Study details how aerobic exercise reverses degenerative process that leads to metabolic diseases

[Learner1]

Realizing how difficult it us for many of us to exercise at all vs doing any kind of aerobic exercise, this study is worth investigating for how it may apply to ME/CFS.

What are we missing out on? And what does this say for those of us doing high intensity aerobic exercise prior to becoming ill?

https://medicalxpress.com/news/2020-12-aerobic-reverses-degenerative-metabolic-diseases.html

Research has shown that both aging and obesity can impair the production of these regulatory microRNAs by adipose tissue and favor the development of diseases such as diabetes and dyslipidemia. The good news is that this degenerative process can be reversed by practicing regular aerobic exercise, according to a study published in Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences (PNAS).

"Experiments with mice and humans have shown that aerobic exercise stimulates expression of an enzyme called DICER, which is essential to the processing of these microRNAs. We, therefore, observed an increase in production of these regulatory molecules by adipose cells, with several benefits for the metabolism,"

 

[Wishful]

Good. That makes my sometimes boring 'walks for exercise' more tolerable.

 

[xebex]

i don't know what to make of it - i was training as a competitive BMX racer - i cycled 30 miles a week( to work and back) and then more on weekends - i was dong strength and conditioning 3x per week at the gym, I was racing monthly, I was ridiculously SUPER fit, my biceps were as big as my husbands! All i can think of is that i broke myself

 

[wabi-sabi]

I don't have the ability to read this article right now. However, two thoughts come to mind.

1) Does this just apply to healthy people and not people with certain types of chronic illnesses? Exercise is great, but not right after you've had a heart attack.

2) The more pessimistic thought: this type of benefit is closed to us because our bodies are unable to sustain aerobic exercise (at least mine sure is!)

 

[Gondwanaland]

i don't know what to make of it - i was training as a competitive BMX racer - i cycled 30 miles a week( to work and back) and then more on weekends - i was dong strength and conditioning 3x per week at the gym, I was racing monthly, I was ridiculously SUPER fit, my biceps were as big as my husbands! All i can think of is that i broke myself

Are you familiar with the concept of overtraining?

 

[bensmith]

@xebex weird how we are all so similar.

 

[xebex]

Are you familiar with the concept of overtraining?

yes i've looked into it, I was training with a team, none of them got sick, i wasn't training THAT hard in fact my teammates were all training harder than me, one of my friends was on the BMX olympic team - her schedule was INTENSE!. I do however believe that "overtraining" could be a trigger for ME, its all part of my story for sure - i believe that in genetically susceptible people it doesn't take that much to "overtrain" and flip the switch so to speak -once i quit training I was much better but i was never able to race BMX again, and there were other factors behind my illness. I was "fine" until 2 days after a vaccine but also had a lot of mental stress and possibly was exposed to both offgassing of a new office building AND hidden mold in an apartment i had just bought plus 4 years of no sleep due to noisy and aggressive neighbours - not a simple story for sure. One thing i should say is that overtraining doesn't stick around and cause the severe ME i have been faced with thats got progressively worse over the last 10 years - i quit the training 10 years ago - and quit all exercise 3 years ago - now i'm lying down 21 hours a day - overtraining also doesn't cause PEM.

 

[Gondwanaland]

I was "fine" until 2 days after a vaccine but also had a lot of mental stress and possibly was exposed to both offgassing of a new office building AND hidden mold in an apartment i had just bought plus 4 years of no sleep due to noisy and aggressive neighbours

There you go!
My case was similarly a pile of "offenses and injuries" to my immune system.

 

[bensmith]

Same just a laundry list of events. Over years.

 

[xebex]

@Gondwanaland yes I just can't believe how one person could be subject to so many insults- but for me it is certainly all part of it.

 

[Gondwanaland]

Strangely I never read a mention about Radon on this forum. I just did a search, there are some mentions, but apparently no discussion about it.

 

[ljimbo423]

i don't know what to make of it - i was training as a competitive BMX racer - i cycled 30 miles a week( to work and back) and then more on weekends - i was dong strength and conditioning 3x per week at the gym, I was racing monthly, I was ridiculously SUPER fit, my biceps were as big as my husbands! All i can think of is that i broke myself

I think like so many things, too much or too little exercise can cause problems. I think my ME/CFS started in my gut, from many things. Not the least of which was dozens of courses of antibiotics.

This quote below might help explain why so many of us were very athletic before we developed ME/CFS.

5.1. Exercise and Gut Physiology
Low intensity exercise can influence the GIT reducing the transient stool time and thus the contact time between the pathogens and the gastrointestinal mucus layer [5].

As a consequence, it seems that exercise has protective effects, reducing the risk of colon cancer, diverticulosis, and inflammatory bowel disease [47]. In addition, even in the presence of high fat diet, exercise may reduce inflammatory infiltrate and protect the morphology and the integrity of the intestine [48].

High fat diet, accompanied with sedentary behavior, leads to increased villi width due to plasmacytoid and lymphocytic infiltrates. Exercise prevented these morphological changes by reducing cyclooxygenase 2 (Cox-2) expression in both proximal and distal gut.

Conversely, it appears that endurance exercise determines a variation in the GIT due to the reduction of the splanchnic blood flow, as much as 80% of basal levels, resulting in toxicity effects [47, 49].

This reduction depends on the increase of arterial resistance in the splanchnic vascular bed, secondary to augmentation of sympathetic nervous system input [47].

Prolonged exercise also determines an increase of intestinal permeability, compromising gut-barrier function and resulting in bacterial translocation from the colon [47, 50].

