Those who have stopped methyl supps due to bad reaction, how long did it take to get back to normal?

[erinnnrisinggg]

Sorry for the late reply @erinnnrisinggg - yes, I find that I too need to continue taking lots of potassium, mostly as coconut water. No question it helps. I'm still taking niacin occasionally too.

To give an update - over 3 months since stopping all supps and I'm stil in the process of a full recovery but not quite there yet. More and more moments of feeling "normal" - even entire days - and the lows are nowhere near as bad as before.

However, I still feel like I'm missing something here. After three months with no supps I would expect to not just be recovered, but so far beyond this episode that I don't even have to think about it anymore. Clearly, though, something went really wrong with my attempt at self treating methylation. My suspicion originally was it was my unusually high ratio of adb12 to mb12 - about 4 to 1. I'm starting to lean towards that conclusion again.

Basically, I was doing totally fine until adb12. And then there were a bunch of weird reactions, but I pushed through and they seemed to go away. I kept upping it until I was taking the whole 8.6mg every other day (so let's say 4 per day), vs only around 1 mg daily of mb12. I knew this was not the norm, but I had my reservations about high dose mb12 and was under the impression that adb 12 was totally safe, but in retrospect this may have been a huge mistake. And since I was doing other things at the same time - more folate, and then the gym - I attributed the extreme fatigue to the latter. But reviewing it in my mind, I remember some fatigue coming on just in the first few weeks of adb12. And I was taking the megadose of adb12 for about 2.5-3 months before my symptoms got so bad I had to cut back and then just stop everything . So maybe I messed something up, and my body is still trying to repair itself.

I'm not sure what to do next. This is just a theory, and besides, I do seem to be getting better just by taking potassium and no methylation supps. But on the other hand, something has always felt "off" about my recovery and I'm wondering if it really was as simple as too much adb12 and not enough mb12. I could try taking a lowish dose of mb12 again (1mg) and see if it helps - I did fine at that dose before - or try something else, like more niacin, or just wait it out. I'm not sure. Opinions welcome, as always.

@jnwp did your methylation protocol possibly induce other nutrient deficiencies? I know freddd talked about potassium as one of the major ones but he also mentioned that other deficiencies pop up along the way for different people (vitamin D, zinc, copper, etc.). In one of his posts, he does give a list of the most likely candidates for deficiency and what some of the symptoms might be. I can't find that post but I found a different one that listed these as important to take along side the protocol:

"A, C (minimum 5000mg), D, E, magnesium, zinc, calcium, selenium, chromium, trace minerals, lecithin (or variants), omega3 oils are all needed before starting the active b12 and folate.” A deficiency in any of these can prevent the protocol from being effective."

Potassium was the biggest issue for me but I also think some other deficiencies popped up (I'm on a multi-mineral now because I suspect zinc, selenium, and chromium were important for me). AdB12 caused one of the biggest potassium drops I have experienced thus far!! I was pounding coconut waters and popping potassium in preparation and I still ended up needing an IV.

I'm working with a Naturopathic Doctor who specializes in genetics right now and he doesn't add in methylation supplements until about 6 to 9 months of working with people. He finds that adding methylation supplements too soon can cause a lot of problems (exacerbating existing inflammation, electrolyte imbalances like potassium, and more ... Ben Lynch has a good writeup of poor reactions to methylfolate). So he works with the patients to reduce inflammation and get the body to a good strong state first and then he adds in things like B12 and methylfolate. Of course, the frustrating thing is that many of us don't get that awesome boost of energy until we're on B12 and folate .... but I'm doing well enough without them for now. I eat beef liver a few times a week to keep up a modest amount of B12 and my energy is okay enough (i.e. I get enough work done to afford my supplements, but don't have much of a social life). I'll keep posting about my experience and let you know if I have any success.

 

[Johnmac]

Like Sherpa, it generally took me about 10 days to recover from crashes. I didn't do anything but stop the supps.

A year ago I switched to the B12 oils, which also means a different protocol - not just a different delivery method. That's been a much smoother ride, & I have had no crashes from it. Which is very welcome as the crashes were horrendous.

