• Welcome to Phoenix Rising!

    Created in 2008, Phoenix Rising is the largest and oldest forum dedicated to furthering the understanding of and finding treatments for complex chronic illnesses such as chronic fatigue syndrome (ME/CFS), fibromyalgia (FM), long COVID, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome (POTS), mast cell activation syndrome (MCAS), and allied diseases.

    To become a member, simply click the Register button at the top right.

STARTUP SCREENING FOR METHYLATION PROTOCOLS - trial items

Freddd

Senior Member
Messages
5,184
Location
Salt Lake City
These symptoms are attempting to allow a person to identify whether they are having a problem with low potassium or low folate or CoQ10. If you have had these responses would you please confirm which symptoms were your markers, quick and slow. If there are some symptoms left off, please identify them.

Screening startup for CoQ10, low potassium and low folate.
Version 0.9 02/13/12


CoQ10 - interaction symptoms occur within several hours of CoQ10
Low Potassium - occurs about 3 days after starting protocol or adding certain items that had been holding up healing.
Low folate -appears to take some weeks or longer
Both can occur at same time.


Symptoms - Interaction with CoQ10

Headache
Substantial rise in blood pressure, perhaps 50 points or more.


Symptoms - Low Folate

IBS Steady diarrhea f
IBS Diarrhea alternating with normal f
Stomach aches f
Uneasy digestive tract f
Increased hypersensitive responses f
Skin rashes f
Increased acne f
Skin peeling around fingernails f
Skin cracking and peeling at fingertips f
Angular Cheilitis f
Canker sores f
Coated tongue f

Runny nose f
Increased allegies f
Increased Multiple Chemical Sensitivities f
Increased asthma f
Generalized inflammation in body f
Increased Inflammation pain muscles f
Increased Inflammation pain joints f
Achy muscles f
Flu like symptoms f

Depression f
Less sociable F
Impaired planning and logic - f
Brain fog F
Low energy f
Light headedness f
Sluggishness f
Forgetfulness f
Confusin f
Difficulty walking f
Behavioral disorders f
Dementia f
Reduced sense of taste f
Increase irrability f
Loss of reflexes f

Fevers f
Old symptoms returning f
Heart palpitations f
Bleeding easily f


Symptoms - Low Folate and Low Potassium

IBS Diarrhea alternating with constipation f k fk
IBS Normal alternating with constipation fk f k
Headache f k
Increased malaise f k
Fatigue K, F


Symptoms - Low Potassium

IBS Steady constipation k
Nausea k
Vomitting k
Paralyzed Ileum k
Hard knots of muscle k
Sudden muscle spasms when relaxed k
Sudden muscle spasms when stretching k
Sudden muscle spasms when kneeling k
Sudden muscle spasms when reaching k
Sudden muscle spasms when turning upper body to side k
Tightening of muscles, neck muscles K
Muscle weakness k
Abnormal heart rhythms (dysrhythmias) K
Increased pulse rate k
Increased blood pressure k
Emotional changes, instability K
Itching k
 

Rosebud Dairy

Senior Member
Messages
167
How do we code our answers - with the f and k
small f - lesser symptom of low folate?
large F - bigger symptom of low folate?

same with K?

_________________

I may have seen some separate symptoms that may be exclusive to TOO much folic acid. This could help people figure out if folic acid is aggravating them maybe.
 

Freddd

Senior Member
Messages
5,184
Location
Salt Lake City
How do we code our answers - with the f and k
small f - lesser symptom of low folate?
large F - bigger symptom of low folate?

same with K?

_________________

I may have seen some separate symptoms that may be exclusive to TOO much folic acid. This could help people figure out if folic acid is aggravating them maybe.

Hi Rosebud,

I wasn't thinking about the marking. Quite right. F and f, K and k sound good to me, and Q for quick onset and S for slow onset sounds good too.
 

Rosebud Dairy

Senior Member
Messages
167
CODING SYSTEM
f - lesser symptom low folate
F greater symptom low folate
k- lesser symptom low potassium
K - greater symptom low potassium
XX not sure at this time
n/a - not applicable at this time

Symptoms - Interaction with CoQ10

Headache - X
Substantial rise in blood pressure, perhaps 50 points or more. XX


Symptoms - Low Folate

IBS Steady diarrhea f
IBS Diarrhea alternating with normal X
Stomach aches f
Uneasy digestive tract f
Increased hypersensitive responses f
Skin rashes XX
Increased acne f
Skin peeling around fingernails f
Skin cracking and peeling at fingertips n/a
Angular Cheilitis n/a
Canker sores XX
Coated tongue f
Joint pain - F - old injuries, SI joint feels very "stuck"

