The Resistant Starch Challenge: Is It The Key We've Been Looking For?

[South]

@Gondwanaland I think psyllium is (edited) only part insoluble fiber, and that uncooked potato starch isn't quite insoluble fiber either... in case this helps you sift through the fiber options.

 

[rosie26]

@Vegas

I got the flaxseed you recommended, optimistically took 1 ts, and it absolutely destroyed me. The immune activation was intense. It's been three days now, and I'm still not back to baseline. Potent stuff, I must say.

I also got a breakout of shingles rash. Do you know the mechanism behind this? When I read about, it is usually stated that this reactivation occurs in immunosuppression, but I feel like my immune system is anything but suppressed!

Flaxseed oil didn't agree with me either. I took 1 tablespoon and it gave me a racing heart.

 

[Gondwanaland]

@Gondwanaland I think psyllium is soluble fiber, rather than insoluble fiber, and that uncooked potato starch isn't quite insoluble fiber either... in case this helps you sift through the fiber options.

Soluble fiber acts very different in me personally than insoluble fiber does, so I looked up a lot of foods to see what kinds of foods had which of these two fibers, or both, or niether.

Thanks for you input, South. I really don't know about psyllium, but I am 95% sure that PS is insoluble.

 

[alicec]

Thanks for you input, South. I really don't know about psyllium, but I am 95% sure that PS is insoluble.

Psyllium is roughly 50:50 soluble to insoluble while PS is virtually completely soluble. Actually the soluble/insoluble distinction is an artificial one made by dieticians who seem to miss the point. There are far more types but what is really relevant is whether or not they are fermentable by gut bacteria. In this respect PS is almost totally undigestible by us by almost entirely fermentable by bacteria.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Psyllium is roughly 50:50 soluble to insoluble while PS is virtually completely soluble. Actually the soluble/insoluble distinction is an artificial one made by dieticians who seem to miss the point. There are far more types but what is really relevant is whether or not they are fermentable by gut bacteria. In this respect PS is almost totally undigestible by us by almost entirely fermentable by bacteria.

My concern is in regards of mineral absorption/availability in the gut. Some fibers impair more than others, and I was thinking that insoluble would be more problematic in this respect.

Is there a difference between raw and cooked PS re soluble/insoluble fiber content?

 

[alicec]

Is there a difference between raw and cooked PS re soluble/insoluble fiber content?

It remains soluble but heating makes it much more digestible by us - ie the resistant starch content is reduced.

 

[alicec]

This thread has been going on for months, and with RESULTS. And I think this is what is happening. Subtly we are not the same sick people as before!!!

I've been struggling with a few issues over the past month (more on that later) and it is only now that I have emerged from bouts of worsening brain fog that I realise I have been missing something really important.

I certainly recognise that there have been modest though notable improvements in a number of my symptoms including, particularly, sense of well-being, but I have been chafing with frustration that I still can't do so many of the things that I would like to.

So what constitutes a good day for me hasn't changed a lot but I have been overlooking the fact that most days are now "good" days, bad days are many fewer and it is months since I have had a really bad day. That is a very significant achievement!

As to the brainfog, blurred vision so bad I could hardly see at times and a few other things, eventually I realised that this was being caused by lymphatic congestion in the head. I've been mounting a fairly powerful immune response to who knows what for many weeks now, notable in other parts of the body but most powerfully in the head, neck and upper trunk.

I stopped my experiments with prebiotics and postponed trial of miyarisan while I looked for something to relieve the worst of the congestion. Gentle massage with a hand-held electric massager several times a day and acupuncture did help a lot and maybe with time backing off the prebiotics (though this wasn't immediately obvious).

The immune reaction is still on-going but I am handling it a lot better now and feel I have a better baseline from which to evaluate more pre and probiotics. Not to mention being incredibly pleased that I have made so much progress.

With best wishes
Alice

 

[ahmo]

I'm posting here as well as having posted on the miyarisan thread to warn any who are unaware that Miyarisan contains corn starch. Corn starch is gluten cross-reactive, not for me.

 

[kangaSue]

Only if the citrate you take as a supplement can cross the cellular membrane in sufficient quantities, and then also cross the mitochondrial membranes to take part in the Krebs cycle. But searching just now I can find no mention that supplemental citrate slows down the Krebs cycle. So I take it that it is just your own assumption / theory that citrate supplements will impede the Krebs cycle.

In this study, very high doses of sodium citrate (around 40 grams) were given to athletes just prior to a 5 km endurance run. This was found to improve performance. That does not sound like a Krebs cycle slow down.

From https://citricacidallergy.wordpress.com/staying-alive/ "The Citric Acid Cycle occurs inside the mitochondria, which is inside the cell. Reactions to foods and chemicals take place in extracellular spaces; the reaction mediators are outside our cells and never “see” the citrate that is formed in our mitochondria, therefore they cannot react to it."

 

[Gondwanaland]

Interesting:

Microbiota Accessible Carbohydrates (MACs) – The New Kid on the Block

 

[ariel]

Hello all,

I've been meaning to tell you all about some new prebiotics that I've been taking. One is Wheat Dextrin, or trade name Benefiber. The other is Partially Hydrolyzed Guar Gum (PHGG).

The Wheat Dextrin in particular has set off huge detox reactions and has had a profound effect. It seems to target an entirely different set of gut-bugs to other ones I've taken, and more importantly it targets the ones in a different part of the digestive tract, mostly the distal end. With the Benefiber I felt like a different part of my brain was turning on. I also had extreme levels of irritation and inflammation, and weirdly very old memories started spontaneously coming up. The memory part might have been happening all along, but I've been too overhwelmed with discomfort in the past to notice.
I don't really know what wheat dextrin is, so don't know if it contains gluten, for those sensitive to it.
I highly recommend trying some though. I got it locally at a discount chemist, so hopefully it is easy to find.