I could do no exercise beyond a bit of walking a year ago; PEM was a real problem. By mid-winter (Australia) I was carting rocks 4 hours a day on my farm.

I'm now something like 85% free of CFS. I'm also embarking on low-lectin eating, having just been convinced of the logic by Selfhacked. (I crashed myself late 2016 on histamines from too many fermented foods for gut repair. I'm hypothesising that lectins exacerbated that, & probably lots of other things including CFS.)

 

[Johnmac]

@Sherpa, how long have you been low-lectin, where did you learn about it, & what have the effects been (if you don't mind me asking)?

I'm just beginning it now, after reading Selfhacked's stuff.

@jnwp I am sure you can get back. I have had many ups and downs but as long as I keep a circadian rhythm (to to bed early), eat clean (low lectin), and keep my exercise moderate (avoid excess or egotistical old habits) I am functional, reliable and sociable.

Some things that can fix post-exertion malaise:

- black coffee (tempoerarily)
- d-ribose
- magnesium enema
- waxy maize (rapidly absorbed carb that increases glycogen in muscles)
- liposomal resveratrol
- Niagen - awesome for me

 

[Sherpa]

@Johnmac

I have been avoiding lectins for about 8 months now.

I would say that I noticed some effects of eating "clean" right away but it took me several weeks (4 to 6 ??? maybe) to start to feel the overall difference: a plateau of markedly less inflammation, more brain clarity. I would say the difference is subtle yet profound. If you have nasty infections, toxins, thyroid problems or something major that is making you feel miserable - you probably won't notice the difference. But once you clear those up, and you're feeling mostly OK... the difference is noticeable. Then you become more reluctant to feel crappy from eating conventional foods... and more motivated to do the serious work that shopping, preparing, and planning a clean, low lectin paleo diet involves.

But it is a diet designed for highly sensitive people, and some people will not be sensitive or perceptive enough to notice the reactions. Many times, paradoxically, we are draw or addicted to he foods they are most reactive to. Bars are full of highly inflammation people, eating fried battered foods and drinking gluten beers they are reacting to... but they don't consciously notice... as they are not highly sensitive types.

I found out the foods I personally react to experimenting. Consider the elimination diet. For me I found certain foods are disastrous (wheat, dairy, alcohol), some foods are problematic (quiona, beans, lentils, corn), some are moderately irritating (rice and potatoes), and some are slight but barely problematic (conventional grain fed beef) enough not to be a major issue.


The Lectin avoidance diet is not about commandments, but about guidelines pointing out common "food culprits" to help you experiment and find out what works for you.

 

[jjxx]

Like Sherpa, it generally took me about 10 days to recover from crashes. I didn't do anything but stop the supps.

A year ago I switched to the B12 oils, which also means a different protocol - not just a different delivery method. That's been a much smoother ride, & I have had no crashes from it. Which is very welcome as the crashes were horrendous.

I could do no exercise beyond a bit of walking a year ago; PEM was a real problem. By mid-winter (Australia) I was carting rocks 4 hours a day on my farm.

I'm now something like 85% free of CFS. I'm also embarking on low-lectin eating, having just been convinced of the logic by Selfhacked. (I crashed myself late 2016 on histamines from too many fermented foods for gut repair. I'm hypothesising that lectins exacerbated that, & probably lots of other things including CFS.)

I guess moderation is key. I am curious what type of fermented foods you eat, how much and how often? I consume about one tablespoon of sauerkraut a couple of times in a week, not on daily basis only because I sometimes simply forget.

 

[jjxx]

Like Sherpa, it generally took me about 10 days to recover from crashes. I didn't do anything but stop the supps.

A year ago I switched to the B12 oils, which also means a different protocol - not just a different delivery method. That's been a much smoother ride, & I have had no crashes from it. Which is very welcome as the crashes were horrendous.

I could do no exercise beyond a bit of walking a year ago; PEM was a real problem. By mid-winter (Australia) I was carting rocks 4 hours a day on my farm.

