This is what we're up against

[alex3619]

Wesseley? White? Chalder? Need I go on?

Please do. There are a few scientists who hold similar attitudes as well. Not to mention nurses.

We should try to avoid stooping to their level. We should however be publicly refuting them with research references to back us up. The time to be quiet may be over.

 

[A.B.]

We should however be publicly refuting them with research references to back us up. The time to be quiet may be over.

The IOM report is ammunition. They did a lot of work for us by searching through 9000 papers.

For example:

A study suggesting a role for childhood trauma in ME/CFS used the
broad empirical definition of ME/CFS, which resulted in a biased sample
with overrepresentation of individuals with depression and posttraumatic
stress disorder (PTSD) (Heim et al., 2009). The unusually high proportion
of subjects with serious psychiatric problems likely explains the study finding
of an association between ME/CFS and adverse childhood experiences.
No other studies have suggested a higher rate of childhood trauma in those
with confirmed ME/CFS as opposed to nonspecific chronic fatigue.

 

[Gijs]

At least we know how these medical clowns think. One day they will look really stupid like the time when they thought the earth was flat... I don't get upset by them because it is almost satire.... pff.. these docters are really simple minded... they are jokers.

 

[Gijs]

'' If we have a psychosomatic illness because a physical illness cannot be objectively shown, how is a psychosomatic illness any more valid since it cannot be objectively shown?'' This is a good point Alex... i rest my case

 

[Aurator]

Wesseley? White? Chalder? Need I go on?

My point was specifically that Wessely et al. would not, in 2015, risk saying publicly something as glib and denigrating as:

"Absent hard biological evidence, Chronic Fatigue Syndrome might lots of people as "Sick" who are in monotonous jobs, bad marriages, or plain bored with life."

or

"I can see the profits rising !!!!! Nebulous disease , nebulous exam and no definitive test , prospective patients for life !!!!! Whatever happened to SSRI's ?"

or

"great, disability here I come! glad I got that plan a long time ago."

or

"Everyone has these feelings during their lives...some for a couple months, some for six months, some for much longer, some just handle them better than others."

or

"what a huge pile of crap......bring on the clowns".

 

[Sidereal]

Please remember one can register a Medscape account for free if you think joining the discussion over there and rebutting points in a dispassionate manner would be fruitful.

 

[Ren]

If people wanna keep gathering idiotic/abusive comments from physicians I am happy to keep editing the initial post so that the gallery of shameful stupidity is there for posterity.

A number of us can also do screenshots and privately save/document comments, should anyone want/need them for future legal action, reporting, etc.

 

[anciendaze]

I don't think burnt out suicidal five year olds should have prescribing privileges or the authority to lock people up in psychiatric wards for having severe ME. Bring in mandatory psych evaluations and drug/alcohol testing for doctors every few years. I appreciate medicine is a very stressful profession but that doesn't give them the right to be abusive to patients whose illnesses happen to be poorly understood.

Does anyone here have current rates of substance abuse among practicing physicians. At one time you had about 1 chance in 10 of getting a doctor who had a problem with opiates. I forget the rate of alcoholism. I'm sure current drugs of abuse are different.

Finally, have you ever noticed that celebrities locked up for detox or drug rehab regularly meet doctors who are not there to treat others? Some people are treated by different standards.

 

[Sidereal]

Does anyone here have current rates of substance abuse among practicing physicians. At one time you had about 1 chance in 10 of getting a doctor who had a problem with opiates. I forget the rate of alcoholism. I'm sure current drugs of abuse are different.

Finally, have you ever noticed that celebrities locked up for detox or drug rehab regularly meet doctors who are not there to treat others? Some people are treated by different standards.

I don't know what the rates of substance abuse are amongst practising physicians but anecdotally it's a common problem. Psychiatric disturbance, in particular Cluster B personality disorders, seem fairly common also.

And you're quite right that some people are treated by different standards. Imagine if any one of us launched into a semi-coherent emotional rant like these in a doctor's office. We'd get a psych diagnosis immediately.

 

[Aurator]

I don't get upset by them because it is almost satire.... pff.. these docters are really simple minded... they are jokers.

That's an enviable attitude to have, and half of me endorses it. The only snag is that such simple-mindedness in doctors towards ME has collectively caused untold amounts of measurable distress and suffering to patients over the years. A doctor who is prejudiced against every ME patient he or she meets, and views them as primarily malingerers or psychiatric cases is capable, by virtue of the power he or she can exercise over a patient's life, of doing great harm.