The PHGG is one from iherb
http://www.iherb.com/Healthy-Origins-Healthy-Fiber-Clear-Mixing-7-9-oz-225-g/62076#p=1&oos=1&disc=0&lc=en-US&w=guar gum&rc=668&sr=null&ic=4
I've only ever taken little bits of this daily, but I love it! It subtly makes me (or the gut bugs) happy. There was almost no reaction to this when I introduced it.


I highly recommend both of these!
I really feel that these are bringing in a whole new level in the prebiotics world.



Edited to add:
I just checked the Benefiber bottle, it says Gluten Free, for anyone sensitive.

 

[adreno]

Hi @ariel,

It's probably important to know what other fibers you are taking?

 

[ariel]

Yes of course. good question.

The ones I mostly rotate between are:
Mung bean starch
Potato starch
Green banana flour
Acacia
Larch (-- seems totally unique in its actions, and will probably keep taking this one off and on indefinitely)
Now's Apple Fiber
Now's Inulin
small amounts of Psyllium
Spirulina (not sure if this is strictly a fermentable).

Ones I have, but never remember to take:
Mesquite (tastes yummy, like caramel, but gut bugs don't seem too interested)
Yacon syrup (probably mostly because it is a syrup and I've put it in a different part of the kitchen. Also yummy - tastes like treacle and makes me feel subtly happy)
Glucomannan (never got over the texture it turns into, but should try again)

So I have quite a collection! But then again I've been pretty much obsessed with all this for nearly a year now I just realised!
Most, if not all of them caused horrible reactions when I first started them. And I (possibly unwisely ) really pushed it.

Would love to know what everybody else is taking and if they have noticed anything in particular with them.
I never got around to getting some baobab, and still wonder whether it does anything special.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Most, if not all of them caused horrible reactions when I first started them. And I (possibly unwisely ) really pushed it.

I can't see myself pushing thru LAG

 

[jstefl]

I had a difficult time with LAG when I first started. By using very small amounts at first, I have been able to build myself up to the point where I can pretty much take as much as I want to. I usually take two teaspoons a day now. I could easily take more, but it doesn't seem necessary.

I am glad that I stuck with it.

John

 

[Gondwanaland]

I had a difficult time with LAG when I first started. By using very small amounts at first, I have been able to build myself up to the point where I can pretty much take as much as I want to. I usually take two teaspoons a day now. I could easily take more, but it doesn't seem necessary.

I am glad that I stuck with it.

John

What improvements did you notice from taking it?

 

[jstefl]

I wish I could give you a simple answer. I started Resistant starch about 16 months ago. I started with the potato starch and then added several others. I am continually adding and changing the supplements that I take, so it is really difficult to attribute any improvements to any one specific action.

The best way for me to compare is to look back at the way I felt before I started the RS, and compare that to the way I feel now. I actually hit my low point back in 2008, and have been slowly improving ever since. Back then, I was very nearly bed bound, my blood pressure was down to 80/50, and I had severe headaches on a continuous basis. My fist big step was Valcyte which I took back in 2008. Since then I have tried methylation, LDN, and pretty much every supplement that I have heard about. I have stopped some due to ineffectiveness or cost, but have stuck with most of them.

I have made significant improvements to my health with these steps. Today, I watch a grandchild three days a week, have begun to spend considerable time with my hobbies, keep up with the chores around the house, and have much less headache pain. I still need to rest for a while after lunch, but don't necessarily sleep. This alone is a big change for me. I am clearly not at 100%, but at least I feel that I am heading in the right direction.

Just about every thing that has resulted in an improvement has been difficult to start, but has been worth it in the long run. I have had to start with minute quantities of LDN for example. Over time I slowly increased the dose until I am able to tolerate several milligrams a day. I did the same with LAG. The first dose was pretty nasty for me. I reduced the dose to a very tiny amount and slowly built it up over many weeks. The improvement has been small. but if you add up all the small improvements, the results are clearly worthwhile.

John

 

[Gondwanaland]

I did the same with LAG.

My trial dose was the "smidgen" one from this measuring set.
Clearly I should have gone with the "drop" dose. I will try it again sometime, as well as the K2-MK4 and the Miyarisan. I must first adjust my diet, and this takes me some time. Thanks for your testimonial!

 

[jstefl]

I was able to take large quantities of the PS when I first tried the LAG. I don't remember the exact dose I started with, but I still remember the headache it gave me.

I have nearly finished my second 250 mg container of the LAG, so it definitely gets better as you go.

By the way, I love the measuring set!

John

 

[ariel]

Same for me. Started with low doses and then slowly increased. Am still on my first container of it, though nearly finished. Will try a different brand to see if there is any difference.
I was one of the ones who found 1/4 of a teaspoon of PS super inflammatory.

I guess I didn't 'push through', I just employed every means I could think of to deal with all the extra body burden, like charcoal tablets, coffee enemas, magnesium baths, etc. Much of which I still do, as it isn't over yet!
I also think that the home-made lypo C that I do really helps the adrenals. I think I really, really, couldn't have done anything with out that. Would have had a major crash and burn otherwise.

Another big one is mouth ulcers which pop up whenever I've done too much. I still get those. Have one right now in fact, so will stop for a few days and take it easy.
This is a long project. And in the end I'm not entirely sure still if it will really get to the core of the problem, though it really feels like a huge piece, so I am determined to keep going.