I'm now something like 85% free of CFS. I'm also embarking on low-lectin eating, having just been convinced of the logic by Selfhacked. (I crashed myself late 2016 on histamines from too many fermented foods for gut repair. I'm hypothesising that lectins exacerbated that, & probably lots of other things including CFS.)

Does the B12 oil feel oily on skin?

 

[Sherpa]

Does the B12 oil feel oily on skin?

No. It rubs in well after about 30 seconds. I put it on dry areas like forearm or belly.

 

[Johnmac]

@Johnmac

I have been avoiding lectins for about 8 months now.

I would say that I noticed some effects of eating "clean" right away but it took me several weeks (4 to 6 ??? maybe) to start to feel the overall difference: a plateau of markedly less inflammation, more brain clarity. I would say the difference is subtle yet profound. If you have nasty infections, toxins, thyroid problems or something major that is making you feel miserable - you probably won't notice the difference. But once you clear those up, and you're feeling mostly OK... the difference is noticeable. Then you become more reluctant to feel crappy from eating conventional foods... and more motivated to do the serious work that shopping, preparing, and planning a clean, low lectin paleo diet involves.

But it is a diet designed for highly sensitive people, and some people will not be sensitive or perceptive enough to notice the reactions. Many times, paradoxically, we are draw or addicted to he foods they are most reactive to. Bars are full of highly inflammation people, eating fried battered foods and drinking gluten beers they are reacting to... but they don't consciously notice... as they are not highly sensitive types.

I found out the foods I personally react to experimenting. Consider the elimination diet. For me I found certain foods are disastrous (wheat, dairy, alcohol), some foods are problematic (quiona, beans, lentils, corn), some are moderately irritating (rice and potatoes), and some are slight but barely problematic (conventional grain fed beef) enough not to be a major issue.


The Lectin avoidance diet is not about commandments, but about guidelines pointing out common "food culprits" to help you experiment and find out what works for you.

Thanks a lot @Sherpa - that's a really good insight. I have read all the theory, and the only clinical study I could find - in which Dr Gundry claims to, rather spectacularly, have retired autoimmune disease in all 744 subjects who completed the low-lectin diet over 6 months. But there are no "diaries" or patient reports of any length, so your experience is a real help.

I am presently on Day 3 of Phase 1 of the Selfhacked lectin avoidance diet (withdrawal phase). I.e. no non-paleo foods, but also no nuts, seeds or fruit either. Root veges & tubers, but only pressure-cooked. Organic, grass-fed meat.

It's particularly valuable for me to hear of your timeline. I had no idea how long this diet took to have any effect.

More questions if I may:

1. I presume you are following the Selfhacked lectin avoidance diet?

2. I cured 4 autoimmune diseases with strict paleo from the 1990s (inc. kidney disease & spondylitis), so will probably never go back to grains or dairy. But after my initial low-lectin month, I'll reintroduce foods one by one - nuts and non-pressure-cooked root veges for example. I am unclear about what kind of reactions to expect, & how long they take to show up. What was your experience here? How do you spot them?

3. Improvements: You mention markedly less inflammation & more brain clarity. How did the "less inflammation" manifest?

4. What were the "some effects" you noticed straight away?

5. Has anything autoimmune improved?

6. How about:

Energy?

Circadian rhythms?

Mood?

Food cravings?


7. As well as less inflammation, have you noticed a reduced propensity to inflammation? That is, are there foods that made you react before that don't make you react now?

Sorry for so many questions. I am excited by the diet (the Gundry study was a mind-blower); & I also need a bit of inspiration with it, as there are no case studies other than Joe Cohen (Mr Selfhacked) himself.

 

[Johnmac]

I guess moderation is key. I am curious what type of fermented foods you eat, how much and how often? I consume about one tablespoon of sauerkraut a couple of times in a week, not on daily basis only because I sometimes simply forget.

I don't eat any fermented foods now, as I crashed myself badly on histamine recently. Before that I was eating yogurt, kefir, sauerkraut, kimchi and kombucha - much of it home-made. Usually one or two of the above 2-3 times a day.

