Study details how aerobic exercise reverses degenerative process that leads to metabolic diseases

[Learner1]

My most likely hypothesis for why T2 reduced my ME is that T2 is involved in miRNA transcription. One dose of T2 did something that persisted for a consistent 21 day period, and blocking or assisting in miRNA transcription seems to fit.

So, how did you measure T2?

 

[junkcrap50]

something like the wim hof method or soma breath could in effect replicate the exercise, however i've tried both and Wim Hof didn't do anything and soma breath made me worse - gave me very unpleasant low mood exactly 24 hours after doing the exercises.

Ah that's a good idea. I have been researching "Intermittant Hypoxia Training" and considering trying it. I think it may mimic exercise to some degree. The basis for IHT is intermittent short-term breathing with a hypoxic gas mixture followed by atmospheric respiration at normal barometric pressure. There is research and literature on it.

Wim Hof and other breathing exercises is one way to do it.

With clinical IHT treatment, there is a machine with different gas canisters of various oxygen concentrations at a fixed percent: 15% O2 (hypoxic), 22% O2 (normal air at sea level), and 100% (hyperoxia). It alternates between 15% and 22% (or higher oxygen concentrations) for set time periods while you breath the oxygen gas. You are laying down while doing this. The science of this was discovered by a German scientist, Ardenne.

If you have an oxygen concentrator, you are capable of doing this. It exactly what LiveO2 (an exercise with oxygen therapy (EWOT) product company) uses. The exhaust waste of an oxygen concentrator, after it has scrubbed the oxygen from it, is around 15% oxygen from my research. It is not 0% oxygen as one might assume. It is how "altitude training" machines work. They are oxygen concentrators but in reverse, they exhaust oxygen as waste.

I believe @Hopeful2021 has been using this therapy and has had some very good results with it. See here posts in this thread: https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/oxygen-training-vs-hbot.80940/post-2295268

 

[Rufous McKinney]

something like the wim hof method or soma breath could in effect replicate the exercise, however i've tried both and Wim Hof didn't do anything and soma breath made me worse

there is a recent interview with Wim Hoff on You tube- with Mikala Peterson and Jordon Peterson- it was almost funny watching Jordan practice some breathing techniques.

wish he would give up his current agenda and become our spokesperson. He recently went thru severe benzo withdrawal in Russia....

 

[Rufous McKinney]

Realizing how difficult it us for many of us to exercise at all

all rather reminds me of my chat on the phone with my chinese herbalist....he is telling me I can't manage my insulin resistence unless I exercise.

"I can't exercise" I stated with some internalized background agitation.

(I have in fact managed to control my pre-type 2...by not exercising).

 

[xebex]

@junkcrap50 yes there was someone on here who made much improvement with intermittent hypoxia training- I wish i remember who it was.

In theory wim hof should replicated that but nothing for me. Soma breath is also similar but it seems more gentle to me - made me soo depressed though - people were saying it was releasing repressed trauma BS, but it was like on the dot chemical change in my brain exactly 24 hours after doing it. And eevry time i did it the same thing would happen - i guess those repressed traumas work to a strict schedule lol.

 

[junkcrap50]

@junkcrap50 yes there was someone on here who made much improvement with intermittent hypoxia training- I wish i remember who it was.

@Hopeful2021 and possibly @Kimer Med (see Kimer's story here)

 

[Wishful]

So, how did you measure T2?

I didn't measure my T2, since it would be hard to find a lab that does it. I simply observed the effects of taking additional T2, which were quite dramatic. I don't think my unsupplemented T2 levels are abnormal; I think that the abrupt boost of T2 does something, such as blocking or boosting production of a protein. It might be a critical component for production of some cells, since that precise and consistent 21 day lifespan of whatever it is seems like something I'd expect of a cell, with a timing mechanism, rather than a simple protein which would decrease at a linear rate.

 

[Wishful]

all rather reminds me of my chat on the phone with my chinese herbalist....he is telling me I can't manage my insulin resistence unless I exercise.

One thing I noticed in an article about T2 is that it can reduce insulin resistance and affect glucose metabolism. I haven't looked into that aspect, but for anyone who does have insulin issues that aren't being treated effectively otherwise, T2 might be a possibility.

 

[Diwi9]

Just curious if anyone knows whether the NIH Intramural Study is having ME patients perform exercise while in the metabolic chamber?

 

[Hopeful2021]

@junkcrap50 yes there was someone on here who made much improvement with intermittent hypoxia training- I wish i remember who it was.

