Sunlight as being anti-viral

[LINE]

This doctor (M.D.) is very active on Youtube with educational videos. Also has a Twitter account.

 

[Hip]

Interesting video, I enjoyed watching it, as I am always fascinated with the health benefits of sunshine and hot climates.

The video explains at timecode 8:50 that near infrared light (from the sun or artificial sources) is able to stimulate the mitochondria in cells to produce melatonin locally (which in turn acts as an antioxidant for the mitochondria).

So the idea in this video is that sunlight's health benefits don't just come from the vitamin D generated by ultraviolet light, but also from the antioxidant melatonin generated in cells by near infrared light. The sun emits a lot of near infrared light (which of course is not visible, but we can feel it as heat).

Professor Roger Seheult then explains that with our increasingly indoor life, we are being exposed to less and less near infrared. And the switch to energy-saving light bulbs has further reduced our near infrared exposure, since old incandencent bulbs emitted a lot of near infrared as well as visible light (which is why they were not energy efficient), but modern LED bulbs do not emit in the near infrared spectrum.



However, I am not sure whether Prof Seheult's idea that near infrared is that missing health factor for viral infections pans out, because near infrared light only penetrates around 0.5 to 1 cm into the body tissues, see the graph below (near infrared wavelengths are about 700 nm and above).

Source: here


So this beneficial melatonin locally produced in cells in response to near infrared from sunlight will only appear in tissues that are not far from the skin surface.

But organs such as intestines (where many viruses like to live) are too deep inside the body to receive the benefit of near infrared.


Near infrared can penetrate the skull though, and you can use near infrared lights on your forehead to receive a mild cognitive boost (I've tried this, and it works, though the effects are mild).

 

[Wishful]

I'm sure there will be lots of marketing claiming that near infrared (from the specific company's product, of course) will eliminate all viruses in the body, and they just won't mention the limited penetration part.

Is there any statistical evidence that shows that viral infections inversely correlate to near infrared exposure? That should be fairly easy to test from existing data, so if there is no such correlation reported, it's not a significant effect.

 

[BrightCandle]

All that happened to me through the summer as I exposed myself to daily sunlight was I found I burnt a lot quicker than I did before. My skin isn't quite as pale which just increased the constrast of my panda eyes and that was it. I didn't recover or improve in any way from daily sunshine exposure nor gain the ability to sit in the sun for longer. This presentation suggests perhaps I should be doing it early morning and late afternoon avoiding 10-14 so I'll do that but based on my experience of sunning I wouldn't rush out and spend £300 big ones on a near infrared light.

 

[Hip]

This paper goes into depth regarding the antioxidant melatonin produced in cells in response to near infrared from sunlight: Melatonin and the Optics of the Human Body

The paper says that near infrared is scattered several inches into the body, and reaches 60% of cells:

NIR photons are scattered several inches into the body even through the skull due to the low optical absorption and the anisotropic nature of the scatter in the human body in this wavelength range. This leads to 100% of the cells of the fetus and young children being exposed to larger amounts of NIR photons as compared to approximately 60% of the cells in adults as illustrated in Figure 4.

It would be cheap and easy for people living indoors to expose themselves to near infrared: for around $50 you can buy an infrared illuminator spotlight, which you could shine against a white ceiling in order to reflect near infrared all around the room. These infrared illuminators are used for security applications, when security cameras operate in infrared at night.

I think an infrared illuminator with a wavelength of 830 nm would be better, as this is close to the peak optical sensitivity of mitochondria (see graph below). Many illuminators operate at 850 nm, which I don't think would be as good (because it is further away from the 820 nm peak sensitivity shown in the graph).

Mitochondria Peak Sensitivities to Light

Note: 620 nm = orange-red, 680 nm = deep red, 760 nm = invisible infrared, 820 nm = invisible infrared.


Or you can buy bulbs like this 36W PAR38 bulb for $24 which are specifically designed for near infrared health therapy. Again you could shine that against a white ceiling, so that the whole room is bathed in near infrared the whole day long, simulating being outdoors in the sunshine.

This article indicates 830 nm is good, (in terms of activating mitochondrial cytochrome c oxidase):

Researchers tested red light at 670nm, 728nm, 770nm, 830nm, and 880nm. The most effective wavelengths were shown to be 670nm and 830nm, while the least effective was shown to be 728nm.

I should say though that I have previously tried pointing an 830 nm infrared illuminator at my bare back for several hours each day, and did not notice much.