Several years of eating all that, plus high stress (very pro-histamine), plus lots of tea (breaks down DAO, which degrades histamine), plus eating lots of leftover meat from the frig (builds up histamine) pretty much gave me the perfect storm.

It was researching histamine that got me on to lectins (which predispose you to histamine problems).

I take a lot more prebiotics now - which is a better idea anyway, & 1 prebiotic supplement. I will get back to probiotics very carefully in a few months (histamine seems to take forever to clear). After all it was yogurt I cultured from L. rhamnosus that allowed me to transition from low-FODMAP foods back to normal ones. (Shortly before it poisoned me with histamine.)

But I think my days of eating lots of yogurt etc are behind me.

 

[jjxx]

I don't eat any fermented foods now, as I crashed myself badly on histamine recently. Before that I was eating yogurt, kefir, sauerkraut, kimchi and kombucha - much of it home-made. Usually one or two of the above 2-3 times a day.

Several years of eating all that, plus high stress (very pro-histamine), plus lots of tea (breaks down DAO, which degrades histamine), plus eating lots of leftover meat from the frig (builds up histamine) pretty much gave me the perfect storm.

It was researching histamine that got me on to lectins (which predispose you to histamine problems).

I take a lot more prebiotics now - which is a better idea anyway, & 1 prebiotic supplement. I will get back to probiotics very carefully in a few months (histamine seems to take forever to clear). After all it was yogurt I cultured from L. rhamnosus that allowed me to transition from low-FODMAP foods back to normal ones. (Shortly before it poisoned me with histamine.)

But I think my days of eating lots of yogurt etc are behind me.

That does sound a lot...
I not only find moderation is key, but also alternating benefits too. For instance, I alternate coffee and tea every other day.
Glad you mentioned prebiotics, since I am experimenting them myself recently. My first trial is with potato starch which left me with some puzzle. Unlike most people who must go slowly to build up intake to avoid almost surely gas, I seem to be able to gobble down many without an effect. Probably unlike most people, I have microbes in my intestines capable of decomposing the starch? That's not good, isn't it? Then I switch to larch extract, 2 pills a day. I wish I have more information to share but I honestly don't know what to expect.
As for B12 oil, do you feel any oil residuals on your hands or skin?

 

[Johnmac]

That does sound a lot...
I not only find moderation is key, but also alternating benefits too. For instance, I alternate coffee and tea every other day.
Glad you mentioned prebiotics, since I am experimenting them myself recently. My first trial is with potato starch which left me with some puzzle. Unlike most people who must go slowly to build up intake to avoid almost surely gas, I seem to be able to gobble down many without an effect. Probably unlike most people, I have microbes in my intestines capable of decomposing the starch? That's not good, isn't it? Then I switch to larch extract, 2 pills a day. I wish I have more information to share but I honestly don't know what to expect.
As for B12 oil, do you feel any oil residuals on your hands or skin?

I don't understand the starch business very well - I just eat what experts say to eat. I don't know why you handle it well - but it could be a very good thing?

I haven't tried potato starch yet as nightshades are out in the above diet - tho I just read they have minimal carb or protein, so presumably minimal things that can harm me like lectins.

The oil stayed on my skin for a while until I understood that you need to rub and rub until it was all gone. Now I do still feel a bit of greasiness on my fingers, but it only lasts a few mins. In the interests of getting my money's worth I don't wash it off.

 

[jnwp]

@jnwp did your methylation protocol possibly induce other nutrient deficiencies? I know freddd talked about potassium as one of the major ones but he also mentioned that other deficiencies pop up along the way for different people (vitamin D, zinc, copper, etc.). In one of his posts, he does give a list of the most likely candidates for deficiency and what some of the symptoms might be. I can't find that post but I found a different one that listed these as important to take along side the protocol:

"A, C (minimum 5000mg), D, E, magnesium, zinc, calcium, selenium, chromium, trace minerals, lecithin (or variants), omega3 oils are all needed before starting the active b12 and folate.” A deficiency in any of these can prevent the protocol from being effective."

