Studying would be nice

[GracieJ]

Is it true that people with ME/CFS have trouble with their left frontal lobe?

Everything I have trouble with is related to frontal lobe function.

Everything else seems right-brained and I succeed.

 

[Dreambirdie]

@Dreambirdie

I admire what you did. Two degrees, that is incredible. I gave up on college a long time ago. Not practical. My year of training for massage was hell.

Self-discipline is not in short supply for me. It took years to see I had a high level of it.

So when I ask you what it looks like for you it is an honest question. Any life hacks and tips you have are welcome. I have struggled in this area for years, trying to apply myself and get somewhere.

What Justy described is pretty much what I did. My studies were like a job that I was required to "show up" for each day. If I was really ill I gave myself a break, of course, because I had to in order to not fall apart completely. Most of the time I would be sure to stick to my daily practice of study and assignments. I used summers and vacations to get ahead as much as I could.

I have no tips or hacks to offer. In my case it really was about deciding to do it and then just doing it. One step at a time, one book at a time, one year at a time, to the end.

 

[Valentijn]

If you look at my original post, you will see my exact words: "The three most important things I needed to accomplish my goals were: passion for the subject matter, willingness to actually do the work and self-discipline to keep it up." The emphasis here is on: "I needed."

I'm afraid that your final sentence, of "Ultimately, it all boils down to just deciding and doing it.", rather suggests that it is indeed self-discipline which matters. Especially since it's your answer to someone asking for help with study tips.

We want and try to do many things. But that doesn't count for much when we're so physically and cognitively disabled.

 

[Dreambirdie]

I'm afraid that your final sentence, of "Ultimately, it all boils down to just deciding and doing it.", rather suggests that it is indeed self-discipline which matters. Especially since it's your answer to someone asking for help with study tips.

We want and try to do many things. But that doesn't count for much when we're so physically and cognitively disabled.

Again..... yes, ultimately (for me) it did and does boil down "to just deciding and doing it." Self-discipline (for me) was essential in the accomplishment of these goals. I would not have accomplished them without self-discipline. And, as I also mentioned above, I was definitely cognitively challenged. I DID have to deal with some serious cognitive impairments.

Valentijn... can I ask... why is the word "self-discipline" pushing your buttons so much? Why are you so averse to that word? If in fact you don't need self-disciline, or have enough of it, or it is not an issue for you, then why is it so charged when I bring it up? This is a real question.

 

[Valentijn]

I wish I could understand how it is you do not forget to study the way I would not forget to go to work. Getting to work is a must to survive. I forget what I set up for myself in the studying department.

Google Calendar can be set up to give you alarms.

If you click on a time period, type in a label ("Study Time", etc), and click "Edit event", you can set it up for the notification to be automatically added for the same time every day or every week. Even if the notification comes up some day when you're too sick to study, it does help you remember it and you can just ignore it when you can't handle it.

It's at https://www.google.com/calendar/ and you just need a google account (such as you have if you use gmail). It's all free.

 

[Dreambirdie]

@Valentijn In the midst of my MA degree back in 1985, I had a major toxic exposure that resulted in my becoming a universal reactor. My immune system crashed, my adrenals tanked and my liver became a mess. I was so toxic that I ached all over. I became allergic to nearly every food I was eating (except 4). I would vomit from migraines caused by eating protein, which I could no longer digest. I had to give away my cat, get rid of all my house plants, and most of my clothes which had been washed in laundry detergent I now could not tolerate.

I also became allergic to ink in books! I was bedridden for a while and had to drop out of my program for about 6 months. When I got back into my studies, I was still weak, very ill and still allergic to ink, the inhalation of which would make my brain go blank.
[B][COLOR=#000000]
I could barely think straight, DUE TO SEVERE COGNITIVE IMPAIRMENT.[/COLOR][/B]
[COLOR=#000000]
I had someone build me a reading box so I could finish reading the rest of the books on my 125-book reading list for my course work. I wrote my 265 page thesis in pencil on unbleached paper and hired a woman to type it up for me.[/COLOR]

I could not have personally done this without passion, determination and self-discipline. It was the most challenging Herculean task I ever accomplished.

 

[GracieJ]

@Dreambirdie
@Valentijn

For the record, the word self-discipline once pushed my buttons big-time. From early childhood, I was told I was lazy and good-for-nothing. Then I went to school and aced everything effortlessly. I was supposed to produce a major American novel by the age of 24. (Senior year English teacher.) I was supposed to minor in music and teach. (Speech coach.) I was supposed to become an artist. I was supposed to excel in math and science and do... You get the idea. At 27 with health issues in full scream I had a difficult time deciding what I was after those earlier years.