 

[hapl808]

Seheult's content is pretty good, and he's generally careful about making definitive conclusions. I think the interesting thing here is similar to difficulties with supplements, herbal extracts, etc. You can make a case from NIR in relation to sunlight, but possibly that's a correlation and not a cause. Maybe there's another aspect of sunlight we are unable to measure.

I find the sunlight stuff interesting and I think getting 15 mins of morning sun sounds great with minimal downsides for those who can do it. Possible benefits for healing, melatonin and cortisol, and so forth, which could all affect other stuff as well.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

, because near infrared light only penetrates around 0.5 to 1 cm into the body tissues,

wouldn't the melatonin produced, circulate to other tissues?

 

[Consul]

However, I am not sure whether Prof Seheult's idea that near infrared is that missing health factor for viral infections pans out, because near infrared light only penetrates around 0.5 to 1 cm into the body tissues, see the graph below (near infrared wavelengths are about 700 nm and above).

from sunlight will only appear in tissues that are not far from the skin surface.

But organs such as intestines (where many viruses like to live) are too deep inside the body to receive the benefit of near infrared.


Near infrared can penetrate the skull though, and you can use near infrared lights on your forehead to receive a mild cognitive boost (I've tried this, and it works, though the effects are mild).

He talks about a study in this video though at 06:30 where some of the NIR is able to penetrate 8cm into the tissue.


edit: fixed link and time

 

[Hip]

wouldn't the melatonin produced, circulate to other tissues?

Apparently not: when cellular melatonin is locally produced in cells for antioxidant purposes, it remains in the cells. Circulation levels only increase when the pineal gland releases melatonin for sleep purposes.

But interestingly, according to the paper I posted above, the reverse does occur: circulating melatonin can be drawn into cells.

When there is a deficiency in cellular melatonin because of a lack of near infrared light, then cells may draw melatonin out of the circulation, for antioxidant purposes. This might then reduce sleep quality, because the pineal-secreted melatonin which is normally used to induce sleep is now drawn into cells for antioxidant purpose.

This might be particularly significant for ME/CFS patients, as we have high oxidative stress anyway, so maybe a lot of our pineal gland melatonin secreted for sleep gets drawn into cells and used up for antioxidant purposes.

Perhaps this might in part explain why ME/CFS patients often sleep badly.

Ever since I developed ME/CFS, I found I need to take 5 mg of melatonin a couple of hours before bed, otherwise it takes me ages to get to sleep.

The paper says:

Figure 8 is from a study of athletes who were exposed for 20 minutes every evening for 14 days to 670nm over their entire body (16).

670nm (deep red) was used based on availability of treatment equipment. Unlike other studies the whole body was exposed and eyes were covered during treatment. Compared to the control, peak circulatory/serum melatonin levels were elevated as shown at the end of the test. In this study not only were the circulatory/serum melatonin levels increased but the test subject’s sleep quality and athletic performance levels also improved significantly.

This data is consistent with the hypothesis of this review in that the treatments stimulated high antioxidant levels in a large percentage of the athlete’s cells right before sleep (similar to sitting around a campfire) thereby reducing the amount of circulatory melatonin that was needed to be extracted from the blood during the night.

It would be interesting to experiment with whole body near infrared exposure, and see if that improves sleep quality, via the melatonin it creates in cells.

 

[Alvin2]

Sunlight exhausts me.

Ever since I developed ME/CFS, I found I need to take 5 mg of melatonin a couple of hours before bed, otherwise it takes me ages to get to sleep.

If we have a BH4 deficiency then we would produce less pineal melatonin.
I take 1mg for sleep, more doesn't have additional effect for me.

Also i called a local Costco seeing what BH4 costs, 450CAD for 10 tablets but they are unable to order it

 

[Wishful]

which you could shine against a white ceiling in order to reflect near infrared

Check the spectral reflectivity of white paint first.

 

[Hip]

Check the spectral reflectivity of white paint first.

Good point. I've noticed that white surfaces invariably come out as white on infrared nighttime security cameras (I have such a camera), and these cameras tend to use 850 nm light. So this indicates that white pigments tend to reflect near infrared.

 

[Consul]

@Hip are you concidering trying one of those lamps? Would be interresting to see if there is a positive effect.

 

[Murph]

relevant to this is @paolo 's recent effort to simulate summer.

https://paolomaccallini.com/2022/09/20/summer-simulation-a-correlation-study/

he noticed he felt better in summer, so he tried to make winter into summer in his bedroom. he made it hot, dry and bright. he felt better. he does some complicated maths and concludes the only possible cause is the infrared radiation.

