The Abundant Energy Summit

[jimells]

What's the catch? You give out your e-mailadress, under the promise that you'll receive free info goodies (which you do get), but afterwards you get spammed like there's no tomorrow. And they will always try to sell you stuff, obviously. During the summit the speakers will give you SOME info but not THE info,

Gaaaw. What a racket. Reminds me of how they sell vacation condos with a free night in a motel as the hook.

 

[SOC]

Really? That means you have to not reflexively dismiss people who believe the opposite of you, I think.

Ah, well then, maybe I don't.

 

[mermaid]

I have signed up to other summits in the past as @Effi mentioned. I guess I am surprised at the hostility towards this one, although I agree it's a bit of a mish mash of approaches, but hey, it's free, and you can pick and choose what you listen to as I have done.

I must admit that a wave of fatigue came over me for days 1 and 2 and so I didn't get going until tonight onto day 3. I have just listened to Dr Myhill (most of it I already knew as I have been her patient) - it was clearly presented and seems to have been well received.

I have also just heard Dr Alex Vasquez on the Gut-Mitochondrial Link and the wider political context and thought it was excellent.

Yes, of course ultimately it's about selling, but that's what the capitalist world is about isn't it including in the world of health? In America all of health care is paid for isn't it?

 

[SOC]

In America all of health care is paid for isn't it?

Yes, but it's not about BS snake-oil type sales techniques. When you talk like a charlatan, people are reasonably going to suspect you are a charlatan. If you want to be taken seriously as a medical professional, don't sell your services like a late-night TV commercial.

BTW, UK health care is paid for, too. Doctors and nurses don't work for free there, either. It's just a question of who pays and who controls what treatment you get.

 

[mermaid]

I don't believe though that all of the people on this summit are charlatans. After all people here are commenting without actually listening (on the whole) and are perhaps damning the system which isn't as bad as it might seem.

Yes, it's a bit shiny and glossy but some of the content is worth listening to (in my opinion). And maybe these summits are more user friendly for people who don't have much science background.

And yes, of course UK health care is paid for (by our taxes and national insurance). I meant that people paid in the US through private insurance (which not everyone can afford) - sorry just realised that my last sentence was clumsy up there and I missed that out. In fact I should really be in bed asleep and not writing on here.....oops!

 

[whodathunkit]

Ah, well then, maybe I don't.

Honesty is good.

 

[minkeygirl]

Someone in HR has posted some of Dr Myhill's comments.

http://www.cortjohnson.org/forums/threads/appalled-by-abundant-energy-summit-targeting-m-e.2939/

 

[whodathunkit]

I don't believe though that all of the people on this summit are charlatans. After all people here are commenting without actually listening (on the whole) and are perhaps damning the system which isn't as bad as it might seem.

Yep. I agree.

Within the caveat that I haven't listened to the Energy Summit either, I will say that whatever anyone thinks about how wacky Ken Wilber might be , I would bet his motivations are good. When last I was following anything about him he was already chronically ill and looking for solutions. He always struck me as a pretty good person, and genuinely interested in helping people and pushing boundaries, unlike some others of the New Age-y alternative ilk that I've read or heard about that have made money plying their wares/trade. Profit is NOT a dirty word, and just because someone makes money doing stuff like this doesn't automatically mean they're a cynical hypocrite.

He's a little out there about some things, but again, many of his ideas (particularly his philosophy, Integral Therapy) are worth reading as food for thought if nothing else. If you don't dismiss them out of hand, they can add a little something to your worldview...even if you don't turn into a tongue-bathing fanboy and buy into him whole hog (I did not, generally speaking he's quite a bit too hippy-dippy for my taste).

Also, given that Cort and Myhill are involved, it's quite possible not as bad as some have commented here. I think those two have a good reputation as ME advocates around here...right?

 

[Effi]

I don't believe though that all of the people on this summit are charlatans. After all people here are commenting without actually listening (on the whole) and are perhaps damning the system which isn't as bad as it might seem.

Yes, it's a bit shiny and glossy but some of the content is worth listening to (in my opinion). And maybe these summits are more user friendly for people who don't have much science background.

I agree. I think these summits can be very useful, especially when you don't have basic knowledge yet about the themes they're talking about. They don't give you all the in-depth info, but they do tell you more than what you could generally learn by reading their website. Sometimes it's easier to understand something when someone explains it vs. you reading big chunks of text. It's a low threshold-way to learn about health related subjects. I think it's especially great for housebound patients. And if you're not really bad at not buying whatever they're offering, it's pretty low risk too.

