Starting Water Fast. Would love to speak to anyone who has performed One

[Roy S]

I think her name was Dr. Acer, but I can't remember her first name at the moment. She was probably in her 70s at the time and she closed it a few years later. It was in Desert Hot Springs California; north of Palm Springs.

We were all given a quart per day of what she called "Beauty Elixir". It was a mineral mix she made that looked about the same after it went through my kidneys -- and it smelled better.

 

[Hip]

In terms of whether fasting is likely to help or hinder any infection in ME/CFS, one thing to take into account is whether autophagy — which is the catabolic processes triggered by fasting that breaks down cellular components — actually inhibits or promotes that infection.

You can see in this study that some viruses are inhibited by the action of autophagy, whereas other viruses appear to use autophagy to promote and spread the infection.

In the case of enterovirus / coxsackievirus B, a virus strongly linked to ME/CFS, this study indicates that autophagy promotes viral replication, and in fact coxsackievirus B actually has mechanisms to trigger autophagy in the body, so as to increase its replication.

Thus in the case of enterovirus coxsackievirus B, one might speculate that fasting could be counterproductive.

Having said that, my ME/CFS appears to be enterovirus-driven, and I have performed a few two-month long juice fasts, with no ill effects, and a slight improvement in symptoms during the fast.


What would be interesting would be to try to inhibit autophagy in coxsackievirus B-associated ME/CFS, as the study I cited found that inhibiting autophagy "dramatically compromised virus replication".

 

[Sea]

My father once did a juice fast (fruit and vegetable juices). After 6 weeks he had a heart attack.

 

[taniaaust1]

Ive done long term fasting of various kinds before including water fasts. Glad to hear you are aware to get back into the food slowly after a fast of a week or more. I suggest to do a day or so of juice fasting before going to light meals after a week water fast.

Its also a good time to test out if you have any food intollences if you slowly reintroduce different kinds of foods and see if you get any negative reactions.
...........

Someone here mentioned juicing. When I was juice fasting and doing my own juicing, I found that not all kinds of juices are the same. Most juices and juice mixes werent benefical to me at all while another combo I put together really was benefical .. unfortunately I forget now what was in it.. it may been beetroot, celery, apple? and a type of spice all together (wish I remember what spice) was doing something helpful .. were as more common juice mix of things like orange, lemon, pear and apple juice wasnt helpful at all.

 

[Valentijn]

Ah yes of course, I knew that, but somehow my tired brain misinterpreted "water fast" to mean giving up drinking fluids for a few days. Thanks for pointing it out.

Probably because it's usually just called a "fast". I'm not sure why someone would add "water" on to the front for describing a normal fast.

 

[lansbergen]

one thing to take into account is whether autophagy — which is the catabolic processes triggered by fasting that breaks down cellular components — actually inhibits or promotes that infection.

With the infection I suspect moderate autophagy decreases infectivity but when it is overactive infectivity increases .

 

[MCRobbie]

Uhh, that would be because so many people are doing fasts other than 'just' fasts, juice, fasts, vegetable drink fasts, broth fasts, that it now requires that you identify what kind of fast you are doing. If you just say I am doing a 'fast' many people will think you might be doing a juice or other type of fasts which aren't true fasts. I wanted to make sure people knew what type of fast I was doing so I could find others to talk to about it. Many people use the phrase 'water fast' for just this reason. That's why I used it

 

[Hip]

Probably because it's usually just called a "fast". I'm not sure why someone would add "water" on to the front for describing a normal fast.

I think people often talk about "juice fasting", which means stopping all food and nutrition except some fruit juices, and perhaps the term "water fasting" is used to contrast to that.

 

[Bansaw]

I did one because I am a Christian. But I didn't have CFS then. I caught that in Africa.
Three days is hard, but day 3-6 were absolutely great. Clear minded. felt good. After day 6 onwards was hard. But when I broke the fast (prudently I might add), I felt tremendous physically and mentally.
I don't know I would recommend fasting with CFS though?

 

[rebar]

Thanks MC, I would assume the fast is over. How about a summery, how was the experience.
I hope it went well.
I may try a 3 day, although the risk does concern me.

 

[MCRobbie]

Im on day 12 rebar and plan on going to atleast 20 and beyond depending. First two days went fine, little hunger for me, days 3,4,5 I had considerable chest pain, palpitations and racing heart primarly at night. It got pretty bad and I almost broke the fast but knew that these things are very complicated and I felt I wasn't having heart trouble per se which the conclusion most might make, but my body was struggling to adjust. I found that drinking lots of water about a quarts slowly over the course of 30 + minutes brought the palpitations and racing heart somewhat under control but it was a difficult few days. Then, it all started to settle down, and by day seven chest pain was 90% reduced as were the palpitations, racing pulse completely gone. Its been smooth sailing from there though no changes in my CFS symptoms. I have zero hunger, modest dizziness upon standing, no worse than my usual orthostatic symptoms, a little weak from the fast, but all in all its going very well. Had my electrolytes checked day seven and sodium and chloride were low and I think its because I was drinking too much water (gallon and half per day). Cut way back and getting electrolytes checked again this week. One thing I can feel the fast working on is my gut. Have a lot of gut pain and numbness down there, I think its a vagus nerve, nerve damage issue and the fast is working on it somehow. Heavily coated tongue on the fast which is typical.

 

[taniaaust1]

Probably because it's usually just called a "fast". I'm not sure why someone would add "water" on to the front for describing a normal fast.

Probably cause fast doesnt necessarily mean just having water. Some fast but have fruit juices during the fast.

 

[WillowJ]

Ah yes of course, I knew that, but somehow my tired brain misinterpreted "water fast" to mean giving up drinking fluids for a few days. Thanks for pointing it out.

