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starving with keto

Messages
23
i am ashamed to post this but i need advice
i met somebody who was a huge fan of Aajonus Vonderplanitz , the guy who spreaded the "raw primal diet"
please vegans , this could be a trigger post for you .
he convinced me that the key of healing was getting back to the roots and eating just raw meat, raw milk, raw cheese and raw organs. i really made an effort ( i cried to eat the organs its really disgusting) and i feel better the first days, but then it came to the same as always.
i lost my appetite and i have intense fatigue, i already have heart issues ( cardiomyopathy, POTS, heart valves inssuficiency) and i cant even stand up, it made me worse. i look yellow and i lost at ONCE half of my hair ( and i already have intense hairloss)
i dont do well on keto, or maybe do i have to wait more time? i was eating lots of sugars for many years, as i have also a eating disorder ( being alone at home all day and struggling with ME put me on this adicction ) , and i recently found out i do not ONLY have huge inflammation , i also have diabetes 2. I wanted to fix this but i am afraid my body dies in this try...
its keto bad for us?
 

Crux

Senior Member
Messages
1,441
Location
USA
he convinced me that the key of healing was getting back to the roots and eating just raw meat, raw milk, raw cheese and raw organs

I would lose my appetite too ! Eating raw meat / organs is an acquired taste.

Organs are very nutritious, but extremely high in iron . Too much and too little iron can cause similar symptoms. Fatigue, hair loss and more.
Iron can accumulate in the heart causing cardiomyopathy.
Diabetes is associated with iron dyshomeostasis.

Protein and fat are filling, but maybe there is some nutrient missing.
Greens are nutrient dense and low carb.
Nuts and seeds are nutrient dense, but they have more carbs, and can be a trigger. Tahini is low carb, and has good fats, etc.

Some people feel better with keto, and some don't. It can take months to find out.

Your symptoms look not so good. Is there another doctor who can guide you personally ?
 

Mary

Moderator Resource
Messages
17,291
Location
Southern California
i dont do well on keto, or maybe do i have to wait more time? i was eating lots of sugars for many years, as i have also a eating disorder ( being alone at home all day and struggling with ME put me on this adicction ) , and i recently found out i do not ONLY have huge inflammation , i also have diabetes 2. I wanted to fix this but i am afraid my body dies in this try...
its keto bad for us?
Like @Crux said above, some people do well with keto and some don't. I reacted very badly to it after 5 days or so and had to stop. But you don't have to do the keto diet to help with diabetes. Awhile ago I came across a doctor who was actually reversing type 2 diabetes with diet. I can't find the link right now but will look for it later and if I find it, I'll post it. There's a lot of info on-line about proper diet for diabetes, and it does not have to be the keto diet.
 

Diwi9

Administrator
Messages
1,780
Location
USA
I'm on an adaptive form of the ketogenic diet. I have never looked into a raw primal diet, so I do not know the basis of it. The keto diet is based on shifting the body's energy production from reliance on glucose-driven energy cycles, to one utilizing ketones. In this process, the body tends to shed water that is stored in fat cells...requiring increased fluid and electrolyte intake. Many people on a keto diet will break the diet intermittently to ensure that glycogen stores are recuperated. Also, utilizing urine tests strips to monitor if one has crossed the line into ketoacidosis, which is dangerous. I do not have Type 2 Diabetes, but have heard that those with it are more prone to ketoacidosis on the keto diet.
 

Wolfcub

Senior Member
Messages
7,089
Location
SW UK
@Berzerkerina No keto isn't bad for "us" but it might be exactly the wrong approach for some people. We are all different, and it seems there is no perfect one-size solution to ME/CFS. Each person find something to help. But what helps one doesn't always help another....

(I used to eat raw meat and raw liver for fun when I was 10 years old. I loved the taste and texture. It freaked my mother out!) LOL! I could still just about do it if I had to, but am mostly vegetarian now, except I do eat fish sometimes. As far as I can make out, my diet is supportive at the moment for me. But again....that would not necessarily be right for someone else!
 
