look at the elements of the methylation cycle and make sure you feed the inputs and to the extent you can, test the steps along the way. That can be challenging, as even specialized tests like NutrEval only test at a couple of points in the cycle. I think many on the forum here can help you figure that out. Then if you identify points where there are breaks in the cycle, you can support those so your body gets to the end point as naturally as possible.

B vitamins are tricky. We tend to see them as isolates but they all work together. Adelle Davis, an old-school nutritionist advises against taking them in isolation, saying that boosting one will create deficiencies in the others. I think that is generally true, unless you have a clear breakdown in absorption or usage. I do with B12, due to a highly dysfunctional gut. Your extra folate may be throwing something else out of balance.

I am a natural undermethylator, and histamine testing is the best way to track this, I believe. This, however, may be the result of the dysfunctional gut mentioned earlier.

 

[yellowspain]

Hi @yellowspain - my main symptom from monosodium glutamate is severe insomnia, when I eat something with msg for dinner. It doesn't seem to bother me if I have it at breakfast or lunch.

I've heard of other people getting neurological symptoms from msg, but generally not good symptoms like being alert or more intelligent. One woman told me she felt herself just getting spacey and had trouble thinking if she ate msg. They really shouldn't put it in food!

Your symptoms sound to me like over-methylation, especially since you've started taking methyl B9 and B12. I've read that niacinamide is best for overmethylation, but also have read that plain niacin is best. I can't tell you which is better, but my feeling is that niacin is better. See: https://mthfr.net/overmethylation-and-undermethylation-case-study/2012/06/27/

Anyways, if I were you I would try a low dose of niacin - maybe 50 mg. - and see if you feel better, if you flush, etc. And if you do okay with it, you might try increasing the dose.

Here's a post which also has info about treating overmethylation with niacin: https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...tralise-methyl-supplements.54918/#post-920185

Thanks for answering. My homocystein is high. Is having high homocysteine compatible with being an overmethylator?

 

[yellowspain]

Hello, @yellowspain, I'm sorry you're having these challenges. Figuring out supplements in something we all deal with, and it is not easy.


I think this should be your goal. Look at the elements of the methylation cycle and make sure you feed the inputs and to the extent you can, test the steps along the way. That can be challenging, as even specialized tests like NutrEval only test at a couple of points in the cycle. I think many on the forum here can help you figure that out. Then if you identify points where there are breaks in the cycle, you can support those so your body gets to the end point as naturally as possible.

B vitamins are tricky. We tend to see them as isolates but they all work together. Adelle Davis, an old-school nutritionist advises against taking them in isolation, saying that boosting one will create deficiencies in the others. I think that is generally true, unless you have a clear breakdown in absorption or usage. I do with B12, due to a highly dysfunctional gut. Your extra folate may be throwing something else out of balance.

I am a natural undermethylator, and histamine testing is the best way to track this, I believe. This, however, may be the result of the dysfunctional gut mentioned earlier.

Thanks. I am taking alone because I am defficient in b9, so I want to correct It, and I thought that taking all b vitamins could make my b9 deficiency worst.

I kwok my homocystein IS high, so the problem IS there, and may be connected with my low folate.

 

[JES]

Thanks for answering. My homocystein is high. Is having high homocysteine compatible with being an overmethylator?

The opposite. Deficiencies in folic acid, B6 and B12 or inability to convert and utilize certain forms of them is what causes high homocysteine. The whole over/undermethylation concept is IMO a bit pseudoscientific, but it is undermethylation that is supposed to cause high homocysteine, not overmethylation.

I would not focus too much on the over/undermethylation theories and instead on concrete things like getting your homocysteine level down if it's too high and simply avoid large doses of B-vitamins if they make you feel worse. Many of us cannot tolerate B-vitamins in supplement form at all other than RDA doses. They do increase my anxiety and neuropathy as well.

 

[yellowspain]

The opposite. Deficiencies in folic acid, B6 and B12 or inability to convert and utilize certain forms of them is what causes high homocysteine. The whole over/undermethylation concept is IMO a bit pseudoscientific, but it is undermethylation that is supposed to cause high homocysteine, not overmethylation.

I would not focus too much on the over/undermethylation theories and instead on concrete things like getting your homocysteine level down if it's too high and simply avoid large doses of B-vitamins if they make you feel worse. Many of us cannot tolerate B-vitamins in supplement form at all other than RDA doses. They do increase my anxiety and neuropathy as well.

Thanks for answering. When I told the doctor that I felt bad, he looked at me with a strange face and I attributed it all to psychological problems. I see that there are more people with problems with group b vitamins.

 

[yellowspain]

Hello everyone, I have questions about supplementing with B9 and B12, I don't know in what proportion they should be taken, more B12 than B9 or the other way around? Should vitamin B12 be taken minutes before folate? I have read in the forum that you have to keep the b12 sublingual for about 60 minutes, for me it dissolves in just 5 minutes, am I doing something wrong?