Tension, pressure in chest and shallow breathing after Oxygen Treatment

[ChrisD]

This time last week I took a bit of a leap and had Intravenous Oxygen privately on the basis that I had responded well to Hyperbaric. The result was very different though, despite it being a very low dose.

At first it is a nice feeling as if taking a breath of fresh air at the top of a mountain, but later that day it switched more to chest tightness, a heavy feeling, shallow breathing and mild hyperventilation despite being totally calm. This was improving until a couple of times where I have tried to do my usual short walk and then these symptoms return in correlation with my PEM/Payback and are quite uncomfortable and scary.

Yesterday a GP checked my blood pressure, oxygen saturation, and heart via stethoscope and said it was all normal. My heart rate monitor is normal too but something has definitely shifted since the invasive treatment.

The symptoms are worst when I am reclined, lying down and trying to get to sleep at night even on my side and my whole body becomes tense and my breathing is not okay. I don’t feel it is really psychological at all because I feel calm in my mind and have wound down with meditation and warm tea.

I have a few theories;
1. The added oxygen has upset the respiratory balance and confused the brain into a different pattern of breathing.
2. The purpose of the treatment is to create an anti-inflammatory effect but perhaps with misfiring immune system this is effecting And irritating lung tissue.
3. It has effected the infections that I have including Lyme, Coxsackie etc and caused die-off or a proliferation of bacteria such as Babesia.
4. The oxygen itself has caused damage or irritation to tissues.
5. It does also feel like an autonomic issue similar to how I have hand hypnic jerking before when I try to go to bed.

It does also fit this description but without the pain: Sitting up and leaning forward tends to ease the pain, while lying down and breathing deep worsens it. Some people describe the pain as a dull acheor pressure in their chest. ... Chronic pericarditis often causes tiredness, coughing and shortness of breath. In this type of pericarditis, chest pain is usually absent.

It’s just really frustrating when you try something that in theory should make you better but makes you worse anencephaly exacerbates symptoms. If it persists my next step would be to get a chest X-ray or I am wondering about further respiratory diagnostics a GP doctor could easily run.

Any other ideas?

 

[ljimbo423]

3. It has effected the infections that I have including Lyme, Coxsackie etc and caused die-off or a proliferation of bacteria such as Babesia.

Don't forget gut dysbiosis. Gut dysbiosis in ME/CFS is extremely common, found in many studies.

From my own personal experience I can say for sure that die-off from gut bacteria can be anywhere from mild to bone crushing and actually make inflammation worse, at least temporarily. Maybe something to consider??

 

[Hip]

Intravenous Oxygen

What is intravenous oxygen? Never heard of that one.

 

[ChrisD]

What is intravenous oxygen? Never heard of that one.

It’s an OxyVen machine (registered), rather than Ozone it titrates a low dose of oxygen into the bloodstream and is supposed to help inflammation/oxidative stress. I believe it’s sometimes used for detoxing heroin addicts and people who have been in fires.

 

[ChrisD]

Don't forget gut dysbiosis. Gut dysbiosis in ME/CFS is extremely common, found in many studies.

From my own personal experience I can say for sure that die-off from gut bacteria can be anywhere from mild to bone crushing and actually make inflammation worse, at least temporarily. Maybe something to consider??

Oh yes I’m well aware of the gut dysbiosis involvement, but are you implying that the action of IV oxygen could have an interaction with the gut bacteria? Could oxygen pass through the gut lining to do such a thing?

I’m not ruling it out because interestingly I’ve had a bit of constipation after and also a few short sharp pains in the gut.

 

[Hip]

It’s an OxyVen machine (registered), rather than Ozone it titrates a low dose of oxygen into the bloodstream

Looks like the OxyVen is this machine, but the website does not explain how it works.

Do you know how they add oxygen to the blood? If oxygen is added as a gas to the blood, it can cause a gas embolism.

The symptoms of gas embolism are listed here.


This study says that intravenous oxygen can be delivered both as a gas, and also with the oxygen first dissolved in water (under pressure). The study says oxygen as a gas has a risk of creating an embolism. There is less risk of embolism with oxygen dissolved in water, but it can also happen.

 

[ljimbo423]

Oh yes I’m well aware of the gut dysbiosis involvement, but are you implying that the action of IV oxygen could have an interaction with the gut bacteria? Could oxygen pass through the gut lining to do such a thing?

I don't know if the oxygen passes through the gut wall. I do know people here have taken IV antibiotics and it has really messed up their gut microbiome. So it seems antibiotics do. To be honest, I don't even understand how antibiotics get to bacteria in the gut from the bloodstream but it seems like they do.

 

[Countrygirl]

@ChrisD I don't know if this is anything relevant, but I apparently relapse badly when I have been given oxygen when taken to hospital via ambulance. I tried to work out why some of the time when I have been transported by paramedics I have become very ill indeed and other times, not so much. The only consistent factor was that I had been given oxygen on the occasions that I became very unwell and relapsed badly. It seemed a ridiculous idea but I then read that Dr Cheney maintains that ME patients always suffer from oxygen toxicity. I am not aware if this has been accepted or disproved but oxygen certainly seems to make me relapse.

http://forums.prohealth.com/forums/...toxicity-may-determine-outcome-in-cfs.195806/

 

[ChrisD]

@ChrisD I don't know if this is anything relevant, but I apparently relapse badly when I have been given oxygen when taken to hospital via ambulance. I tried to work out why some of the time when I have been transported by paramedics I have become very ill indeed and other times, not so much. The only consistent factor was that I had been given oxygen on the occasions that I became very unwell and relapsed badly. It seemed a ridiculous idea but I then read that Dr Cheney maintains that ME patients always suffer from oxygen toxicity. I am not aware if this has been accepted or disproved but oxygen certainly seems to make me relapse.

http://forums.prohealth.com/forums/...toxicity-may-determine-outcome-in-cfs.195806/

That seems incredibly relevant and I wish I had known that before I rushed into it. My question now is why I responded well to Hyperbaric though, maybe it was more gentle and natural as it was being breathed, maybe also a lower percentage than you received.