 

[bertiedog]

I have also just heard Dr Alex Vasquez on the Gut-Mitochondrial Link and the wider political context and thought it was excellent.

I also listened to this presentation and was very impressed with his knowledge and the info that was given. I will probably get one of his books as I am interested in the topic of the gut. It was also interesting to hear the Red Labs presentation and wondered what @Jonathan Edwards would have thought of it as I believe Professor Edwards isn't generally impressed with private labs.

Pam

 

[Effi]

Someone in HR has posted some of Dr Myhill's comments.http://www.cortjohnson.org/forums/threads/appalled-by-abundant-energy-summit-targeting-m-e.2939/

This is what I was afraid of when I looked at the descriptions on the Abundant Energy Summit website:

However what stands out to me in this talk is the lack of understanding of M.E. shown. The attempts to lump Neurological M.E. into the fatigued category whilst also mixing up (Uk) CFS too which is a disease left undiagnosed due to lack of thorough physical testing does those with M.E. a grave disservice.

Whether you’re in the midst of a chronic health crisis or committed to improving your daily health and energy, this summit will be exceptionally useful to you and your goals.

IMO there is a HUGE difference between wanting to improve your daily health and energy vs. being chronically ill, and in so much pain and excruciating discomfort that you are unable to function and take care of yourself. The fact that this summit seems to be targeted towards both groups seems strange. And from what I read on their website, on what the speakers will be offering, most of it sounds a lot like BPS. I haven't attended the summit, so I'm not in the best place to judge, but the recap I read on HR about Myhill's presentation makes me cringe. I have used some of Myhills dietary recommendations, and I was happy with them, but when is this patient blaming going to stop?

People with M.E. are perfectionists who burn the candle at both ends - the personality that gets you into M.E. doesn't help you get out of it.

This is not helpful and just not true either. If all we had to do in order to cure ourselves was go into therapy to change some of our 'harmful' character traits, we would be out in the world being healthy having fun in no time.

I did see a couple (maybe two?) rather interesting speakers. But most of them sounded like they would just reiterate the whole psycho myth. (If anyone actually listened to all the presentations, I'd be happy to read about what their thoughts are on the presented subjects. I'd love to be wrong on this one.)

 

[A.B.]

I do notice some perfectionist traits in myself, but these first appeared a few years before the illness. Blaming the illness of perfectionism is the fallacy of confounding correlation with causation. I have wondered whether "perfectionism", that is being preoccupied with doing things well, isn't the result of the person finding it increasingly difficult to do things as well as they were able to before.

 

[Effi]

I have wondered whether "perfectionism", that is being preoccupied with doing things well, isn't the result of the person finding it increasingly difficult to do things as well as they were able to before.

That is exactly what I think it is. There's a subset of patients who had the disease creep up on them very slowly. Sometimes it takes years before patients realize what is happening, especially when they have a milder form of ME. As your average doctor won't see the subtle signs (although in hindsight they were usually always present) and explain to you that your health is declining, I can imagine patients being left with a feeling of 'never being good enough' at whatever they do. This has nothing to do with perfectionism, just with being unknowingly sick. Classic case of reverse logic.

 

[mermaid]

Reading the posts on Dr Myhill on Cort's site was certainly interesting.

Not sure what I feel exactly, having done her protocol for some years and not recovered from ME, though I do think there are useful bits in there that have helped some symptoms, (gut in particular is on the road to repair). If she is right about the mitochondria, then mine feel they are failing badly and at 63 I feel like 83, and nothing I have tried has fixed them over 5 years.

That said, I do know from being on an ME Facebook group that many people with ME have been at least partly helped by her approach, if maybe are not completely better.

Also I have just come back from my herbalist feeling bruised as she is full of evangelical zeal about eating entirely grass fed organic meat, and organic veg. Although I do the best I can re all this arena, (and in fact actually eat mostly organic/non processed food) was made to feel that it wasn't good enough unless I did it 100% - the implication that if I didn't then that is perhaps why I didn't recover from ME. Aaaargh! I just don't believe this rubbish. If only it were that simple. Patient blaming indeed.

