Tirzepatide, a weight loss drug that actually works

Hip

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In a 72-week clinical trial, a diabetes drug called Mounjaro (tirzepatide) was shown to result in substantial weight loss in those with obesity, with trial participants shedding as much as 20% of their body weight over the trial period.

Those given a once weekly 5 mg tirzepatide injection lost an average of 16 kg after 72 weeks, and those given a 10 mg dose lost 22 kg. People given a placebo injection lost only 2.4 kg.

Article: Diabetes drug leads to notable weight loss in people with obesity – study



I used to be lean, but put on 25 kg since getting ME/CFS, mostly as central obesity, so this drug sounds interesting.

But I think you would have to take it indefinitely, otherwise the weight will probably return. I managed to shed nearly all of my excess weight after a two month diet of just 700 kcals a day; but around a year later, I put it all back on again.
 

Dechi

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I managed to shed nearly all of my excess weight after a two month diet of just 700 kcals a day; but around a year later, I put it all back on again.
That’s a very, very low calorie intake, especially for a man. They say the brain needs 1000 calories per day just to function. I try to stick to 1250 a day and I’m a woman, but it’s very difficult. I would lose weight if I did.

I wish this drug could fix this problem forever. I lost a lot of muscle and gained 20 pounds, but I look like I gained 30 because I’m not toned anymore.
 

BrightCandle

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Does intermittent fasting work for ME? I mean is it tolerable or is it just too much stress on an already buggered system?

Like you I've put on weight in the same place. So far though it's not a huge amount but it's growing and I already calorie restrict although that often makes me feel worse.
I have certainly done intermittent fasting and it didn't help much. For me at least the only thing that really works to loose weight is the 800 calories daily intake and then the weight comes off. As is I eat quite low calories and it just doesn't work I just gain weight. That or nothing works best for me, I can fast sometimes up to 4 days before I really need to stop but I have found if your body is screaming eat because with ME sometimes fasting and calorie restriction will just make me worse.
 

Hip

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That’s a very, very low calorie intake, especially for a man. They say the brain needs 1000 calories per day just to function. I try to stick to 1250 a day and I’m a woman, but it’s very difficult. I would lose weight if I did.
I did not feel tired on this 700 kcal diet; if anything, I felt vert slightly more energized.

Belly fat is hard to shift, and I suspect it requires this more drastic diet before the body starts burning the belly fat as fuel.

People even go on water fasts to lose weight, where you drink nothing but water each day for a month or two. Human beings are designed to withstand periods without food, as out ancestors would have naturally had to endure times when no food was available.

In the middle of my two months on 700 kcal a day, I actually switched to drinking just water for about 3 days. It was only then that I started to feel like I had less energy; and once I started water fasting, I found myself just sitting on the sofa watching TV, as I did not have sufficient mental energy to do much else.

Interestingly though, during the water fast, my whole state of consciousness drastically changed. Most of us are hardwired to place ourselves as the most important thing in our lives; it's normal to be egocentric like this. But during the water fast, I felt this sort of almost spiritual shift of awareness, where the spotlight of consciousness no longer just focused on just me, but suddenly focused on humanity as a whole. It was as if the spotlight of consciousness was changed from narrow beam to wide beam.

I began to understand why religious prophets of the past would go out to the desert to fast in order to achieve a greater conscious perspective. People use psychedelic drugs to get a shift in perspective, but this water fast seemed better, because you get the shift in consciousness without losing rationality or intelligence.

I wanted to experiment with more water fasting, but the low energy state was off-putting. Maybe if I did not have ME/CFS, water fasting would be more viable.
 
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Hip

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The similar diabetes medication semaglutide (Ozempic) is also very effective for weight loss apparently, and currently hard to get due to it being widely promoted in social media specifically as a weight loss aid.
In the Guardian article I linked to above, it mentions semaglutide, and semaglutide has been described as a "gamechanger" for weight loss. Patients on weekly injections of semaglutide get an average weight loss of 12% after 68 weeks. But with tirzepatide it is a 20% weight loss, so tirzepatide is more effective.


The article offers an explanation for why tirzepatide is more effective:
semaglutide, tirzepatide worked by mimicking hormones in the body that help people feel full after eating and which are often at low levels in people with obesity.

While semaglutide mimics just one hormone, however, tirzepatide mimics two, potentially explaining why the latter appears to have a greater effect.

Semaglutide is actually now available on the UK NHS for weight loss, but unfortunately at the moment only for people with type 2 diabetes.


I could not find tirzepatide available for sale at all online.

Semaglutide is hard to find online, but is available at a few overseas pharmacies, however, it would work out pretty expensive, about $260 a month for the tablets:

https://otc-online-store.com/ozempic-buy-online-semaglutide
https://extrapharmacy.ru/semaglutide-ozempic
https://www.buy-pharma.md/Rybelsus-Semaglutide-p-12479.html
https://www.drugssquare.com/index.p..._virtuemart&view=category&keyword=semaglutide

Some pharmacies sell the semaglutide injections, others sell semaglutide oral tablets. Apparently oral semaglutide 14 mg daily is just as good as 0.5 mg of semaglutide injected once weekly, at least for treating diabetes.
 

BrightCandle

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Semaglutide is hard to find online, but is available at a few overseas pharmacies, however, it would work out pretty expensive, about $260 a month for the tablets:
A water fast is certainly cheaper!

