Tirzepatide, a weight loss drug that actually works

[Hip]

To suggest that those who have used psychedelics have lost rationality and/or intelligence, is arrogant.

You don't seem to be reading what I have written. People having psychedelic trips lose rationality during those trips, that's what I actually wrote. That's really the whole point of psychedelics (and mindfulness meditation too) if you are using them for spiritual enlightenment: to transcend the rational mind.

I did not say that people who have used psychedelics have lost rationality (although you do get many people who get HPPD from psychedelic use, which is a disturbing condition; so as with any drugs, there are benefits and side effects).

 

[IThinkImTurningJapanese]

You don't seem to be reading what I have written.

I read everything you write. Again, I respect your opinion.

You have very little experience with psychedelics. Stop referring to those using them as irrational.

 

[Hip]

You have very little experience with psychedelics.

Most people I know who have taken psychedelics have not actually read any of the philosophy of mind, psychology, science of consciousness, and great mystical literature of various religions that are prerequisite for actually understanding the psychedelic experience. Any kid can take a tab of LSD; it requires no education to do that. But the experience they have they can not talk about articulately, as they do not have the language and concepts to describe their experience.

One has to do the right background reading to even understand what we mean by the rational mind, and how it contrast for example the intuitive mind.

Jung is a good person to read regarding rational vs intuitive. It is not an insult to say that psychedelics suppress the rational mind, and boost the intuitive mind, as that's really why people take them.

But we are taking this thread well off track.

 

[Treeman]

I managed to shed nearly all of my excess weight after a two month diet of just 700 kcals a day; but around a year later, I put it all back on again.

That's almost 3kg a week. That's a lot to lose so quickly.

 

[Hip]

That's almost 3kg a week. That's a lot to lose so quickly.

It was actually more like 1.5 kg a week.

I was not so overweight when I was doing these diets, which was about 10 years ago. Then I weighed 83 kg (13.1 stone) and after two months of dieting at 700 kcals a day, went down to 71 kg (11.2 stone).

So that's a loss of 12 kg in two months, or about 1.5 kg a week.


Now my weight has gone up even higher, to 95 kg, and has stabilised at this weight for some years.

Before ME/CFS, I always used to be the same weight, 67 kg (10.5 stone), regardless of what I ate.


I think part of this increase in weight may be due to me taking two drugs that increase prolactin levels.

 

[Treeman]

was not so overweight when I was doing these diets, which was about 10 years ago. Then I weighed 83 kg (13.1 stone) and after two months of dieting at 700 kcals a day, went down to 71 kg (11.2 stone).

Ok. I have the same problem. I've been ill for so long it's hard to quote a previous weight. But, prior to being ill (30 years) I was around 10.5 stone (67kg). I've been as high as 13.5 stone (86kg) and now sit around 12 stone (76kg). I eat a low carb diet and still can put weight on.

I have also lost loads of muscle mass, so the amount of fat I have will be much higher then previously.

I read an article some time ago that says as we age we naturally put about 1ilb on per year. Although there's nothing natural about ME/CFS.

I used to lose weight quite easy on the low carb diet but after I had a nasty bout of covid I don't lose weight as easy. I have even gone carb free and only lost .25 of a pound per week.

My target is about 71kg, so I'm also going to have to practice a low calorie diet.

 

[Hip]

I read an article some time ago that says as we age we naturally put about 1ilb on per year.

It's possible that there's something about getting older which leads to putting on weight.

But I am rather partial to the viral theory of obesity: when mice are infected with a virus called adenovirus 36, these mice become rapidly obese. And this same virus has been found in overweight humans. Some researchers have postulated that adenovirus 36 and similar viruses may be behind the global obesity epidemic, which began in the 1980s, and has spread all over the world.


Adenovirus 36 causes obesity by infecting fat cells, and causing a dysfunction of those cells so that they store more fat.

Fat in the body is only stored within these fat cells (adipocytes they are called), so if you are putting on weight from fat, it's only because the adipocytes are storing more fat within them, or because these cells are multiplying in number, so that there are more fat-storing cells.

So I suspect when people become obese, there are mechanisms in the body which are causing this, and those dysfunctional mechanisms may be due to a chronic viral infection.

 

[Treeman]

But I am rather partial to the viral theory of obesity: a virus called adenovirus 36,

I'm still thinking about this.

All the talk of undoubted high calorie food and drinks, and sedentary life styles wiped away by this theory?

