The shot gun approach- mitochondrial/ methylation/ antoxidants

heapsreal

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I use 600mg twice a day of NAC,
lipoic acid 300mg twice a day
acetyl carnitine 500mg/day
q10 100mg/day
methy b12 5000mcg
methyl folate 800mcg
magnesium 200mg twice a day
vit e 500mg twice a day
ribose 5gr twice a day
creatine 5gr twice a day

I do use other stuff but the above is my dosage of the shot gun approach.

cheers!!!.
 

Allyson

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b12 injections really imporve the quality of my sleep strangely, but sublingula b 12 did nothing for me.
R ribose is a staple for me for stopping muschle aches and i have no ill effects form it
 

heapsreal

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I have just finished working my 5 shifts in a row and now on my first day off. Normally im lucky to get through 5 days work and one day would be a sickie and my first day off is vegetable day as thats what im like, a vegetable. Now waking up this morning was ok as i had a good solid 8 hours sleep, seem to be having more of these lately, although still medicated sleep. I give it a couple of hours to wake up and get going. So today i did a light weights session with most exercises to strengthen my lower back and a couple other exercises to cover the rest of my body. I also did some light cleaning etc like a boy would do, lol.

I had a similar week last week and no pem, we will see if this week brings any pem. I am making sure i rest well after exercising etc and i think my shot gun approach is definately helping me to improve and recover better and avoid PEM. Another thing im finding easy to overcome is the motivation factor, i use to feel i didnt have the motivation but it was just lack of energy. in the past i have pushed myself through exercise when this motivation was low and they just turned into a no energy workout. So now i see lack of motivation as a low energy day and if i exercised on those days i would definatetly end up with pem. SO im having less of these lack of motivation/energy days.

I think im taking enough pieces of the puzzle in my shot gun approach to get my energy going, no marathons yet lol. So im getting there, i still have NAD to try but i think i will leave it for abit longer.

cheers!!!
 

heapsreal

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Added the NAD this morning. Woke this morning abit groogy, maybe slept too well(thats rare) and shortly after the NAD it gave me a small boost and cleared my mind.
Im looking into the difference between NAD and NADH if anyone can help me understand the difference or if someone has found one better then the other. Most NADH products need to be taken on an empty stomach where the NAD is disolved under the tongue and more convenient way to take it. Maybe need to try NADH to compare.

cheers!!!
 

adreno

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Added the NAD this morning. Woke this morning abit groogy, maybe slept too well(thats rare) and shortly after the NAD it gave me a small boost and cleared my mind.
Im looking into the difference between NAD and NADH if anyone can help me understand the difference or if someone has found one better then the other. Most NADH products need to be taken on an empty stomach where the NAD is disolved under the tongue and more convenient way to take it. Maybe need to try NADH to compare.

cheers!!!
I'm not an expert on biochemistry, but it is my understanding that the ratio of NAD to NADH is important. If the ratio is low, it will lead to oxidative stress. Therefore I believe long term supplementation of NADH is a bad idea.

The balance between the oxidized and reduced forms of nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide is called the NAD+/NADH ratio. This ratio is an important component of what is called the redox state of a cell, a measurement that reflects both the metabolic activities and the health of cells.[15] The effects of the NAD+/NADH ratio are complex, controlling the activity of several key enzymes, including glyceraldehyde 3-phosphate dehydrogenase and pyruvate dehydrogenase. In healthy mammalian tissues, estimates of the ratio between free NAD+ and NADH in the cytoplasm typically lie around 700; the ratio is thus favourable for oxidative reactions.[16][17]The ratio of total NAD+/NADH is much lower, with estimates ranging from 0.05 to 4.[18] In contrast, the NADP+/NADPH ratio is normally about 0.005, so NADPH is the dominant form of this coenzyme.[19] These different ratios are key to the different metabolic roles of NADH and NADPH.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotinamide_adenine_dinucleotide
 

heapsreal

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I'm not an expert on biochemistry, but it is my understanding that the ratio of NAD to NADH is important. If the ratio is low, it will lead to oxidative stress. Therefore I believe long term supplementation of NADH is a bad idea.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicotinamide_adenine_dinucleotide
I think i might need to research it more as i have read it has antioxidant properties, but i suppose everything that potentially can increase energy can cause oxidation.

Even antioxidants like vit e etc after encounter free radicals turn into free radicals themselves but are weaker free radicals then the molecules vit e has just eliminated. this is where Lipoic acid comes into its own as it regernerates these other antioxidants that have turned into weaker free radicals.

Get confusing trying to understand all the biochemistry of it all.