Runny nose f
Increased allegies f
Increased Multiple Chemical Sensitivities f
Increased asthma f
Generalized inflammation in body f
Increased Inflammation pain muscles f
Increased Inflammation pain joints f
Achy muscles f
Flu like symptoms f

Depression f
Less sociable F
Impaired planning and logic - f
Brain fog F
Low energy f
Light headedness f
Sluggishness f
Forgetfulness f
Confusion f
Difficulty walking f
Behavioral disorders f
Dementia f
Reduced sense of taste/smell f
Increase irrability f
Loss of reflexes f
Sinus/mucous issues f
Loss of musical skills/beat/tuning - f - returns, but slower, as with return of cognition

Fevers f
Old symptoms returning f
Heart palpitations n/a
Bleeding easily XX


Symptoms - Low Folate and Low Potassium
IBS - diarrhea - raging/unresolvable f k FK, (and a FOLIC POSITIVE SYMPTOM HERE MAYBE)
IBS Diarrhea alternating with constipation f k fk
IBS Normal alternating with constipation fk f k
Headache f k
Increased malaise f K
Fatigue K, F
coldness in fingers and toes - F (slow to return)


Symptoms - Low Potassium

IBS Steady constipation XX
Nausea k
Vomiting n/a
Paralyzed Ileum n/a
Hard knots of muscle k -- just muscle spasms - not specified - mostly trapezius muscles

Just muscle spasm in upper back mostly -
These below are not as bad

Sudden muscle spasms when relaxed n/a
Sudden muscle spasms when stretching n/a
Sudden muscle spasms when kneeling n/a
Sudden muscle spasms when reaching n/a
Sudden muscle spasms when turning upper body to side n/a
Tightening of muscles, neck muscles K also F?
Muscle weakness k
Abnormal heart rhythms (dysrhythmias) K
Increased pulse rate XX
Increased blood pressure XX
Emotional changes, instability K
Itching XX

dangerous symptoms of very low potassium
near panic attack - K (quick when low fast, as with surgery blood loss)
extreme dizziness - K
clammy - K
 

Rosebud Dairy

Senior Member
Messages
167
Time to return to current baseline after folic acid exposure -
about two weeks on acne and sinus issues
some cognition and energy returned sooner
 

hixxy

Senior Member
Messages
1,229
Location
Australia
I haven't really been following the protocol threads lately. I'm assuming there has been some development where supplementing mb12/methyfolate can induce inactive folate deficiency? Can folate be supplemented along with methylfolate from the get go or only if it drops low? I have high normal serum b12 and folate. Ie, they're not getting into the methylation cycle, so would obviously not need it right away?
 

Rosebud Dairy

Senior Member
Messages
167
Hixxy,
I would guess that it might matter what you are trying to accomplish with your B12/folate dosing.

I am working on healing neuropathy, so I am going fairly high, but for someone who needs to clear metals they might need to start of smaller, as a low glutathione/heavy metals dump could occur (MAYBE ?) on perhaps too quick a start up for some.

It really depends on your treatment goals -
healing neuropathy?
keeping a steady state?
healing from Lyme?
Clearing metals?
other neurological damage?
 
Messages
39
Location
Bay Area, CA
Rosebud, I would agree with your low potassium additions. Low potassium for me:

Slightly low, more mild symptoms:
-slight fatigue
-occasional muscle twitches
-muscle tightness
(need to take potassium here to get ahead of the curve, or else...)

Very low, more extreme symptoms:
-dizziness
-nausea
-weakness
-extreme fatigue
-feeling panicky
-increased pulse
-tremor or uncontrollable shaking
-feeling like I might pass out

For those with hypoglycemia, it is very similar (in my experience) to a sudden drop in blood sugar. I can only tell the two apart because taking 600-900mg of potassium will solve the low potassium symptoms within about 40 minutes, but I doubt they'd do anything for low blood sugar! Plus, I don't have blood sugar issues when I take my Chromium Picolinate.

The low folate symptoms seem much more insidious. I'll be sure to watch for them, or else I'm afraid I might miss them. The potassium, I feel, is more obvious and hard to ignore!

I have found that my potassium levels seem more dose dependent on the adb12 than the mb12. For instance, if I leave mb12 at 5mg but reduce adb12 to 2.5mg, I don't have low potassium episodes. But, if I decrease mb12 to 1 or 2mg and leave adb12 at 10mg, I will definitely experience low potassium episodes. Does anyone else have this experience?

I've been trying to figure out what triggers the need for potassium so can I adjust for my menstrual cycle. I have endometriosis, so I really don't want to risk low potassium during heavy blood loss. I do plan to increase my potassium during menstruation, but I'd also like to reduce the need a bit during this time since it's hard on my body.