Also what supplements can we take to restore a natural redox balance?
I’ve been taking thiamine and bicarbonate of soda that are supposed to help

 

[Hip]

@ChrisD, did you see my question earlier about whether oxygen as a gas was injected into your bloodstream?

If gas was injected, it can sometimes cause an embolism. Ozone gas is sometimes injected into the bloodstream by some therapists, and this website says ozone can cause:

pulmonary embolism and death when given intravenously

If it is a small embolism, it generally will disperse on its own after a while.

 

[Murph]

Have a look at this:

https://slatestarcodex.com/2017/04/05/the-case-of-the-suffocating-woman/

It describes a situation where surprise changes in blood oxygen levels (such as you might get when coming off o2 supplementation) can contribute to the body's suffocation response. Your body is continuously monitoring oxygen and co2 levels, and if oxygen falls while co2 rises (for no reason the body can see) it can cause feelings of suffocation.

Feelings of suffocation sound exactly like what you've described in the title of this post. These feelings of suffocation can be described in another way as anxiety or panic.

Nobody ever wants to be told they're experiencing panic symptoms. I acknowledge that above you said you were feeling calm at some points.

I am someone who contemptuously rejected an anxiety diagnosis for breathing problems before later realising it was accurate, so I am particularly open to this concept. You can feel free to accept it or reject it.

 

[ChrisD]

@Murph Thanks Murph, it’s okay I’m an open minded individual and open to that idea - it makes sense because the HPA axis is involved in breathing and it does feel like the change has set off a panic state - I’ve actually ordered a couple of homeopathic remedies to try for that reason.

The thing is, what actually is Anxiety anyway? We so often relate it with being a failing of own our mental health and feel shame but to be honest we are seeing so much evidence now that it’s a physical condition that is mostly out of our control.

 

[ljimbo423]

The thing is, what actually is Anxiety anyway? We so often relate it with being a failing of own our mental health and feel shame but to be honest we are seeing so much evidence now that it’s a physical condition that is mostly out of our control.

I agree that a lot of anxiety is caused by inflammation and is physical. However, I do think at least some of the inflammation and therefore anxiety is in my control. The research is growing every year showing the connection of inflammation to both anxiety and depression.

I have been able to lower my anxiety significantly. I feel like a lot of the reason for that is by lowering inflammation both in my body and in my brain. I use to get full blown panic attacks regularly for decades. I haven't had one now in about 2 years!

For me, much of my inflammation is almost certainly coming from toxins in my gut. Causing inflammation both in my body and in my brain. I realize this is completely anecdotal but the panic attacks I was getting for decades stopped shortly after I took 2 courses of Rifaximin at 1,200 mg a day for 10 days each course.

Since Rifaximin only works in the small intestine and isn't absorbed into the body. The reason it stopped my panic attacks would have to be from what it did in my small intestine.

 

[andyguitar]

What @Countrygirl says is something I have heard a few times over the years @ChrisD Quite what is happening is a bit hard to work out but I've heard it enough times now never to suggest IV Oxygen to anyone. HBO is a different matter. Seems to be benificial.

 

[ChrisD]

These symptoms from my OP got better but now they seem to recur with every PEM episode - concerned that I have done some damage or made a shift to redox/respiratory balance.

 

[valentinelynx]

Two thoughts.

One, I wonder if a bad reaction to oxygen given the usual way, by nasal cannula, or mask, could actually be a bad reaction to the plastic in the tubing or mask? The smell of oxygen tubing is somewhat annoying to me now, but probably would have been worse in the days when my chemical sensitivity was much higher, and I could imagine people with severe chemical sensitivity or MCAS might have a bad reaction to those plastics.

Two, intravenous oxygen delivery is a very interesting concept. It is apparently an alternative to hyperbaric oxygen therapy thought to potentially be safer in that it avoids the considerable risks associated with hyperbaric oxygen treatment. The basic idea is that a fluid, such as normal saline or Lactated Ringer's, which can be administered intravenously, is exposed to oxygen at hyperbaric pressures. The amount of oxygen that dissolves in the exposed liquid is far greater than that which would dissolve at normal atmospheric pressures. That liquid is then given intravenously to the patient, to some extent duplicating the effect of a hyperbaric oxygen chamber in the sense that it introduces a similar amount of dissolved oxygen into the blood.

From the paper I looked at, though, it appeared that this technology wasn't yet being tested in the West, although it was in Asia. The paper was published in 2017, so I'm amazed it would be available in a clinic in the UK already. I did find a website for an integrative medicine clinic in Spain that seemed to be claiming to provide this treatment, although they are definitely a very "alternative" clinic. What clinic in the UK is offering this therapy & how do they describe it?

 

[ChrisD]

From the paper I looked at, though, it appeared that this technology wasn't yet being tested in the West, although it was in Asia. The paper was published in 2017, so I'm amazed it would be available in a clinic in the UK already. I did find a website for an integrative medicine clinic in Spain that seemed to be claiming to provide this treatment, although they are definitely a very "alternative" clinic. What clinic in the UK is offering this therapy & how do they describe it?

I have reacted positively to Hyperbaric but negatively to intravenously oxygen. And I had it done at an integrative practice in England; I would imagine more places are offering it than we would expect but they just keep it quiet.