In theory wim hof should replicated that but nothing for me. Soma breath is also similar but it seems more gentle to me - made me soo depressed though - people were saying it was releasing repressed trauma BS, but it was like on the dot chemical change in my brain exactly 24 hours after doing it. And eevry time i did it the same thing would happen - i guess those repressed traumas work to a strict schedule lol.

@xebex .... I wouldn't call my interval oxygen training hypoxia..... it's more like high altitude mimic training.... hypoxia is pretty hard core.

yeah The physiological changes are pretty rapid. I particularly like the boost of endorphins. But also at the cellular mitochondria level, professional athletes know also to change the car. Now I'm really far from that level, but it's really invigorating and I highly recommend it.

 

[Hopeful2021]

@Hopeful2021 and possibly @Kimer Med (see Kimer's story here)

Thks @junkcrap50
It was me
i got a new bike. My old rusty one was jacking up my knee. Still dealing with that knee.
But I'm combining the desaturation/saturation training with Biocharger and other devices. Pretty stoked at my progress.
The deeper i get into fixing the instability in my neck/throat/skull/jaw eyes though, the more setbacks can happen. So it is a slow process and sometimes I can't train.

 

[Rufous McKinney]

The deeper i get into fixing the instability in my neck/throat/skull/jaw eyes

What is your approach to fixing these instabiities?

 

[junkcrap50]

@xebex .... I wouldn't call my interval oxygen training hypoxia..... it's more like high altitude mimic training.... hypoxia is pretty hard core.

yeah The physiological changes are pretty rapid. I particularly like the boost of endorphins. But also at the cellular mitochondria level, professional athletes know also to change the car. Now I'm really far from that level, but it's really invigorating and I highly recommend it.

Well I know it's not actual hypoxia, but "Hypoxia Training" is the name / label / what it's called of altitude training. To find research on pubmed, the term "Intermittant Hypoxia Training" is used frequently.

How have your muscles responded? Stronger? Do they have more endurance?

 

[Shen]

This is my hypothesis, but finding a way to gradually exercise without triggering a crash its going to be crucial for most to heal. A very good amount of symptoms from ME are from an extreme case of deconditioning, Biologically we are made to be active, when we can´t we get sick, there are studies about how the inmune system, and organs start to malfunctioning and begging to shutdown from deconditioning. and that generates a whole cascade of other symptoms, and it makes a loop for whatever possible infection its inside you worsening your state. even when the infection its gone, most people are so messed up physically that they would be in the same state.

I believe most sympthoms of ME its from an extremely disfunctional inmune system triying to get rid of a pathogen or a virus without success + The consequences of basically being on a vegetative state from lack of an active life.

The problem is that ME its tricky because of the PEM. in that case. I think the cure would be a mix of treating the hidden infection, supporting the immune system and a very gradual increase of movement at the same time.

I´m being controversial here but the ME protocol of pacing still makes people sicker. they maintain symptoms but they slowly worsen overtime and they fault themselves "Oh I was too active, my fault" no dude, you can´t blame yourself for this its the protocol it ,doesn´t work, maybe it doesn´t make you sicker than GET, but its still a shitty protocol that makes you sicker, just more slowly, even people who cannot move at all are in the worst state they keep getting worse.

I have also wondered if PEM its just a herx reaction of a more active inmune system, just an extreme version of this reaction, because a herx reaction sounds awfully similar to PEM in basics: Worsening symptoms and even new ones, a lot of brain fog and fatigue. that can last until there is no more of the infection.
This is because the inmune system reacts to the pathogen being excreted. if that its the case, running from PEM would actually be what makes people sicker. in bacteria and fungi infections the herx reaction happens very frequently. what if a "viral overgrowth" exist, and PEM its just an extreme reaction of the virus dying and the immune system reacting to this.

Yes, I´m doing a lot of assumptions, but the inmune system works very similarly in mechanics towards pathogens, maybe some virals ones triggers an extreme version of this.

 

[Wishful]

A very good amount of symptoms from ME are from an extreme case of deconditioning,

None of my ME symptoms are from deconditioning, since ME didn't stop me from being active. Besides, many of us start off moderate to severe, and you don't get deconditioned in days or weeks. Deconditioning may gradually add or worsen symptoms, but it isn't the cause of ME symptoms.

 

[Shen]

None of my KE symptoms are from deconditioning, since ME didn't stop me from being active. Besides, many of us start off moderate to severe, and you don't get deconditioned in days or weeks. Deconditioning may gradually add or worsen symptoms, but it isn't the cause of ME symptoms.