I guess one way to support this would to have data on fat tissue samples taken and analysed from pre 1980's that are adv36 free, or confirmation of a different varient etc. Do any exist?

 

[Hip]

All the talk of undoubted high calorie food and drinks, and sedentary life styles wiped away by this theory?

Yeah, once I read the adenovirus 36 research, I realised that obesity is in all probability a biological disease, just like diabetes and any other chronic disease.


Although it's likely that the increasing abundance of food also plays a role in the obesity epidemic. Food has become cheaply abundant in the last 50 years or so, thanks to high efficiency modern production methods.

If you had a metabolic disorder which caused you to put on fat, you may not become obese if you lived in an environment where food is scarce. Go back about 80 years, and most people only had meat once a week or so.

So I think if someone has a metabolic disorder which makes them retain too much fat, the abundance of food tends to bring that issue to the fore.

However, even with the current food abundance, there are many people who remain lean without ever needing to diet. Their metabolism just functions properly. You see this in families: some families have one child who is obese at a young age, whereas their siblings are lean.

So I don't think the abundance of food is the primary cause.


Just as with ME/CFS, I think there are a lot of misconceptions about obesity, especially when people are blamed for their obesity, and their lack of restraint in eating. I'd like to see more hardcore scientific research, and less of simplistic views on obesity that blame the individual.

Some people do overeat, it's true. But then that may be more to do with dysfunctions in appetite control, which may point to issues with the hypothalamus, the main area in the brain for controlling appetite.

 

[BrightCandle]

I have been watching a guy called Thomas Delauer for a while and he does a lot of quick reviews of exercise and biochemistry research looking at weight loss but other topics too. Anyway he presented 3 papers of interest in his recent videos about weight loss comparing the effect of exercise and introduced a concept of energy flux. It is bad news for ME/CFS sufferers because the simple effect of turning over energy with exercise is enormously helpful at loosing weight.

If the research is replicated it might also put the nail into the coffin of calories in = calories out and show that actually we need a higher daily burn of calories and energy consumption and restriction isn't the best approach.

 

[Treeman]

I'd like to see more hardcore scientific research.

Amen to that (including me/CFS)

 

[IThinkImTurningJapanese]

Jung is a good person to read regarding rational vs intuitive. It is not an insult to say that psychedelics suppress the rational mind, and boost the intuitive mind, as that's really why people take them.

But you suggested that those who use psychedelics suffer a reduction in their intelligence. And you demonstrated that you don't really have that much experience in this issue. Although, you have read a lot.

 

[Thebirdman333]

I know a guy who says this immensely helps his MECFS symptoms.

 

[Judee]

Too brain fogged to see if someone posted this article that I saw on the PR news board just a few minutes ago. They're being sued because some have said these meds permanently paralyzed their stomach.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/...tml?ns_mchannel=rss&ns_campaign=1490&ito=1490

 

[EtherSpin]

I know a guy who says this immensely helps his MECFS symptoms.

that makes a lot of sense and it could be different for almost every patient
I've attached a screen shot of the pros/cons/random effects of Semaglutide ("Ozempic") which is the closest alternative to Mounjaro/Tirzepatide and its from this video Dr Gary Linkov wife explains Ozempic mechanisms
when Im in discussion groups there seems to be a split 70/30 people who had liver enzyme problems always but resolved on Semaglutide and the smaller group who had a big elevation and had to quit the drug altogether.
Im in Australia where Titzepatide has just arrived and is horrifically expensive for now and Im going back to my doctor who recently helped me discover sleep apnea thats come with weight gain and I was gonna get a machine to help me with that but am going back to basically say "Actually.. that Ozempic you offered to prescribe" - because weight has been my daily fight for around 16 years now with ME/CFS and has obliterated my self esteem where I dont physically want to be in peoples way, avoid mirrors, avoid cameras at any family special events I make it to and so on.
if I could even just stop the *Massive* nightly sugar cravings that make me head towards the kitchen cupboards at 2AM and wont let me back to sleep that would be a huge boon

 

[GreenEdge]

6 Feb 2024 — Currently, lawsuits have been filed concerning the side effects of Ozempic related to the stomach and the muscles of the stomach lining.
Source: Ozempic Lawsuit: What You Need To Know (February Update)

 

[Guwop2]

I know a guy who says this immensely helps his MECFS symptoms.

Was the reason he tried it because he was overweight ? Or did he just try the drug as an experiment?