Messages
23
I would lose my appetite too ! Eating raw meat / organs is an acquired taste.

Organs are very nutritious, but extremely high in iron . Too much and too little iron can cause similar symptoms. Fatigue, hair loss and more.
Iron can accumulate in the heart causing cardiomyopathy.
Diabetes is associated with iron dyshomeostasis.

Protein and fat are filling, but maybe there is some nutrient missing.
Greens are nutrient dense and low carb.
Nuts and seeds are nutrient dense, but they have more carbs, and can be a trigger. Tahini is low carb, and has good fats, etc.

Some people feel better with keto, and some don't. It can take months to find out.

Your symptoms look not so good. Is there another doctor who can guide you personally ?
no, i dont have money to pay a doctor here who cares about my symptoms.
doctors ignored me for years and still ignore my illneses. my hematologist sees that i have anemia but high ferritine and he just says, he wont do anything because its impossible to know why i have this. i am too sick and if he makes too much tests he will get problems with the assurance. other hematologists care even less about this. if i go to cardiologist and tell him this could be iron he wont say anything. whats the treatment for this? how do i get iron out of my heart?
 

Mary

Moderator Resource
Messages
17,291
Location
Southern California
@Berzerkerina - here's the link I was thinking of, to a youtube video with Dr. Jason Wong explaining how he is reversing type 2 diabetes with diet and, I think, fasting. (I saw it quite awhile ago) I had sent it to my sister, whose husband developed diabetes, after being on a statin. There is a link between statins and diabetes. I found the video fascinating and very encouraging for people with diabetes:

 

Mary

Moderator Resource
Messages
17,291
Location
Southern California
doctors ignored me for years and still ignore my illneses. my hematologist sees that i have anemia but high ferritine and he just says, he wont do anything because its impossible to know why i have this. i am too sick and if he makes too much tests he will get problems with the assurance. other hematologists care even less about this. if i go to cardiologist and tell him this could be iron he wont say anything. whats the treatment for this? how do i get iron out of my heart?
I think it would be good if you did a separate thread asking in the title of the thread for help with your anemia, ferritin and iron issues. The title of this thread is about the keto diet, so people who might be able to help with your iron issues might not look at it.
 

taniaaust1

Senior Member
Messages
13,054
Location
Sth Australia
i lost my appetite and i have intense fatigue, i already have heart issues ( cardiomyopathy, POTS, heart valves inssuficiency) and i cant even stand up, it made me worse. i look yellow and i lost at ONCE half of my hair
its keto bad for us?

If anything is making you change colour and yellow (if it isnt from too many carrots) and causing a heap of your hair to drop out, I'd think it was not good for you.

going yellow sounds like jaudice.. liver issues... your body struggling to break down things.

Also be aware that issues with lactose are more common in the ME/CFS community.
 

JES

Senior Member
Messages
1,318
no, i dont have money to pay a doctor here who cares about my symptoms.
doctors ignored me for years and still ignore my illneses. my hematologist sees that i have anemia but high ferritine and he just says, he wont do anything because its impossible to know why i have this. i am too sick and if he makes too much tests he will get problems with the assurance. other hematologists care even less about this. if i go to cardiologist and tell him this could be iron he wont say anything. whats the treatment for this? how do i get iron out of my heart?

High ferritin could be a symptom of hemochromatosis.

Regarding diets, I don't think there is enough scientific consensus to tell even on whole population level what diets are best. It becomes even more difficult to predict the best diet for someone with ME/CFS and it may be that what is good for a normal metabolism makes us worse and vice versa. For example, Norwegian researchers have found abnormalities in metabolizing sugars due to inhibited pyruvate dehydrogenase enzyme, so a diet where the primary energy source is not sugar would make sense from this perspective.