At 52, I know who I am and what I want out of life. My biggest problem is too much drive and not enough matching energy.

I do not think the word self-discipline is pushing any buttons, except from the point of view of sickness not allowing its application. I think anyone who graduates from college is amazing. That is a gift by itself.

As for "deciding and then doing it," well, that is great. But if too tired to remember, decision and self-discipline do not help much. It is the forgetting that is my biggest hurdle, let alone staying focused.

 

[Dreambirdie]

@GracieJ Well that ^ explains a few things, then doesn't it...

If you are too tired to even remember, then it doesn't even sound possible to add more to your to-do list. And why would you even want to? It doesn't make sense to me.

If you DO have some spare energy and want to accomplish something with that that you consider worth accomplishing, then the only thing I can offer that might be helpful is start with a reasonable goal and take smaller bites.

Good luck with whatever you do. I wish you the best with it all!

 

[JAM]

I'm in two graduate programs at the moment and graduated with a double major BA in three years, all while very ill. My keys to success have been keeping a calendar with reminders of each assignment, not having to leave the house to attend most of my classes (the exception to this was the MA program, that was all in person), and stubbornness. I refuse to let this illness beat me and feel a strong need to prove that I'm not "lazy". I know, not rational, but there it is.

If the following is considered a "sales pitch" please let me know, I mean it only as informative.

I just started working for Northern Arizona University (a state school) in their relatively new Personalized Learning program as a student teacher. I wish this had been around when I was an undergrad. The program costs $2500 for 6 months of access, which is covered by a pell grant. You can take as many classes as you want in that 6 months. You can start at any time. No due dates, fully online. It is a fully accredited program and you get the same degree as any other student at NAU upon graduation. http://pl.nau.edu There are a few other programs like it trying to earn accreditation, so a google search to compare might be a good idea if this type of program interests you.

 

[Dreambirdie]

I'm in two graduate programs at the moment and graduated with a double major BA in three years, all while very ill. My keys to success have been keeping a calendar with reminders of each assignment, not having to leave the house to attend most of my classes (the exception to this was the MA program, that was all in person), and stubbornness. I refuse to let this illness beat me and feel a strong need to prove that I'm not "lazy". I know, not rational, but there it is.

Yes, stubbornness is good too! Determination to not let this illness define me.

And also, really, you have to love what you are learning. I loved my MA program, I loved my books (even when the ink was making me physically ill to be around), and I loved learning what I learned.

 

[JAM]

Yes, stubbornness is good too! Determination to not let this illness define me.

And also, really, you have to love what you are learning. I loved my MA program, I loved my books (even when the ink was making me physically ill to be around), and I loved learning what I learned.

I did not love my MA program, but that was just because it was misrepresented. All I have left there is to finish my thesis, but I keep putting it on the back burner, even started another MEd program to procrastinate!

I love my kindle dx for many reasons, lighter than a book, easy on the eyes, holds everything, AND no ink smell!

 

[Dreambirdie]

I would not have been able to finish my MA if I didn't love the coursework.
That was a definite prerequisite for me.

So... there you go... there's no one way to go about this.

 

[Snowdrop]

@Valentijn Just so you know, in the midst of my MA degree back in 1985, I had a major toxic exposure that resulted in my becoming a universal reactor. My immune system crashed, my adrenals tanked and my liver became a mess. I was so toxic that I ached all over. I became allergic to nearly every food I was eating (except 4). I would vomit from migraines caused by eating protein, which I could no longer digest. I had to give away my cat, get rid of all my house plants, and most of my clothes which had been washed in laundry detergent I now could not tolerate.

I also became allergic to ink in books! I was bedridden for a while and had to drop out of my program for about 6 months. When I got back into my studies, I was still weak, very ill and still allergic to ink. I had someone build me a reading box so I could finish reading the rest of the books on my 125-book reading list for my course work. I wrote my 265 page thesis in pencil on unbleached paper and hired a woman to type it up for me.

I could not have personally done this without passion, determination and self-discipline. It was the most challenging Herculean task I ever accomplished.

That's great that you could rise to that challenge. But nothing you described as your health issues above had anything to do with cognitive impairment. Cognitive impairment in turn can manifest in a variety of ways no less than physical impairments. And yes, for some people all the self-discipline in the world will not be enough to overcome some types of cognitive deficits.

