supplements in pregnancy

[harrycat]

Hi,

I've been following Rich's protocol with some variations for over 6 months now. I'm now trying to get pregnant and I wonder what supplements I can keep on taking...

I was looking at thorne basic prenatal which contains some folate / folinic (1000mcg - I currently take a similar amount) and some adb12 / mb12 (which I doubt will be absorbed very well orally). I was a bit concerned about 45 mg of iron as being a bit high, but I don't know if I need to be.

I am now injecting 1mg mb12 per day and I like the way I feel on that - is there any reason I should stop this? I also take some hb12 drops and sometimes some adb12 (source naturals dibencozide sublingual).

I currently take yasko's multi (x2) but it contains milk thistle and I know this is contraindicated in pregnancy.

Things like TMG, carnitine l-fumarate, magnesium, zinc, fish oils, I take and I don't know if these are ok.

Same goes for digestive enzymes and amino acids (as my aminos were low) - I can't think that these could have any negative effects on a fetus, but I don't want to do anything harmful.

If anyone has any advice or resources, I'd be eternally grateful... I don't have access to an ob/gyn so please don't suggest asking them!

 

[Freddd]

Hi,

I've been following Rich's protocol with some variations for over 6 months now. I'm now trying to get pregnant and I wonder what supplements I can keep on taking...

I was looking at thorne basic prenatal which contains some folate / folinic (1000mcg - I currently take a similar amount) and some adb12 / mb12 (which I doubt will be absorbed very well orally). I was a bit concerned about 45 mg of iron as being a bit high, but I don't know if I need to be.

I am now injecting 1mg mb12 per day and I like the way I feel on that - is there any reason I should stop this? I also take some hb12 drops and sometimes some adb12 (source naturals dibencozide sublingual).

I currently take yasko's multi (x2) but it contains milk thistle and I know this is contraindicated in pregnancy.

Things like TMG, carnitine l-fumarate, magnesium, zinc, fish oils, I take and I don't know if these are ok.

Same goes for digestive enzymes and amino acids (as my aminos were low) - I can't think that these could have any negative effects on a fetus, but I don't want to do anything harmful.

If anyone has any advice or resources, I'd be eternally grateful... I don't have access to an ob/gyn so please don't suggest asking them!

Hi Harrycat,

I'll tell you what I know. There is a lot I don't know anything specific on. Iron can interfer with absorbtion of some things, at the very least specifcally vit E which may we why so many children are born deficient of E (jaundiced looking) and also b12 taken orally. It is suggested that iron be taken 8-12 hours apart from vit E. I do not know if iron interfers with absorbtion folates. Lack of mb12, methylfolate and Vit E in the week 3-4 of pregnancy can result in neural tube defects. I say these specifically because those are the specific items. Hycbl MIGHT convert to enough mb12 and folic/folinic acids MIGHT convert to enough methylfolate or might not.The REAL vitamins are what is used by the body. When folic acid was added to white flour in the USA they were looking forward to almost the complete ellimination of neural tube defects. The 29% reduction is a net amount reduced because in those people in whom folic acid causes paradoxical folate deficiency there would be an increase of neural tube defects where they might not have happened without the folic acid.

There is no reason to assum that omega3 oils would hurt at all since they are a normal food item and fish always had the reputation as "brain food". And the same with normal amounts of magnesium and zinc. Varius carnitines are normal components of meats and TMG is in molassis. Again, normal amounts are likely no problem, deficiencies are a problem. In autism some of the lastet research links to gestational issues which could include deficiencies and in the fathers contribution. One of the things suggested to me by some parents in an autism group is that going to the autism parents group is like going to an FMS/CFS support group as a LOT of the parents have those. Also, Autism is one of the disorders that has lower CSF levels of mb12/adb12 just as CSF/FMS/Parkinson's/MS/ Alzheimer's/ALS.

There are a number of brands of pre-natal vitamins with Metafolin now. However, as most include iron and Vit E in the same pill they won't stop vit E deficiency. Purina discovered that vitamin e raised reproduction success tremendously in the lab and pet "chow" business back in 1948. When my wife was pregnant we went to her doctor with all the problems with the pre-natals ansd said that we would rather mix our own from separates. He looked at the list, which at that time include ""salmon" oil rather than omega3, and various cold pressed health store specialty oils that include what are now known as omega3 oils instead of soybean and corn oil and he said fine, and eat lots of fish but not swordfish and others with mercury. My wife also took into account most everything Adelle Davis had in her book Let's Have Healthy Children and took yeast supplements and ate lots of liver and clams (mb12/adb12 best sources from food), not available in vitamins then but were were aware of the differences from research. The folic acid was what bothers us most since we both tended to have low folate unhelped by folic acid. We were probably the most careful food people during her pregnancies that you have ever met. We also had 3 health children who all have our folate problems and who all need mb12 and adb12.