@erinnnrisinggg It certainly could have. Vitamin D has always been a bit low, so I guess that's a possibility. I just don't know. There are so many possibilities, and a lot of conflicting information about issues that can come up and treatments. I told myself going into this that it wouldn't happen to me, but here we are. In any event, I'm more or less positive that the protocol did induce some sort of problem, deficiency or not. Still, I'd have expected it to be totally resolved by now, especially after nearly three months megadosing potassium and no supps.

In particular, while my energy is a lot better, I continue to have persistent immune-like symptoms. The coughing, rashes, stomach issues have been gone for some time, but the swollen lymph nodes, drowsiness, organ inflammation/pain, and the overheating/excess sweating/yucky feeling still come back. It hit me pretty hard this afternoon. Then a few hours later, fine. Certainly, the immune system is implicated here. But I don't know how or why - thyroid? Histamine? Viral reactivation? I feel overwhelmed trying to sort it out in my head. I've been hoping it'd just correct itself but I don't know how long that will take or what to do about it now (sorry for the venting).

Potassium was the biggest issue for me but I also think some other deficiencies popped up (I'm on a multi-mineral now because I suspect zinc, selenium, and chromium were important for me). AdB12 caused one of the biggest potassium drops I have experienced thus far!! I was pounding coconut waters and popping potassium in preparation and I still ended up needing an IV.

Ouch! Just how bad were your potassium symptoms before the Adb12? That's where my problems started. My original thinking was that it was totally safe, and did nothing except help with ATP production. But literally within hours I had an immune response (skin inflammation). I don't know if this was potassium related or not, but it should have been my first clue that I needed to proceed carefully. BTW, how long do you normally have to wait to see an effect after drinking coconut water or taking another form of potassium? I do seem to feel better in the hours after drinking it.

I'm working with a Naturopathic Doctor who specializes in genetics right now and he doesn't add in methylation supplements until about 6 to 9 months of working with people. He finds that adding methylation supplements too soon can cause a lot of problems (exacerbating existing inflammation, electrolyte imbalances like potassium, and more ... Ben Lynch has a good writeup of poor reactions to methylfolate). So he works with the patients to reduce inflammation and get the body to a good strong state first and then he adds in things like B12 and methylfolate. Of course, the frustrating thing is that many of us don't get that awesome boost of energy until we're on B12 and folate .... but I'm doing well enough without them for now. I eat beef liver a few times a week to keep up a modest amount of B12 and my energy is okay enough (i.e. I get enough work done to afford my supplements, but don't have much of a social life). I'll keep posting about my experience and let you know if I have any success.

You're lucky to have a doc who seems to be knowledgeable about methylation. I don't recall ever discussing it with any of my docs until after I decided to go it alone on this protocol. I guess I figured I was doing so well at the time - symptom-free as long as I avoided exercise - that it could only help. But that was misguided thinking. I too did see the initial energy boost, especially from folate, and I think that this is part of what caused me to keep pushing even when I ran into problems. But anyway, enough about me. I hope you see good results. And even though you've had mixed results with methylation, IMO you are doing the right thing by seeking out help from a knowledgeable professional. I think that's a wise step that those who have the means (and I recognize that's not everyone) should take. Please keep us posted - hoping we both reach a place where don't have to think of ourselves as "people with fatigue."

 

[Sherpa]

Thanks a lot @Sherpa - that's a really good insight. I have read all the theory, and the only clinical study I could find - in which Dr Gundry claims to, rather spectacularly, have retired autoimmune disease in all 744 subjects who completed the low-lectin diet over 6 months. But there are no "diaries" or patient reports of any length, so your experience is a real help.

I am presently on Day 3 of Phase 1 of the Selfhacked lectin avoidance diet (withdrawal phase). I.e. no non-paleo foods, but also no nuts, seeds or fruit either. Root veges & tubers, but only pressure-cooked. Organic, grass-fed meat.

It's particularly valuable for me to hear of your timeline. I had no idea how long this diet took to have any effect.