I do not think we should just wave away simple-mindedness of this kind in doctors. It continues to do great harm and should be challenged as often as it is met with and shown to be what it is: totally unacceptable.

 

[Ecoclimber]

I posted a response on Medscape concerning the fact that there is no place in the medical profession for abusive doctors as it violates their professional code of ethics 'do no harm' by harming their patient's health with psychological abuse and emotional trauma. I stated these 'bad apples' should find another profession more suited for them and need to be remove from the medical profession.

Since the board is moderated, I doubt my comment saw the light of day.

 

[alex3619]

Since the board is moderated, I doubt my comment saw the light of day.

I would be very surprised if it got through. It would be nice if it did though.

 

[Jenny]

I would be very surprised if it got through. It would be nice if it did though.

My comment appeared as soon as I posted it. Here it is:

I am appalled at the amount of prejudice and ignorance expressed here. As professionals, physicians should keep up with current research on this serious neuro-immune disease, which can be devastating. If they are not prepared to keep up with the literature,they should remain silent.

 

[alex3619]

I think I am already signed up to Medscape. I will have to look into this later.

 

[CantThink]

This type of attitude (from these doctors) just confirms how useless going to see them is (in my opinion), unless they are an actual M.E. specialist. They have zero respect for us and zero knowledge. They are just full of stereotypes and prejudices. It seems to me, that the medical profession had a higher proportion (than the general population) of ego maniacs... They obviously don't subscribe to the notion of:
there but for the grace of God go I

 

[anciendaze]

At one time I had a neighbor who was a well-regarded psychiatrist. He did not see me as a potential patient, and didn't know about my private struggles with this illness. What he said about his patients shocked me, not because anyone said it, but because this person had all the political checkmarks needed to be called a bleeding-heart liberal. I also knew him as a good family man and a conscientious member of the community. When he testified in court he was careful to be as honest as possible. He was far from an egomaniac.

What he told me about psychiatric patients was "these are inferior people", neglecting to think that people who are ill are always at a serious disadvantage compared to healthy people. This also made me realize that he had essentially no faith in the idea of real cures of mental illness.

I don't think I could go on working with such an attitude, but many doctors do.

 

[CFS_for_19_years]

In Seattle we have a new police chief who is reprimanding cops that make denigrating racial remarks on social media such as Facebook. They are given warnings and I don't know what all else, but that sort of behavior is no longer tolerated here. Seattle citizens are not proud that we have one of the highest rates of police brutality in the nation and we are trying to reverse that notoriety.

For the same reasons as above, I think physicians should be kept accountable for the remarks they make on any online media that could be read by other doctors and/or patients. Denigrating remarks about patients are not appropriate under any circumstances! Some remarks are worse than others, and those need to be brought up to whomever is cutting a check to these insensitive doctors. If they work for an HMO, their bosses need to know how they conduct themselves.

 

[Gingergrrl]

I agree and when I worked for a hospital for 12 yrs if we went online and made negative comments about patients (which we didn't!) we could get fired. It was so crystal clear that we were not to do this that no one would have dared but these doctors are so cavalier like they are untouchable and that needs to change.

 

[Aurator]

This type of attitude (from these doctors) just confirms how useless going to see them is (in my opinion), unless they are an actual M.E. specialist.

And I'm afraid the term ME Specialist may need qualification. Here in the UK it can mean someone who is far from enlightened about the illness.

I was sent to a dedicated ME/CFS clinic at my local hospital only last year. There was thinly disguised derision of many of the symptoms I reported, and my question whether I might still be suffering from the virus that accompanied the start of my illness 18 months previously (after all I still had and still have many of the original symptoms) was greeted by a complacent smirk by way of an answer. The consultant in question has a website all about how to avoid fatigue with things like good sleep hygiene, healthy diet and minimisation of stress. There is scarcely even an acknowledgement there that people who have been diagnosed with ME/CFS actually have an illness properly speaking.

So when even "ME Specialists" can be benighted and unhelpful, what hope is there of finding enlightenment among non-specialists? I don't think it's an exaggeration to say that many doctors would prefer to have nothing at all to do with PWME, and ideally would like to see the particular species of vermin that we are just quietly die off and stop unworthily consuming resources that could be better spent on genuinely sick patients.

 

[Forbin]

Has Theodoric of York weighed in yet on Medscape?

[I can't embed the video because it's on Hulu, but the link is below]
http://www.hulu.com/watch/3529
​