Even though the idea of infrared radiation initially sounded a bit woo-woo to me, I'm willing to start to believe there's something to it.

 

[hapl808]

he noticed he felt better in summer, so he tried to make winter into summer in his bedroom. he made it hot, dry and bright. he felt better. he does some complicated maths and concludes the only possible cause is the infrared radiation.

Even though the idea of infrared radiation initially sounded a bit woo-woo to me, I'm willing to start to believe there's something to it.

Wow, that's a lot of math.

On a less technical level, I'd love to try an infrared heater or NIR lamp or something in my bedroom, but not sure what to get.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

try an infrared heater or NIR lamp

my friend had a metal rack of IR lights, in her bathroom, she'd sit on a stool etc. I'd like to try that.

 

[Hip]

@Hip are you concidering trying one of those lamps? Would be interresting to see if there is a positive effect.

Yes I might buy a powerful near infrared bulb, and see if creating a near infrared ambient background in my room does anything. I have a 12 volt 6 watt 830 nm LED illuminator that I bought years ago to direct on my head, which looks like this:

68 LED, 12 Volt 6, Watt, 830 nm Near Infrared Illuminator

But I am not sure if it is strong enough to create a room-wide ambient background.


I've found that shining this 6 watt illuminator on my forehead area for about 10 minutes daily increases conscious awareness slightly. This near infrared has the ability to penetrate the skull to a degree. It's well know that too much of this light can make you more vague mentally, and this is what I find if I use longer dose times of 20 minutes or more. My post here provides more details.

But the effect is not that strong, it's not the magic cure to brain fog, so it's not something I do regularly.

This paper examines the optimum light dose for near infrared therapy. They say the optimum light energy density is 4 to 10  J/cm2.


One forum member used such near infrared light therapy on the nape of his neck, and made permanent and substantial improvements that allowed him to return to work.

Unfortunately when I tried near infrared on my nape, it did not do much for me. And when I tried red light on my nape, it caused some disturbing mental health effects (initially creating more conscious awareness, but days later this turned into an irritable and cynical state of mind, more anhedonia and depression).

This therapeutic use of red and near infrared light is called photobiomodulation, or low-level laser therapy (you don't need to use lasers, however, LEDs are just as good).



I might by this 830 nm 36 watt near infrared bulb, to create a background near infrared ambience. Whole body exposure to near infrared might have a different effect to just directing the light to the head, especially if the light helps create antioxidant melatonin in all the mitochondria.

 

[Murph]

I appreciate the focus on melatonin in this thread. Everyone knows about vitamin D, it's easy to measure, and it often correlates with health, but supplementing it doesn't do anything, studies have found. The logical conclusion is vitamin D correlates with sun exposure and sun exposure affects something *else*.
i've actually read that sunshine can reduce immune activation.

I'm perhaps instinctively contrarian and that may explain it, but this article appeals to me enormously. It argues sunshine is really good for us and letting dermatologists boss us around and keep us indoors to avoid skin cancer is dumb.
https://www.outsideonline.com/health/wellness/sunscreen-sun-exposure-skin-cancer-science/

This applies within certain limits. white people in Australia and the US can very easily get more UV than their skins can handle.

 

[Murph]

Wow, that's a lot of math.

On a less technical level, I'd love to try an infrared heater or NIR lamp or something in my bedroom, but not sure what to get.

I think Paolo love maths so much he builds it in even where it's not strictly required!

 

[Hip]

I'd love to try an infrared heater or NIR lamp or something in my bedroom, but not sure what to get.

Any cheap quartz halogen infrared heater, which you can buy for $30, will emit near infrared. They use similar quartz halogen tubes as you find in a 500 watt halogen spotlight, except that they are run at a lower temperature, so shine orange/red rather than white.

I actually have a far infrared heater, based on ceramic bulbs, which looks similar to this:

Far infrared is more penetrating than near infrared; far infrared warmth feels really nice, as the heat seems to penetrate into your bones. The heat feels "soft", as it does not just heat your skin, but penetrates into the body.

Whereas the heat from a near infrared quartz halogen heater is less penetrating, so tends to heat the skin more, and thus feels a little more harsh and hot on the skin.

Though in terms of the therapeutic effects of creating melatonin, I think you need near infrared. Far infrared I don't believe has these melatonin benefits (although far infrared may have other health benefits).