More questions if I may:

1. I presume you are following the Selfhacked lectin avoidance diet?

2. I cured 4 autoimmune diseases with strict paleo from the 1990s (inc. kidney disease & spondylitis), so will probably never go back to grains or dairy. But after my initial low-lectin month, I'll reintroduce foods one by one - nuts and non-pressure-cooked root veges for example. I am unclear about what kind of reactions to expect, & how long they take to show up. What was your experience here? How do you spot them?

3. Improvements: You mention markedly less inflammation & more brain clarity. How did the "less inflammation" manifest?

4. What were the "some effects" you noticed straight away?

5. Has anything autoimmune improved?

6. How about:

Energy?

Circadian rhythms?

Mood?

Food cravings?


7. As well as less inflammation, have you noticed a reduced propensity to inflammation? That is, are there foods that made you react before that don't make you react now?

Sorry for so many questions. I am excited by the diet (the Gundry study was a mind-blower); & I also need a bit of inspiration with it, as there are no case studies other than Joe Cohen (Mr Selfhacked) himself.

@Johnmac

1. Yes, I closely follow the Selfhacked Lectin Avoidance diet. I highly recommend the cookbook.

2. I went on this diet and felt better. I feel worse depending on how much "bad" food I eat and how often. It's a spectrum, not a black or white thing. I found out I can eat a nut bar (with almonds and cashews) every once in a while with no decline but if I eat two of them per day I have GI issues (more gas) and slightly more inflammation. I just feel SLIGHTLY worse. It's hard to notice until you eat very clean as a baseline and see how that feels for a month or more. If I am "starving" and succumb to eating some of the peanuts and popcorn the office secretary brings in - these are more reactive. I feel more cravings (for more popcorn), more brain fog and possibly more GI distress.

3. I mostly notice less brain fog. Generally less uncomfortable. Smoother digestion, regular solid poops, no gas. Possible less body & muscle tension. Overall feeling of clarity and less depression.

4. I felt good within a day or two of eating clean food... but there seemed to be a plateau where the overall inflammation settles down as the body is not constantly having immediate or delayed food intolerances. The immune system or allergic system settles down. One day I just noticed "Wow, I feel clearer and better! Totally worth the (significant) hassle all this shopping and cooking involves"

5. Probably. Hard to say what is what is - since I did Selfhacked-style diet, sleep and supplement changes all at once -- what but I believe my immune system has settled down significantly since following the diet AND taking the Th1 dominant supplements as I had lots of symptoms of that

6. I think not so much energy improvement... mostly improved mood, less inflammation, less GI issues, more good vibes, less "ADD," less subtle depression.

7. No if anything it makes you notice inflammation more. You get really "clear" and notice that virtually EVERY restaurant, store, potluck, party, snack food is kind of bad for you. Before I used to love to eat curry and rice, thought it was healthy. Now I notice that eating rice gives me a slight reaction. It doesn't mean I never eat it, but maybe just once a week or a special occasion where I can afford to be non-high-performance.


hope this helps!

 

[jjxx]

I don't understand the starch business very well - I just eat what experts say to eat. I don't know why you handle it well - but it could be a very good thing?

I haven't tried potato starch yet as nightshades are out in the above diet - tho I just read they have minimal carb or protein, so presumably minimal things that can harm me like lectins.

The oil stayed on my skin for a while until I understood that you need to rub and rub until it was all gone. Now I do still feel a bit of greasiness on my fingers, but it only lasts a few mins. In the interests of getting my money's worth I don't wash it off.

It seems like we are dealing the same issue of histamine but definitely from the two opposite of the spectrum: I am battling with low histamine. Unfortunately I must prioritize, and histamine ends a couple of notches behind many of my others. Since I am low in histamine, I am not sensitive to common allergies like food etc; I am not sensitive to chemicals either, which is a classic sign of histapedia (low histamine). It seems to me you are the opposite: you are sensitive to many foods, but how about chemicals?

 

[jnwp]

Another bad day. Energy was OK, but I went for a walk and I was so hot, sweaty and dizzy, even in the Tokyo winter, that I almost had to stop and go home. Interestingly, after I sat down and had lunch the symptoms basically all went away. This might point towards one of the possible nutrient deficiencies that @erinnnrisinggg alluded to, but I have no idea which one it could be. I take a multivitamin that has a bit of everything in it. Been taking niacin too.