As far as conceiving goes, deficiencies of mb12, methylfolate, vitamin E are all essential and their deficiencies cause multiple known causes of reproductive failures in both male and female. It would appear that all the mb12/adb12 and methylfolate for that matter, everything in fact, for the fertilized egg to reproduce cells comes from the semen until the egg sucessfully attaches to the wall and develops the placenta. The semen has enough TC2 (transcobalamin 2 which transports and protects b12) to have 1/5 of the entire bloods supply of b12 in each 5cc if the male has the b12 in his body.
So best of luck.

 

[harrycat]

Thanks so much for this Freddd it really gives me a good starting point. With what u say about keeping iron and vit e separate I will certainly avoid the prenatals.

I wanted to ask a few things please... You mentioned yeast supplements for your wife- what were these please? I thought I would need to stop antifungal herbals? I do have yeast overgrowth.

When you say 'normal' amounts of supplements like magnesium and tmg I take it you mean a lot more than the rdas?

One last question - do you have any opinion on vit a ? I have read conflicting stuff saying only take betacarotene and others saying the same about retinol (Weston price promote fermented cod liver). Again recommended amounts vary wildly.

The book you mention sounds really interesting - I'll try and get a copy though it appears out of print.

Thank you again for your help.

 

[Freddd]

Thanks so much for this Freddd it really gives me a good starting point. With what u say about keeping iron and vit e separate I will certainly avoid the prenatals.

I wanted to ask a few things please... You mentioned yeast supplements for your wife- what were these please? I thought I would need to stop antifungal herbals? I do have yeast overgrowth.

When you say 'normal' amounts of supplements like magnesium and tmg I take it you mean a lot more than the rdas?

One last question - do you have any opinion on vit a ? I have read conflicting stuff saying only take betacarotene and others saying the same about retinol (Weston price promote fermented cod liver). Again recommended amounts vary wildly.

The book you mention sounds really interesting - I'll try and get a copy though it appears out of print.

Thank you again for your help.

Hi Harrycat,

The big thing that Adelle Davis really brought out there were a number of things not well known circa 1960. At that time Vitamin E was "not established as necessary in human nutrition". At that time there was a lot of research on neural tube defects existing but it was like nobody knew it. She was BIG on liver (mb12,adb12), folate containing things, omega3 oil containing items, pantethenic acid and a number of other things. My wife took the yeast beacause of all the uncertainty about b-vitamins and it was a good source. Unfortunately it is NOT advisable to take yeast if one can't tolerate folinic acid. However, in 1960 there was no Metafolin so nobody could do A-B tests to see the difference. My preference is for 8 factor high gamma E becasue I think that is the most likely form to help a lot in the long haul. Right now 7 of the factors are in the "need not established in human nutrition" category. I prefer fish-oil A to betacarotene. There is lots of conflicting evidence, all of it done in the absence of mb12 and metafolin. Fermented COD liver oil is a little strong for my tastes but ought to be ok in capsules.

When I say "normal" quantities of things are not likely to cause problems it gets a lot more complex than that. Too little calcium causes one problem, too much, or maybe out of balance with magnesium and potasium, causes other problems. 500mg of TMG could be had in a tablespoon of molassis. 5 grams of TMG might "force" things downb different paths. Same with l-carnitine. Some is very helpful, like 500mg, but what does 5 grams do? What balances does it change. B-vitamins are water soluable. SOme people's problms are that they get rid of it too fast. So a modest b-comples works better twice a day than huge doses once a day for most people. With b12 we are attempting to overcome problems in distribution so have to make enough available for diffusion. That it has a dose proportionate effectiveness is easily demonstrable. Also, the specific low CNS/CSF cobalamin levels regardless of body levels found in CFS/FMS can only be fully relieved by larger CNS/CSF penetrating by diffusion size doses. If a person doesn't have paradoxical folate deficiency and can get folate from their diet they might find that 800mcg is quite adequate whereas it exists in single dose of up to 15mg because so people need that much for effectiveness. As Metafolin is the only form of folate that penetrates the CNS/CSF and it's transport can be blocked by folic/folinic acids in some people, this can be determined by titration.


Edible yeast, whether contained in beer or extracted from brewing beer or primary grown food yeast is quite dead and doesn't cause yeast infections or have much of anything to generally do with that unless one has allergies to some of the proteins etc in the various yeasts. However, if is dangerous to people who have paradoxical folate deficiency. It isn't needed. We were trying to account for know and unknown factors. A 6 item b-comples is very differernt from a 12 item b-complex. And many more active forms are now availalble, such as pantethine, p5p, Metafolin, mb12, adb12 (no active b12s are in yeast).

