The most controversial/ridiculed/discredited/dangerous treatments out there.

[Fuluf]

Hello everybody struggling out there. I feel you.

It may seem absurd, but through my 9 years of my ill health research I came to the conclusion that SOME of the very valuable treatments out there were purposefully or wrongly discredited throughout the history.

I just want to have a mindful and objective look at the treatment’s core principles and deeply research the basics of its mechanism of action - not paying attention at SOMETIMES baseless and watery arguments against. There is a chance that this given treatment might broaden my understanding on how to get well.

I have Lyme and multiple coinfections by ArminLabs tests and so antibacterial/viral/fungal/parasitic agents would be of my (and probably of your) interest, however everything would be appreciated.

Please list everything you know including that you might find dangerous/toxic/non-effective and generally sketchy.

My list will be:

1. Chlorine Dioxide
2. True colloidal silver (silver nanoparticles)
3. Rife machine
4. Urine therapy
5. High Dose Iodine (Lugol or SSKI): 30-100x of what’s approved officially
6. HHO Browns Gas
7. Drinking only distilled water
8. Raw glandular therapy
9. DMSO
10. Turpentine

 

[datadragon]

https://www.cassingram.com/oreganol-clove-cinnamon-lyme-disease/

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4681354/

 

[Wishful]

Well, Brown's Gas is pretty blatant pseudoscience. I'm not sure what drinking only distilled water is supposed to do; it would probably take months (or years or decades?) of nothing but distilled water (ie. no food or supplements either) to deplete your reserves of many (most?) minerals. Chlorine dioxide is definitely toxic, although that doesn't mean that there's no possibility of benefit for some disease. However, the same applies to probably every toxin, and I see no reason to believe that ClO2 is any more likely to have any benefit than mercury, cobra venom or anything else listed as toxic.

Given that ME responds differently for each individual, with maybe a 50% chance of any given treatment making an individual worse rather than better, I wouldn't put much confidence in any treatment listed anywhere for ME or infections.

From your list, I'd place random plant (or animal or insect) parts as higher probability of success than any of the treatments you listed.

FWIW, low doses of iodine (small drop of tincture) did help me, but higher doses didn't add any additional benefit.

 

[Murph]

I consider getting neck surgery controversial. It's one with a guaranteed high cost ($), risk (anaesthetic), and downside (recovery time from the incisions, etc) . Obviously it helps some but how can you be sure in advance?

a discredited one is rituximab. A lot of people improved on it but I believe whitney dafoe got worse on it..

 

[Rufous McKinney]

discredited one is rituximab

I got a lymphoma diagnosis and so far, if I ever need treatment, that one is IT.

 

[Fuluf]

I should add the following here:

1. Lithium Orotate
2. Whole Body Hyperthermia treatment (up to 43C)
3. Photodynamic Therapy
4. Bicarbonate; Hydrogen peroxide
5. CO2 costumes
6. Vitamin B17 (IV Laetrile)
7. Intermittent Hypoxic Training

 

[maple]

I would add graded exercise therapy GET to this list, along with medical gaslighting as harmful therapies

 

[Wishful]

CO2 costumes

I'm picturing someone wearing one inflated ball with two other slightly larger inflated balls attached.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

I consider getting neck surgery controversial.

there is also getting the curvature put back in your neck so its working better...the clinic in Florida does that one.

so you've got weights on your head and neck you wear for weeks as you try to get the proper curve to return.

Then after that, get neck ligament injections....

 

[Fuluf]

I will also bump with:

Emeramide/NBMI/OSR/Irminix

 

[Artemisia]

1. Lithium Orotate

is this a known problematic supplement for people with ME?

 

[Rufous McKinney]

From your list, I'd place random plant (or animal or insect) parts as higher probability of success than any of the treatments you listed.

I possess two bottles of "homeopathic" Blue Scorpion venom. Cancer Cure. Cuban.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

2. Whole Body Hyperthermia treatment (up to 43C)

somebody famous just did super heat treatments in Mexico to knock down infections and Lyme disease.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Here is a remarkably biased, distorted article on UNPROVEN medical devices and cancer treatments.

Four references total, and they dismiss acupuncture because one lousy study found confusing outcomes for lower back pain. How would you even determine what is a uniform group of individuals with the "same form of lower back pain".???

Here is the ridiculous FIRST SENTENCE:

"The scientific method is an affront to the advocates of the irrational, magical or pseudo-scientific belief systems that characterise “alternative” or “complementary” therapies such as homeopathy, craniosacral therapy and ear candling, to name but a few of the less credible varieties."

What a crappy paper that got published and what a lame perspective.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3097732/

I won't mention my friend's who has a disabled daughter who receives cranial sacral treatments and these help her tremendously. They help HER. That matters to HER. She gets relief from jaw pain and headaches that nothing else fixes.

How would we find at least 30 other human beings with the exact same physical problems as my friend's daughter, (she has rare genetic birth defects) enabling a simple student T-test to be run on the results. And who will pay for that study? No one.

Yes, studies on alternative medicine, or on herbs etc, are rarely if ever done properly because nobody is going to pay for that, plus there is NO Incentive to do so. do Cranial Sacral therapists have lobbyists to Lobby NIH to get funding to do studies? No, but Pfizer does.

Literally because Chinese medicine is about a MIX of herbs, as opposed to isolating an active ingredient. As long as that is the case, studies will never happen. They only want to isolate ingredients, defeating the synergistic and interactive effects these mixes have.

 

[mattie]

The most controversial/ridiculed/discredited/dangerous treatments out there.​

I have Lyme and multiple coinfections by ArminLabs tests

Arminlabs testing is very controversial. And the lab has been discredited many times.