I don't know what to do. I think I need to reach out to some methylation specialists as I'm running out of moves. Going this alone was a big mistake and I'm presently wishing I had just quit while I was ahead instead of messing around with supplements I didn't really need.

 

[Johnmac]

@Johnmac

1. Yes, I closely follow the Selfhacked Lectin Avoidance diet. I highly recommend the cookbook.

2. I went on this diet and felt better. I feel worse depending on how much "bad" food I eat and how often. It's a spectrum, not a black or white thing. I found out I can eat a nut bar (with almonds and cashews) every once in a while with no decline but if I eat two of them per day I have GI issues (more gas) and slightly more inflammation. I just feel SLIGHTLY worse. It's hard to notice until you eat very clean as a baseline and see how that feels for a month or more. If I am "starving" and succumb to eating some of the peanuts and popcorn the office secretary brings in - these are more reactive. I feel more cravings (for more popcorn), more brain fog and possibly more GI distress.

3. I mostly notice less brain fog. Generally less uncomfortable. Smoother digestion, regular solid poops, no gas. Possible less body & muscle tension. Overall feeling of clarity and less depression.

4. I felt good within a day or two of eating clean food... but there seemed to be a plateau where the overall inflammation settles down as the body is not constantly having immediate or delayed food intolerances. The immune system or allergic system settles down. One day I just noticed "Wow, I feel clearer and better! Totally worth the (significant) hassle all this shopping and cooking involves"

5. Probably. Hard to say what is what is - since I did Selfhacked-style diet, sleep and supplement changes all at once -- what but I believe my immune system has settled down significantly since following the diet AND taking the Th1 dominant supplements as I had lots of symptoms of that

6. I think not so much energy improvement... mostly improved mood, less inflammation, less GI issues, more good vibes, less "ADD," less subtle depression.

7. No if anything it makes you notice inflammation more. You get really "clear" and notice that virtually EVERY restaurant, store, potluck, party, snack food is kind of bad for you. Before I used to love to eat curry and rice, thought it was healthy. Now I notice that eating rice gives me a slight reaction. It doesn't mean I never eat it, but maybe just once a week or a special occasion where I can afford to be non-high-performance.

hope this helps!

Thanks once more @Sherpa - it helps bigtime, because there are almost no testimonials out there: it's otherwise all theory. Knowing someone has done it & it works is immensely helpful.

"Not so much energy improvement", but your signature suggests your CFS is in remission from Selfhacked's approach. Could you kindly explain?

I'm in the hair-shirt first month currently - tho actually it's fine & not hard. The only bit I am apprehensive about is re-entering the world of restaurants & other people's food. And reacting to this & that.

Given that Th1 people are supposed to react to foods slowly, I'm not sure how I will know what I'm reacting to - tho you seem to be able to work it out okay. Is it always clear what the culprit is?

Thanks for the tip re the Th1 dominant supps - I'm Th1 dom & so will get some.

ATB...

 

[Sherpa]

"Not so much energy improvement", but your signature suggests your CFS is in remission from Selfhacked's approach. Could you kindly explain?

My energy increased significantly from following the Selfhacked methodology (especially with supplements and practices to increase SIRT1 and NAD+) - but I did not feel a significant energy boost from starting up the Lectin Avoidance Diet in particular.

Given that Th1 people are supposed to react to foods slowly, I'm not sure how I will know what I'm reacting to - tho you seem to be able to work it out okay. Is it always clear what the culprit is?

No it's not always clear what the culprit is! That's why it takes a while to really clear out the system and get in in s state where its aggravated by foods. Figure out a clean, non-reactive diet of "safe" Lectin acoidance diet approved foods you feel great on... the slowly introduce new things and take careful note of how you feel.

Thanks for the tip re the Th1 dominant supps - I'm Th1 dom & so will get some.