 

[Dreambirdie]

That's great that you could rise to that challenge. But nothing you described as your health issues above had anything to do with cognitive impairment. Cognitive impairment in turn can manifest in a variety of ways no less than physical impairments. And yes, for some people all the self-discipline in the world will not be enough to overcome some types of cognitive deficits.

When you are chemically blasted and disabled by MCS, then cognitive impairment becomes one of the TOP symptoms. I thought that was so obvious that I didn't even need to mention it.

So now I will re-edit and make sure to put that in there... in bold caps.

I could barely think straight, DUE TO SEVERE COGNITIVE IMPAIRMENT.

thanks for the heads-up.

 

[Snowdrop]

Cognitive impairment in turn can manifest in a variety of ways no less than physical impairments. And yes, for some people all the self-discipline in the world will not be enough to overcome some types of cognitive deficits.

 

[Hell...Hath...No...Fury..]

@GracieJ I think anyone who manages to achieve any kind of formal study with ME deserves a medal.
It does sound like you have a heck of a lot on your plate already to be even contemplating taking it on but when you have a need to do it it doesn't go away.

I started a BS open university degree (while housebound and mainly bedridden) many years ago and it nearly killed me. I chose random science subjects that i had huge enthusiasm for such as planetary sciences, astronomy, cosmology but it soon turned to torture when the cognitive problems grew and grew because of the ongoing onslaught to my brain.

I even changed tack and squeezed a couple of helpful courses in to help myself such as cardiology and biological psychology so i could learn more about the brain and have courses that didn't involve pages and pages of equations but that didn't help too much then i tried to rest my brain further by doing a creative writing course but of course there's no such thing as rest with non stop uni deadlines.

Even picking courses that require say 5 hours a week; total around 30 hours or more a week for someone with severe cognitive dusfunction just to be able to read the amount required and understand it let alone write papers on it.

(After doing all the work required there was no way of storing any information learned so absolutely everything i studied - and also did well on - not an ounce of it remained in my brain) so even if i did complete the degree, i'd have it on paper but without any of the relevant knowledge that i should have)

I think it took me 5 years just to complete half a degree as i could never study two years in a row as i needed a full year to recover from the previous course it messed me up that badly.

That was all 7 years ago and i'll never get back to completing it because i now live alone and it would be dangerous to do that to my brain again when i need to survive. I'm still annoyed by this.

I think for me because studying was so damaging and became torturous as a result, it was less self determination required and more massachism in copius amounts and a lot of stubborness because i'd suffered so much during each course it would be a waste to not finish each course.

If you think you can handle it on top of the workload you already have then definitely give it a go and test the waters. But if you're too tired to remember things it will probably exhaust you and can you take the risk of affecting the full time work you do now because of it? Or setting yourself back? Only you know how much more you can handle

 

[GracieJ]

The program costs $2500 for 6 months of access, which is covered by a pell grant. You can take as many classes as you want in that 6 months. You can start at any time. No due dates, fully online. It is a fully accredited program and you get the same degree as any other student at NAU upon graduation. http://pl.nau.edu There are a few other programs like it trying to earn accreditation, so a google search to compare might be a good idea if this type of program interests you.

That is so cool! I will have to look for that in my area.

 

[GracieJ]

@Hell...Hath...No...Fury.. I am not looking at college work or a degree. I am only trying to identify effective ways for me to succeed with studying a single subject at a time consistently without huge gaps in the project. Like anything one takes on, it pays to consult those with the best success track record - people who have college degrees or are in classes are a logical resource.

Continuity gives a sense of normalcy. Cultivating it in my life once again is a welcome addition.

As far as the time and energy constraints - yes, supporting myself is number one.

A close second is keeping my morale high so the first one happens.

Learning new things keeps my morale up.

 

[Hell...Hath...No...Fury..]

If not college work, i'd go to my local community and see whats available there.

There are usually tons of classes running a couple of hours a week with none or little homework required and very little pressure. That way you'd stand a better chance of keeping it going and boost your confidence a little

 

[CantThink]

(After doing all the work required there was no way of storing any information learned so absolutely everything i studied - and also did well on - not an ounce of it remained in my brain) so even if i did complete the degree, i'd have it on paper but without any of the relevant knowledge that i should have)

That's what happened me. I can't remember any of it. It's embarrassing! People ask me questions related to my degree occasionally and I'm like:

*deafening silence, mouth open, letting the flies in, eyes glazed over*

:thumbdown:

I dont regret it as it was the most independent, normal experience of my life with M.E. so far, but it made me so much worse that by the end of it I was bed bound. In that respect it was bittersweet.

I have done two short courses since - distance/online learning. I found them cognitively challenging but definitely easier from a physical perspective.