Reference

 

[wabi-sabi]

Ah, moderation in all things!

 

[xebex]

I think like so many things, too much or too little exercise can cause problems. I think my ME/CFS started in my gut, from many things. Not the least of which was dozens of courses of antibiotics.

This quote below might help explain why so many of us were very athletic before we developed ME/CFS.



Reference

@ljimbo423 interesting- removing gluten certainly helped in the start when i was mild- i avoid it like the plague now. Also when i was training i did have slow gut motility - but that went away when i cut oats out- then depression brainfog and body aches went away when i cut gluten and sugar - ME still eventually kicked in at full volume though.

 

[Learner1]

So, definitely overtraining can have negative effects which can lead us to develop/worsen ME/CFS.

Wondering what not being able to exercise or not being able to do aerobic activity does to our metabolisms that may get in the way of getting well?

Wonder if we could add that missing ingredient in another way??

 

[xebex]

So, definitely overtraining can have negative effects which can lead us to develop/worsen ME/CFS.

Wondering what not being able to exercise or not being able to do aerobic activity does to our metabolisms that may get in the way of getting well?

Wonder if we could add that missing ingredient in another way??

something like the wim hof method or soma breath could in effect replicate the exercise, however i've tried both and Wim Hof didn't do anything and soma breath made me worse - gave me very unpleasant low mood exactly 24 hours after doing the exercises. I think there is value to the cold showers but i just can't be bothered at the moment, feeling hopeless - i was a member of a facebook group where several people were finding improvement with the cold showers.

 

[Judee]

Someone posted about this yesterday in this thread: https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/test-for-me-cfs.82298/#post-2311447

It's about a new test for ME where they measure these microRNAs though the article is not clear on whether they differ in healthy subjects vs ME/CFS patients.

It just seems to indicate the microRNA's change after the first part of the test which is done by using an inflateable arm cuff for mechanical stimulation (I guess like exercising) and inducing PEM.

Then they do a blood draw to measure 11 of these microRNAs. It's supposed to provide "an extra molecular signature" I guess to help researchers distinguish patient's from non-patients but then the article talks about using it for predicting the patient's therapeutic response to treatment drugs so I'm not clear on how they are using it for diagnostics.

However, it does sound like these microRNA's change after exercising in people with ME/CFS so it sounds like we still don't get the anti-aging benefits of exercising unfortunately.

 

[lenora]

Judee....Hello. Yes, Metabolic Syndrome is real and I now have it. Mind you, I'm going on 74, but when I was walking I still had a waist and my abdomen was much smaller. True, I've gained wt. due to meds (that part is quite true, and has happened to me in the past). I really don't want to add diabetes to the mix of problems I have...good grief, somedays it feels like a full-time job, with overtime.

I think for us, those of us who can do it, walking is a great form of exercise. It's not hard on the joints and you can go at the speed that is best for you. My goal is to return to walking, although I'm not trying to race anyone. I think it can help with abdominal fat that is caused by Metabolic Syndrome. It's definitely not my eating, but some drugs do add weight to you.

I was recently in PT at my neurologist's suggestion. What we need is something called Myosfascial Therapy, (which I had), not regular PT, that's too much for us. Anyway, when I told my cardiovascular surgeon about the neck movements I was doing he told me not to do them any longer. I just had a stent implanted in my carotid artery and he was concerned that it may cause it to be displaced and then I'd be in real trouble. I'll listen to his advice, but I'm hopeful that my therapist will be able to give me other exercises that may accomplish the same goals. Thanks to those exercises, I'm now able to turn my head properly. Also, it made me feel as if I was doing something good for my body. FYI....I did them on my bed. I like being outside, and the cooler weather is great, although winds can be high at times. I used to do between 3-6 miles per day, worked my way back up to about 2 and then managed to have 3 rounds of shingles. I've not been able to sustain the energy for walking since then. But I will keep trying. In the meantime, I walk around the house...anything to keep moving. And trust me, I'm no Olympian and that's just fine. That's not my goal. Our bodies do change as we age....just like our hair color. And it's true, everything heads downwards. Even when I wore a size small, my waist was often too large and I'd have to cut into the pants. I looked tiny, but it was a far cry from past years. Well now, I don't look so very tiny and it annoys me to have to buy clothes for a body that just blew up. It happens.

@xebex....I once read that the dancer Martha Graham (last name??) was bedridden for years as a child. She noticed that her cat stretched constantly and she started doing the same thing and imagined that she was exercising her body. It would seem that it worked for her, and when she no longer had to be bedridden, she immediately entered the world of dance and very controlled movements. I don't know if our imaginations can do that, but it's worth a try if you're totally bedridden. Wishing everyone well. Yours, Lenora.

 

[Learner1]

the article talks about using it for predicting the patient's therapeutic response to treatment drugs so I'm not clear on how they are using it for diagnostics.

What treatments were they testing? I'm not sure they're that far along. I believe they just found a difference with their diagnostic test between ME/CFS patients and healthy people. And the test sure wasnt on exercise - it was on patients with very little activity ability.

But, your point of the stress changing the miRNAs is a good one. The key would be finding treatments, other than exercise that change then in a good way, maybe? Or reverse negative effects that healthy people don't experience (like PEM)?

 

[Wishful]

The key would be finding treatments, other than exercise that change then in a good way, maybe?

My most likely hypothesis for why T2 reduced my ME is that T2 is involved in miRNA transcription. One dose of T2 did something that persisted for a consistent 21 day period, and blocking or assisting in miRNA transcription seems to fit.