 

[harrycat]

Hi Freddd,

Sorry got the wrong end of the stick regarding yeast! Thanks for explaining.

Regarding B vitamins, what do you think of this b vitamin supplement biocare b plex

It does say not for use in pregnancy, but I was thinking if I split the dosage twice daily it would be ok? Or do you think these amounts are too large?

Thank you again.

 

[harrycat]

Sorry Freddd, bumping in case you missed my question last post ... really appreciate all your input on this board

 

[Freddd]

Hi Freddd,

Sorry got the wrong end of the stick regarding yeast! Thanks for explaining.

Regarding B vitamins, what do you think of this b vitamin supplement biocare b plex

It does say not for use in pregnancy, but I was thinking if I split the dosage twice daily it would be ok? Or do you think these amounts are too large?

Thank you again.

Hi Harrycat,

I would have thought "hairycat" but that is me. I'll tell you what I don't like about that supplement. It is basically one of the "B50" type supplements with 50mg of each thing providing a very out of balance b-complex. Also, every item used is an inactive form that has to be converted, so no pantethene, no p-5-p, etc. What I did was find a minimal but balanced b-complex and add the various active items as needed. Good luck

 

[harrycat]

Freddd,

Lol, hairycat is a good name, but actually Harry was my cat you see...

Hmm yes I wasn't too impressed with the b plex formulation myself but it's so tricky to avoid folic acid ...

Ok have just scoured iherb and the only b complexes I can see that don't contain folic acid are the Thorne versions (there are several) but they also contain folinic acid.

Jarrow B right also fits the bill (and i think I recall you mentioning this one a while back) but it says it contains 'folic acid (folate)' which sounds a little suspicious.

Have I missed some options? Thanks for your patience with me

 

[Freddd]

Freddd,

Lol, hairycat is a good name, but actually Harry was my cat you see...

Hmm yes I wasn't too impressed with the b plex formulation myself but it's so tricky to avoid folic acid ...

Ok have just scoured iherb and the only b complexes I can see that don't contain folic acid are the Thorne versions (there are several) but they also contain folinic acid.

Jarrow B right also fits the bill (and i think I recall you mentioning this one a while back) but it says it contains 'folic acid (folate)' which sounds a little suspicious.

Have I missed some options? Thanks for your patience with me

Hi harrycat,

NatureMade "B-complex with vitmin C" is a simple very modest 5 factor b-complex that I augment with p5p, pantethene, biotin, more b1, Metafolin, mb12,adb12 and a few other b factors. I woyld still be using the B-Right if not for the folic acid. So basically I mix my own these days. It got too tough to find a good b-complex.

I figured it was your cat's name. I rarely turn down a straight line so it had to be Hairycat. My wifes brother is Harry and he was Hairy in the 60s before he became baldy instead of hairy.

 

[Valentijn]

AOR Advanced B Complex has the good forms (methylB12, 5-Methyltetrahydrofolate, pantethine, P5P) and in intelligent amounts. Their website isn't very good about listing the forms, but the labels on the bottles have them, as well as many of the websites that sell it.

 

[harrycat]

Thanks Freddd and Valentijn.

Freddd - I can't find the supplement you mention on iherb - is it available there?

I found this on AOR's website re the active B1 in the Advanced B complex:

Pregnancy / Nursing
Due to lack of studies involving benfotiamine, best to avoid.

I googled benfotiamine and pregnancy and found a few other people saying avoid it. Can it really be a risk? I wish I knew what to do!

 

[Freddd]

Thanks Freddd and Valentijn.

Freddd - I can't find the supplement you mention on iherb - is it available there?

I found this on AOR's website re the active B1 in the Advanced B complex:

Pregnancy / Nursing
Due to lack of studies involving benfotiamine, best to avoid.

I googled benfotiamine and pregnancy and found a few other people saying avoid it. Can it really be a risk? I wish I knew what to do!

Hi Harrycat,

Notice what it says "lack of studies". There are no studies that state that benfotiamine works as well as thiamin without damage to the fetus. That is a different thing from having studies that show a problem. This is their CYA statement. There is no known problem but there is also no known safety. Fetuses are very delicate and so they want to be very very careful. I honestly can't give advice on that becasue I don't know anything they don't on this. The supplement I am using I pick up at a local pharmacy. It is cheap. Then I add all the good stuff. Good luck.

 

[greenshots]

I liked this one, it has half the folic acid and half the iron
http://www.holisticheal.com/completia-prenatal-multivitamin.html

 

[Freddd]

Would anybody here who has confirmed some form of folate deficiency by a Metafolin trial of any length, please go to this thread, http://forums.phoenixrising.me/showt...724#post232724 and post the requested information. Thankyou