 

[mango]

i agree with a lot of what has been written in this thread. so much rubbish and unhelpful confusion going on at this summit,... but there are some gems in there too!

i just now finished listening to myhill's talk. i totally agree that some of the things she said was absolutely appalling and hugely unhelpful super disappointing.

i used to be geuinely interested in what myhill had to say. some years ago i gave a serious go at following her "treatment package" advice re: nutrition, detoxing etc -- sadly it didn't help (and no, i didn't "do it in a piecemeal way" or give up very quickly!). after this talk though, she's definitely lost a lot of my respect, and i've realised that what she's talking about isn't the illness i have

...i definitely didn't give myself ME by being a vegetarian and/or drinking excessive amounts of coffee and stuffing my face with chocolate cookies instead of sleeping at night, or by being a highly-strung perfectionist..!

however, i really enjoyed the talks by wilber and jason

i've read several of wilber's books over the years, listened to a lot of his talks, and i personally find them hugely interesting and a lot of it very true to my own experience. perhaps it doesn't come across at a quick glance or listen, but it most definitely isn't "wacky" or "charlatan-ish" at all, if you have a proper read beyond the surface. his integral approach can be applied to anything, not just health/illness etc, and i believe it really has a lot to offer. i have no doubt at all that he understands ME (i do however agree that it might not have come across very clearly in this particular talk). after all, he was one of the people hit by it in the incline village, north lake tahoe outbreak...

Didn't he die...?:

it's true that ken wilber flatlined and was very nearly dead at one point in 2006 due to ME, but he didn't stay dead
http://www.kenwilber.com/blog/show/214
http://www.kenwilber.com/Writings/PDF/hi_folks.pdf

as for jasons's talk, i really enjoyed it! initially when i read that he would be talking about kindling among other things, i was definitely apprehensive (simply because i associate that concept with ugly psychobabble), but my doubts were totally unfounded in this particular instance.

i found jason's talk very clear, (com)passionate, genuine, moving and informative. i think he did a fantastic job

 

[mermaid]

however, i really enjoyed the talks by wilber and jason

Sadly I missed these as I didn't get going until Day 3 but maybe they will do a 'favourites' at the end and I can catch them then.

 

[Effi]

@mango thanks for the recap, and good to hear there were some interesting bits in there!

I was just wondering, Myhill wouldn't be the first doctor to start out totally promising and helpful but then gradually roll over to the BPS camp. What do you guys think is the appeal? Is it just easier to feel succesful over there, instead of constantly looking for answers and basically just finding more questions? (=definition of complicated illness I guess) It's not like they magically cure anyone over there either... I don't get it!

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

I also listened to this presentation and was very impressed with his knowledge and the info that was given. I will probably get one of his books as I am interested in the topic of the gut. It was also interesting to hear the Red Labs presentation and wondered what @Jonathan Edwards would have thought of it as I believe Professor Edwards isn't generally impressed with private labs.

Pam

I have not accessed the material but looking at the webpage I am afraid any lab that sponsors this sort of thing is likely to sink further in my estimation. I find it difficult to see how a lab can maintain credibility as a reliable diagnostic service and at the same time sponsor stuff like this.

 

[redaxe]

I do notice some perfectionist traits in myself, but these first appeared a few years before the illness. Blaming the illness of perfectionism is the fallacy of confounding correlation with causation. I have wondered whether "perfectionism", that is being preoccupied with doing things well, isn't the result of the person finding it increasingly difficult to do things as well as they were able to before.

Isn't it fair to say that everybody has some degree of perfectionism? As long as it doesn't lead towards self-destructive behaviors or poor relationships with family or colleagues I don't see why it is frowned upon so much. I wouldn't see those sort of traits as negative. In a way it can be a positive trait because it means you'll go above and beyond to make sure something is correct and done properly.

There's a lot of job careers that being a perfectionist is almost a mandatory trait. These industries leave absolutely no room for error and the learning curve for entry level is intense but that is the new global standard. The whole world now is about dotting i's and crossing t's so basically no matter where you work you need some level of a perfectionist attitude. I dunno is that a fair statement? Interested to hear what others might say?
1)air-traffic controllers
2)pilots
3)laboratory technicians
4)validation/quality control
5)lawyers
6)accountants
7)programmers
8)biotechnology

 

[bertiedog]

I have not accessed the material but looking at the webpage I am afraid any lab that sponsors this sort of thing is likely to sink further in my estimation. I find it difficult to see how a lab can maintain credibility as a reliable diagnostic service and at the same time sponsor stuff like this.

I guess they would say that they are trying to inform patients of what types of testing is available if one is suffering with an unexplained illness but I have to say I did wonder who validated all the tests they offered. I can see that this could be a real problem.

Pam