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/documentary-undercover-in-german-lyme-clinics.55493/

Spoiler: Chat GPT summary

While ArminLabs has gained popularity among patients seeking answers for chronic illness, especially Lyme disease and co-infections, their testing methods have faced significant criticism from the broader scientific and medical communities.

The main concern is that many of their tests, particularly the ELISPOT/LTT (Lymphocyte Transformation Test), lack independent validation and are not recognized by major health authorities like the CDC, IDSA, or ECDC. Several studies and expert reviews have pointed out that these tests have poor specificity and a high rate of false positives, meaning they often indicate an infection where none exists. This can lead to misdiagnosis, unnecessary anxiety, and potentially harmful or inappropriate treatments.

Furthermore, the immune responses measured by these tests can be non-specific or reflect past exposure, not an active infection. As a result, many experts warn that the clinical value of these results is questionable at best.

In short, while it’s understandable that patients seek every possible avenue when mainstream tests come back negative, it’s important to be cautious. Tests that are not grounded in solid scientific validation can do more harm than good, both medically and financially.

 

[Wishful]

Yes, studies on alternative medicine, or on herbs etc, are rarely if ever done properly because nobody is going to pay for that, plus there is NO Incentive to do so.

Isn't there a very strong incentive--for the people wanting to sell it--to prove that an alternative treatment is valid? A lot of those treatments claim major biological effects, such as shrinking tumors, which could be easily tested, yet no one has done that to earn potentially billions for a proven treatment. If something is easy to test and valuable if proven, yet no one has done it, I take that as strong evidence that the claims are false.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

yet no one has done that to earn potentially billions for a proven treatment

Googling says:

"The typical cost of a double-blind controlled study to approve a drug in the US can vary significantly, but a median estimate for a pivotal trial (Phase 3) is around $19 million. However, the total cost of developing a new drug, including all phases of research and development, can be much higher, ranging from $708 million to over $2 billion."

It seems like we also have alot of approved drugs which in fact are not particularly safe. They may still be worth taking, but the trade offs should be more clear.

 

[pamojja]

herbs etc,, are rarely if ever done properly because nobody is going to pay for that, plus there is NO Incentive to do so.

shrinking tumors, which could be easily tested, yet no one has done that to earn potentially billions for a proven treatment.

the total cost of developing a new drug.., can be much higher, ranging from $708 million to over $2 billion.

Only patentable synthetics are able to ever recover the costs of getting a new medication approved. Herbs or nutrients therefore are rarely tested beyond preliminary research, and then to find a synthetic patentable analog to it, only.

That's why @Fuluf could come to the conclusion..

I came to the conclusion that SOME of the very valuable treatments out there were purposefully or wrongly discredited throughout the history.

The purpose to discredit was and is, because no money can be made of things like chlorine dioxide, lugols or dsmo, for example. Anyone else can sell cheaply, with marginal profits. Impossible, recovering the high costs of getting it as a new medication approved.

 

[CedarHome]

Here is a remarkably biased, distorted article on UNPROVEN medical devices and cancer treatments.

Four references total, and they dismiss acupuncture because one lousy study found confusing outcomes for lower back pain. How would you even determine what is a uniform group of individuals with the "same form of lower back pain".???

Here is the ridiculous FIRST SENTENCE:

"The scientific method is an affront to the advocates of the irrational, magical or pseudo-scientific belief systems that characterise “alternative” or “complementary” therapies such as homeopathy, craniosacral therapy and ear candling, to name but a few of the less credible varieties."

What a crappy paper that got published and what a lame perspective.

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3097732/

I won't mention my friend's who has a disabled daughter who receives cranial sacral treatments and these help her tremendously. They help HER. That matters to HER. She gets relief from jaw pain and headaches that nothing else fixes.

How would we find at least 30 other human beings with the exact same physical problems as my friend's daughter, (she has rare genetic birth defects) enabling a simple student T-test to be run on the results. And who will pay for that study? No one.

Yes, studies on alternative medicine, or on herbs etc, are rarely if ever done properly because nobody is going to pay for that, plus there is NO Incentive to do so. do Cranial Sacral therapists have lobbyists to Lobby NIH to get funding to do studies? No, but Pfizer does.

Literally because Chinese medicine is about a MIX of herbs, as opposed to isolating an active ingredient. As long as that is the case, studies will never happen. They only want to isolate ingredients, defeating the synergistic and interactive effects these mixes have.

Yep. Love how the medical community thinks things "don't work" or are snake oil because there's not some huge corporate pharma backed study to prove that they do. You're absolutely right, no incentives to ever sort this stuff out properly, profit margins are just not there.

Cranio sacral WITH THE RIGHT THERAPIST has really helped me. Acupuncture and some homeopathy, same.

How does any of this work? Well science hasn't caught up yet but maybe it's by subtle manipulations of The Interstitium...
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/search/research-news/6489/
https://radiolab.org/podcast/interstitium

 

[Rufous McKinney]

then to find a synthetic patentable analog to it, only.

Yes, so they want to find something that might be active or result in some postive effects, and then change it into something they can patent and own.

I saw the Patent Application for b-caryophyllene. This terpene, is in many plant species. But there is interest in its cancer curing properties so a University in Israel has applied to patent EVERY POSSIBLE delivery system, anyone can think of, even if they have not thought of it yet. I found all that shocking.

And this is a wild plant substance. What are they doing? I appreciate that the Israelis DO study alternative medicines far more seriously than anyone else.

The latest BIG DEAL? AI wants to access copywriten material. But they don't own that.

The purpose to discredit was and is, because no money can be made of things like chlorine dioxide

I had to read that sentence a few times, but finally it sunk in.

And it seems like DMSO is proving to have a whole array of possible positives, that could be considered surprising.