I found fasting wise it was easier with electrolytes, salt abates the hunger pangs and just some salt onto the tongue can be enough to stop the feeling of hunger so you can go longer. Its odd to say but the worst part of fasts is getting to empty, that is when you feel the most hungry, once you are there the hunger dissipates and by the time you do eat some days later you don't really feel hungry at all, its the transition that sucks but it doesn't last.
 

Hip

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You believe those who have used psychedelics have lost rationality and/or intelligence?
During the psychedelic trip itself, certainly. An LSD trip has strong similarities to a psychotic epsiode. After the trip, people usually return to normal.

Although there were some "acid casualties" —people who did not quite return to normal — in the 1960s and 70s, which was the hay-day of experimenting with high doses of LSD.

And about 4% of people who have a history of hallucinogenic drug use develop hallucinogen persisting perception disorder (HPPD). There is one person on the ME/CFS Discord server who unfortunately developed HPPD after just one LSD trip.
 

Hip

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Its odd to say but the worst part of fasts is getting to empty, that is when you feel the most hungry, once you are there the hunger dissipates and by the time you do eat some days later you don't really feel hungry at all, its the transition that sucks but it doesn't last.
That's what I found too. For the first 4 or 5 days, you are craving food. But then afterwards, miraculously you forget about food altogether, so the fast actually does not require much willpower.

I also would get headaches in the first few days of the fast, perhaps caused by toxin release from the tissue, or something like that. But I found that if I ease into the fast, by first cutting out meat and rich foods for a few days before starting the fast, then the headaches would be much less.
 

Dechi

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Does intermittent fasting work for ME? I mean is it tolerable or is it just too much stress on an already buggered system?

Like you I've put on weight in the same place. So far though it's not a huge amount but it's growing and I already calorie restrict although that often makes me feel worse.
That’s what I do everyday, just because that’s how I am wired. I’m not hungry in the morning. So I eat mostly from noon to 6 pm. It’s not making me lose weight, but I believe it’s helping me not gain more.

Unfortunately, with any type of calorie restriction or diet, you will gain back everything you lost when you start eating normally again. That’s why the best is to determine how many calories you need per day and eat what you like, in moderation, while respecting your needed calorie intake. Easier said than done, I’ll grant you.

The main problem is that we can’t be active or train.
 

Hip

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Have you had any experience with LSD? Because I can tell you from experience, it is nothing like you have described.
In my 20s, some of my friends were taking LSD almost every weekend. I enjoyed talking with people while they were tripping, as in some ways I found them on my wavelength, and they seemed to find me on their wavelength (normally people taking LSD do not like to have people in the room who are not tripping).

However, I was too wary to take this drug myself. And generally I have an anti-decadence attitude, and a lot habitual drug users (including heavy alcohol drinkers) often develop a decadent downward-spiraling lifestyle. I saw this with many friends, and find it terrible.

But I was very curious about psychedelics, and about 10 years later, I did venture to one LSD trip. And I can confirm it does distort reality, and detaches you from reality. You imagine things are happening that are not actually taking place. And this was on a low dose, lower than the dose which starts causing visual disturbances and hallucinations.

Even Cannabis slightly detaches you from reality. When you smoke Cannabis, you feel that you have some amazing insights, but if you ever try to write these thoughts down, the following day you realize these thoughts were a total load of nonsense!
 
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Even Cannabis slightly detaches you from reality. When you smoke Cannabis, you feel that you have some amazing insights, but if you ever try to write these thoughts down, the following day you realize these thoughts were a total load of nonsense!
:_

Sorry, considering how many of my peers who have created incredible music whilst imbibing.
 
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But I was very curious about psychedelics, and about 10 years later, I did venture to one LSD trip. And I can confirm it does distort reality, and detaches you from reality. You imagine things are happening that are not actually taking place. And this was on a low dose, lower than the dose which starts causing visual disturbances and hallucinations.
So you know nothing about actual experience?

Reality? Psychedelics such as Psilocybin have been very beneficial for those experiencing both chronic illness, and emotional difficulties.
 

Hip

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So you know nothing about actual experience?
No, read my comment again. I am well read on psychedelic culture and science. It's an area of interest of mine.

I used to read all the research by MAPS (Multidisciplinary Association for Psychedelic Studies). One of my major interests before ME/CFS destroyed my brain was the exploration of consciousness, whether through mindfulness meditation (which I did a lot of), yoga (likewise), or mind altering drugs (which I've dabbled in to a degree).

My view is that psychoactive drugs can be helpful, but a lot of people unfortunately use them as shortcuts, and this does not really work. For example, young people who lack confidence might find a chemical crutch in cocaine; but then they become dependent on this drug to supply confidence. Whereas taking the time to build character and expand consciousness through something like meditation actually provides genuine confidence.
 
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No, read my comment again. I am well read on psychedelic culture and science. It's an area of interest of mine.
I have respect for your research into so many topics, I could never disrespect your efforts.

What I am saying is that you don't have experience with psychedelics. To suggest that those who have used psychedelics have lost rationality and/or intelligence, is arrogant. I have used psychedelics and can ensure you, I am far more intelligent than you.

But I enjoy the challenge, as long as you're not attacking those whose lifestyles you disagree with.