SO from what u have read, is it NAD that can increase oxidative stress or is it the conversion of NAD to NADH that causes the oxidative stress??

cheers!!!
 

adreno

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SO from what u have read, is it NAD that can increase oxidative stress or is it the conversion of NAD to NADH that causes the oxidative stress??
It is when the NAD/NADH ratio is low, i.e. when there is too much NADH in relation to NAD. Why this happens, I don't know. It is my understanding that both forms can convert into each other. I'm sure Rich could tell you a lot more about this.
 

heapsreal

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It is when the NAD/NADH ratio is low, i.e. when there is too much NADH in relation to NAD. Why this happens, I don't know. It is my understanding that both forms can convert into each other. I'm sure Rich could tell you a lot more about this.
Cool, so NAD itself should be less of a problem as u would think that if nadh levels are adequate then the body would convert less NAD to NADH. Yes hopefully Rich chimes in to explain. U can look into alot of research but at the end of the day u have to try something and see what happens i guess.

cheers!!!
 

adreno

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PLoS One. 2011 Apr 26;6(4):e19194.

Age related changes in NAD+ metabolism oxidative stress and Sirt1 activity in wistar rats.

Braidy N, Guillemin GJ, Mansour H, Chan-Ling T, Poljak A, Grant R.

Source
Department of Pharmacology, School of Medical Sciences, Faculty of Medicine, University of New South Wales, Sydney, Australia.

Abstract
The cofactor nicotinamide adenine dinucleotide (NAD+) has emerged as a key regulator of metabolism, stress resistance and longevity. Apart from its role as an important redox carrier, NAD+ also serves as the sole substrate for NAD-dependent enzymes, including poly(ADP-ribose) polymerase (PARP), an important DNA nick sensor, and NAD-dependent histone deacetylases, Sirtuins which play an important role in a wide variety of processes, including senescence, apoptosis, differentiation, and aging. We examined the effect of aging on intracellular NAD+ metabolism in the whole heart, lung, liver and kidney of female wistar rats. Our results are the first to show a significant decline in intracellular NAD+ levels and NAD:NADH ratio in all organs by middle age (i.e.12 months) compared to young (i.e. 3 month old) rats. These changes in [NAD(H)] occurred in parallel with an increase in lipid peroxidation and protein carbonyls (o- and m- tyrosine) formation and decline in total antioxidant capacity in these organs. An age dependent increase in DNA damage (phosphorylated H2AX) was also observed in these same organs. Decreased Sirt1 activity and increased acetylated p53 were observed in organ tissues in parallel with the drop in NAD+ and moderate over-expression of Sirt1 protein. Reduced mitochondrial activity of complex I-IV was also observed in aging animals, impacting both redox status and ATP production. The strong positive correlation observed between DNA damage associated NAD+ depletion and Sirt1 activity suggests that adequate NAD+ concentrations may be an important longevity assurance factor.

PMID:21541336
So a decline in the NAD:NADH ratio is associated with aging.
 
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I am surprised no one mentioned Ginko Biloba, but from the trade marks you are mentioning I would guess Australian, Ginko was recommended in UK a few years ago also for Alzheimers, I have found Ginko to be helpful, not a cure and not dramatic , it seems to reduce the sudden stand up and nearly blanking out ,forget the name of that. Apparently Ginko thins the blood a bit allowing easier passage, also to be related to Vitamins B.
 

heapsreal

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Dosages seem similar to what i take except for q10 which seem to advise much higher doses, for me that 400mg twice a day, thats alot and now im only using 100mg a day. maybe i could try slowly increasing the dose.

thanks for that link, thats cool.

cheers!!!
 

adreno

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Dosages seem similar to what i take except for q10 which seem to advise much higher doses, for me that 400mg twice a day, thats alot and now im only using 100mg a day. maybe i could try slowly increasing the dose.
Well, if you were to take ubiquinol, 100mg would be an adequate dose.
 

heapsreal

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I think the alcar has definately helped me to be able to handle carbs better, when i eat a small carb meal previously it would set my appetitte off and i would easily put weight on from carbs. Of late i have been losing weight with no change in diet and can handle small carb meals without going on a binge or the urge to go on a binge. I did start the alcar with the q10 so probably the combo of both helping.

cheers!!!
 

Allyson

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i have tried siberian ginseng and it definitely keeps me awake
that was golden glow brand - alot of their vitamins keep me awake though i find
iI might try another brand as a few people have said it helps
my doc hac prescirbed dexamphtetamine for me as a stimulant
isn't that "speed"?
woud that not cause you to crash and burn?
Has any one else tried it please?
 

Allyson

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Just an FYI, I was searching for d-ribose products and found the NOW D-ribose 4oz at very low price for anyone thinking about getting some. Disclaimer: I dont know the product personally (I'm trying to find a brand to start using) just noticed a low price. Seller had good reviews (if you can trust those). This is just an FYI not a reco. Under $7 and I think that is with shipping, one time offer. I tried putting order for two and price goes up to $11 something.

http://www.nuvalife.com/store/cartShow.aspx?backUrl=http://www.nuvalife.com/store/productView.aspx?ec=1&idProduct=16504&prodId=227&utm_source=nextag&utm_medium=cpc&b=NexTag_NVL_227_NexTag_NVL_16504_00_*GeoUSCA*
Roxie thanks for that site - the d ribose is nearly 10 dollars chaper than iherb and i use it a lot
however has anyone used that company before?
I saw something on the site about repeat charges to your credit card unless you tell then to stop
I emailed them to clarify and will let you know how I get on