Just got the new Selfhacked ebook! Very high quality information on the common causes and fixes of chronic fatigue, inflammation and illness. Detailed and quite technical. In the ebook he has updated info and talks more about Th17 dominance. It has similar symptoms and similar, overlapping herbal fixes to Th1 but he says Th1 is more common in women, Th17 more common in males. I did very well on the Th1 Supplements, regardless, so who knows.

 

[Johnmac]

My energy increased significantly from following the Selfhacked methodology (especially with supplements and practices to increase SIRT1 and NAD+) - but I did not feel a significant energy boost from starting up the Lectin Avoidance Diet in particular.


No it's not always clear what the culprit is! That's why it takes a while to really clear out the system and get in in s state where its aggravated by foods. Figure out a clean, non-reactive diet of "safe" Lectin acoidance diet approved foods you feel great on... the slowly introduce new things and take careful note of how you feel.


Just got the new Selfhacked ebook! Very high quality information on the common causes and fixes of chronic fatigue, inflammation and illness. Detailed and quite technical. In the ebook he has updated info and talks more about Th17 dominance. It has similar symptoms and similar, overlapping herbal fixes to Th1 but he says Th1 is more common in women, Th17 more common in males. I did very well on the Th1 Supplements, regardless, so who knows.

Thanks again @Sherpa.

I've got the new book too - just starting it. (At a glance, it looks too technical for me.)

Regarding "Figure out a clean, non-reactive diet of "safe" Lectin avoidance diet approved foods you feel great on... the slowly introduce new things and take careful note of how you feel." - I'm doing what I understand to be the normal first-month protocol: Eat any non-nightshade vegetable, but pressure cook roots & tubers; meat & fat are fine; no nuts or fruit. Is that how you understand the Phase 1 (first month) diet?

Secondly, how do you know if you need pro-SIRT1 and NAD+ supplements etc? Just from symptoms?

And which ones do you take? (There are very long lists.)

 

[Sherpa]

I just ate a very clean diet... mostly meat, oil, eggs, fish and a few cruceferous veggies (romaine, cucumber, broccoli). Then I experimented adding things back in. Informally. Not super scientific. The cleaner eat the better I feel. The worse, the worse.

You might not be Lectin sensitive, some people not so much. but I was vegetarian long term and surely developed an intolerance. It was noticeable before I ever heard of the diet... the diet just helped me grasp it more clearly.

You might need SIRT1 / NAD+ supplements if your circadian rhythm is screwed up and your energy is low (a.k.a chronic fatigue). In my case I was extremely sensitive to too much sun / UV and I'd crash. Taking resveratrol and Niagen helped fix that. I currently take a Life Extension resveratrol multi-formula called "CR Mimetic" that also has polyphenols, black tea extract, fisetin, etc. it lowers inflammation and provides a noticeable energy lift!

 

[Johnmac]

I just ate a very clean diet... mostly meat, oil, eggs, fish and a few cruceferous veggies (romaine, cucumber, broccoli). Then I experimented adding things back in. Informally. Not super scientific. The cleaner eat the better I feel. The worse, the worse.

You might not be Lectin sensitive, some people not so much. but I was vegetarian long term and surely developed an intolerance. It was noticeable before I ever heard of the diet... the diet just helped me grasp it more clearly.

You might need SIRT1 / NAD+ supplements if your circadian rhythm is screwed up and your energy is low (a.k.a chronic fatigue). In my case I was extremely sensitive to too much sun / UV and I'd crash. Taking resveratrol and Niagen helped fix that. I currently take a Life Extension resveratrol multi-formula called "CR Mimetic" that also has polyphenols, black tea extract, fisetin, etc. it lowers inflammation and provides a noticeable energy lift!

Thanks again. I'll order some resveratol & maybe Niagen. But maybe I'll do a consult with SH first, to make sure I know what I'm doing.

I'm a bit confused about some things - the exact diet for instance, plus when a supplement is recommended for one problem you have but contraindicated for another. I'm sure I'll work thru it - it's a bit of a learning curve.

I'm just going thru SelfDecode currently, trying to figure what all that means.

Thanks again for your time Sherpa - it was really useful to me to hear it from someone who's 8 months ahead of me.

And sorry @jjxx for hijacking your thread.