Many people here react problematically to a ketogenic diet, I haven't yet managed to maintain it due to increased fatigue. You could look into alternative diets popular among autoimmune disease sufferers like SCD, paleo and GAPS.
 
Last edited:

Seven7

Seven
Messages
3,444
Location
USA
I am trying to be Keto ( I cheat on and off) but overall I am doing KETO, but I had issues of being weak and starving also, I added more good oils, specially MCT oil (it can cause upset tummy so be careful) but adding oil to meals did the trick for me. Best of lucks, I hate when we try soemtihng and it made us worst instead of help.
 

Tammy

Senior Member
Messages
2,167
Location
New Mexico
i lost my appetite and i have intense fatigue, i already have heart issues ( cardiomyopathy, POTS, heart valves inssuficiency) and i cant even stand up, it made me worse. i look yellow and i lost at ONCE half of my hair ( and i already have intense hairloss)
i dont do well on keto, or maybe do i have to wait more time?
Just my personal opinion............a high fat diet like Keto would be the worst for someone with heart issues. Also If you are looking yellow....that's a bigtime red flag that your liver is getting overburdened and the high fat diet isn't helping the liver. I personally do not think the keto diet is good. Our brains run off of glucose and the liver desperately needs it's glycogen reserves. When the body gets starved of glucose (I'm talking healthy sugars from fruits and veggies) the adrenals will have to work harder also.
 

heapsreal

iherb 10% discount code OPA989,
Messages
10,079
Location
australia (brisbane)
Low carb type diets have an initial diuretic effect so you can be low in sodium and potassium. Either take an electrolyte supp and or salt your food and eat some green veges for potassium. Its usually the during that first week and then things are fine. But its probably better for most to increase sodium intake and add green veg to a low carb diet.
 

MTpockets

Senior Member
Messages
202
Location
AZ, USA
One cause of anemia with high ferritin is vitamin b12 deficiency anemia or folic acid deficiency anemia. Put me on the list of anti keto people. I did terrible on that diet.
 

HowToEscape?

Senior Member
Messages
626
i am ashamed to post this but i need advice
i met somebody who was a huge fan of Aajonus Vonderplanitz , the guy who spreaded the "raw primal diet"
please vegans , this could be a trigger post for you .
he convinced me that the key of healing was getting back to the roots and eating just raw meat, raw milk, raw cheese and raw organs. i really made an effort ( i cried to eat the organs its really disgusting) and i feel better the first days, but then it came to the same as always.
i lost my appetite and i have intense fatigue, i already have heart issues ( cardiomyopathy, POTS, heart valves inssuficiency) and i cant even stand up, it made me worse. i look yellow and i lost at ONCE half of my hair ( and i already have intense hairloss)
i dont do well on keto, or maybe do i have to wait more time? i was eating lots of sugars for many years, as i have also a eating disorder ( being alone at home all day and struggling with ME put me on this adicction ) , and i recently found out i do not ONLY have huge inflammation , i also have diabetes 2. I wanted to fix this but i am afraid my body dies in this try...
its keto bad for us?

"i met somebody who was a huge fan of Aajonus Vonderplanitz , the guy who spreaded the "raw primal diet"
please vegans , this could be a trigger post for you ."

Taking diet or health advice from random strangers, stuff promoted on yootoobe, Dr Oz, or all-day infomercials is probably not going to end well. You're better off changing one thing at a time and determining what works or does not for you.

Grandma's advice to eat slowly, chew your food, eat your veggies and have no random junk food snacks is always correct.
 
Messages
33
I am on WW (formerly Weight Watchers) and it has helped me lose 50 pounds (so far). It gets into what is the healthy foods and helps you understand choices. My sister is diabetic and it has helped her tremendously.

Keto is not recommended by many doctors.

However, cutting back on carbs will help with the diabetes and maybe even sluggishness.

The other recommendation I make is the "Beck Diet." It is not a diet per se, but a way of looking at eating cognitively. Like why do you make the choices you do? Having a support group.