I have seen people develop dysautonomia related symptoms when they are bedbound (outside of ME), they start to develop a weak heart,hipotension, POTS like symptoms, gastroparesis, weakness, vertigo ,dizziness, weight loss/gain,fatigue, fainting and so much more just because they suddenly can't go out of bed (injury for example). and this is only on 2 to 3 months mostly bedbound. that's how I base my hypothesis. imagine years like that.

 

[Hopeful2021]

This is my hypothesis, but finding a way to gradually exercise without triggering a crash its going to be crucial for most to heal. A very good amount of symptoms from ME are from an extreme case of deconditioning, Biologically we are made to be active, when we can´t we get sick, there are studies about how the inmune system, and organs start to malfunctioning and begging to shutdown from deconditioning. and that generates a whole cascade of other symptoms, and it makes a loop for whatever possible infection its inside you worsening your state. even when the infection its gone, most people are so messed up physically that they would be in the same state.

I believe most sympthoms of ME its from an extremely disfunctional inmune system triying to get rid of a pathogen or a virus without success + The consequences of basically being on a vegetative state from lack of an active life.

The problem is that ME its tricky because of the PEM. in that case. I think the cure would be a mix of treating the hidden infection, supporting the immune system and a very gradual increase of movement at the same time.

I´m being controversial here but the ME protocol of pacing still makes people sicker. they maintain symptoms but they slowly worsen overtime and they fault themselves "Oh I was too active, my fault" no dude, you can´t blame yourself for this its the protocol it ,doesn´t work, maybe it doesn´t make you sicker than GET, but its still a shitty protocol that makes you sicker, just more slowly, even people who cannot move at all are in the worst state they keep getting worse.

I have also wondered if PEM its just a herx reaction of a more active inmune system, just an extreme version of this reaction, because a herx reaction sounds awfully similar to PEM in basics: Worsening symptoms and even new ones, a lot of brain fog and fatigue. that can last until there is no more of the infection.
This is because the inmune system reacts to the pathogen being excreted. if that its the case, running from PEM would actually be what makes people sicker. in bacteria and fungi infections the herx reaction happens very frequently. what if a "viral overgrowth" exist, and PEM its just an extreme reaction of the virus dying and the immune system reacting to this.

Yes, I´m doing a lot of assumptions, but the inmune system works very similarly in mechanics towards pathogens, maybe some virals ones triggers an extreme version of this.

I got rid of my PEM by using PEMF therapy
A strong and fast one too

 

[Hopeful2021]

Well I know it's not actual hypoxia, but "Hypoxia Training" is the name / label / what it's called of altitude training. To find research on pubmed, the term "Intermittant Hypoxia Training" is used frequently.

How have your muscles responded? Stronger? Do they have more endurance?

@junkcrap50 yes. They are much stronger now. It makes me quite happy. I had a setback with this old rusty bike and my knee. But my new bike and being mindful have helped. I'm pretty depressed though. I still log ten to twenty minutes the majority in low oxygen. The endorphins are important now. And also as depressed as I am, this therapy is vital to keeping my brain up to par. I do need a session or two of Hyperbariac oxygen.... but so far, the LiveO2 has given me a robust bit of energy for about 1-2 hours after I've done at least two days in a row. I usually can't do 5 days. Then there's too much hyper mobility in my tissues

 

[Hopeful2021]

What is your approach to fixing these instabiities?

@Rufous McKinney
IV NAD and NAD nasal spray
Lots of supplements
Homemade/DIY magnesium bicarbonate water on the list bc of desaturation/saturation oxygen training
LiveO2 training (above)
Biocharger
And neuroplasticity devices to help
Brain / nervous system / muscles learn new old patterns and let go of old
Red light/amber light LED and IR and laser therapy
Trying to improve sleep for another component

If had to pick three
Biocharger
Magnesium bicarbonate water
IV NAD

doing more retraining work with neck / jaw/ throat
since having Biocharger and other device, feel like I can be past phase of hyper mobility in 3-6 months

 

[junkcrap50]

@junkcrap50 yes. They are much stronger now. It makes me quite happy.

What about muscle pain and aches, muscle burning, muscle tensions?

I just finished building my Exercise With Oxygen Therapy (EWOT) and Intermittant Hypoxia Training (IHT) setup. Pretty easy and pretty cheap since I already had an oxygen concentrator. So I am looking to start doing both soon.