Bing claims some people interpret "water fast" to mean taking nothing including water, so this is a reasonable misunderstanding.

 

[taniaaust1]

Im on day 12 rebar and plan on going to atleast 20 and beyond depending. First two days went fine, little hunger for me, days 3,4,5 I had considerable chest pain, palpitations and racing heart primarly at night. It got pretty bad and I almost broke the fast but knew that these things are very complicated and I felt I wasn't having heart trouble per se which the conclusion most might make, but my body was struggling to adjust.

Ive been into long fasting in the past as it actually did help me feel better, more alert, I felt more energetic fasting etc even after long term but I'd stop if I got those heart symptoms. Ive never had chest pain with fasting. Headache for first few days is the symptom I tend to get and nausea with hunger first couple of days... then I feel more alive and my energy improves.

I know nowdays why I was feeling healthier when I fasted even long term, it was cause I had so many food issues at that point I didnt know I had (more food intollerances then I was aware of, problems with hyperinsulinemia etc).

I found that drinking lots of water about a quarts slowly over the course of 30 + minutes brought the palpitations and racing heart somewhat under control but it was a difficult few days. Then, it all started to settle down, and by day seven chest pain was 90% reduced as were the palpitations, racing pulse completely gone. Its been smooth sailing from there though no changes in my CFS symptoms. I have zero hunger, modest dizziness upon standing, no worse than my usual orthostatic symptoms, a little weak from the fast, but all in all its going very well.

Seeing you are feeling weak at this point, I do really suggest you stop the fast. Its being too hard on your body.

You may be better off with regular short fasts to heal that stomach. eg I know a family who used to fast just one day a week and only have water on that day. Watch those electrolytes, seeing you have ME/CFS and OI you may need those. Maybe you'd be better off fasting on electrolyte solution. Maybe your chest pains were due to something going wrong with electocytes??.

Fasts can go terribly wrong and very suddenly. Take care.

 

[taniaaust1]

Bing claims some people interpret "water fast" to mean taking nothing including water, so this is a reasonable misunderstanding.

oh I can see how that thought could be made too. Language so tricky and even trickier when people from different places are involved.

 

[Valentijn]

Probably cause fast doesnt necessarily mean just having water. Some fast but have fruit juices during the fast.

But then it's a juice fast They wouldn't just call it a "fast" even if it's a type of fast.

 

[MCRobbie]

@taniaaust1, Thank you for the advice but I feel confident that the fast might be helping in some areas and I find it a bit strange that you seem so confident that a person experiencing slight weakness on day 12 of a fast should necessarily terminate the fast. Fasting experiences are extremely complex and from all my reading of hundreds of stories of fasters and fasting experts a little weakness and tiredness by day 12+ is completely normal and to be expected for most. You also say that fasting can go terribly wrong and fast. This is not the conclusion of Dr Fuhrman who has fasted a thousand people or more nor is it the conclusion of Alan Goldhamer who runs the True North FAst Center in CA and who has fasted thousands. Ive also read much of the work of Dr Herbert Shelton called the fafhter of fasting who its claimed fasted over 20, 0000 people. Its clear by reading his experience that severe complications from fasting is extremely rare. After all my research it appears there are two ways fasting can go 'wrong and fast', those being cardiovascular issues and electrolyte imablances. Do you know of anyone who has died or suffered irreversible damage due to a heart attack or other cardiovascular event while fasting or has had such a significant electrolyte imbalance leading to death or irreversible damage to the body? I think the comment that fasting can go terribly wrong is another bit of fear mongering regarding a protocol that could actually help a lot of people including CFS sufferers but the problem is people are misinformed about fasting and fear it, partly because of comments like the one you volunteered. The fasting literature suggests that fasting can help people with cardiovascular issues and autonomic issues which underly many cardiovascular issues which of course many CFS sufferers are experiencing. Are their examples of people who became terribly ill and or died from fasting? Yes but they are far and few between and often consist of individuals who were severely ill with cardiovascular disease cancer etc before starting their fast and the fast could not heal their illness and it was their underlying illness that caused their death in the end not the fast. This is not to say that someone with CFS shouldn't be monitored by a dr and shouldn't take care, but the fears of fasting even for someone with CFS are in my mind overblown.

 

[Valentijn]

You also say that fasting can go terribly wrong and fast. This is not the conclusion of Dr Fuhrman who has fasted a thousand people or more nor is it the conclusion of Alan Goldhamer who runs the True North FAst Center in CA and who has fasted thousands. Ive also read much of the work of Dr Herbert Shelton called the fafhter of fasting who its claimed fasted over 20, 0000 people. Its clear by reading his experience that severe complications from fasting is extremely rare.

How many of those subjects were very ill with a neuro-muscular-immune disorder, where they couldn't produce sufficient energy upon demand?

After all my research it appears there are two ways fasting can go 'wrong and fast', those being cardiovascular issues and electrolyte imablances.

What, like chronic potassium and/or magnesium issues? Both are pretty common in ME patients - it's where the twitching and cramping muscles come from.

At the end of the day, it's generally bad form to encourage someone to push through worsening symptoms unless there is extremely solid medical evidence backing up that advice. At the very least, it might be a good idea to encourage someone with such symptoms to see a doctor, instead of attempting to stick it out.

 

[MCRobbie]

Well again Valentijn, our illness is very complex, does this mean that because our illness is complex that no one should experiment with all kinds of different protocols that could help? How many CFS sufferers have experienced side effects from the Methylation protocols? Does this mean no one should attempt those protocols because some have suffered side effects complications? Don't we all take chances when we try any protocol or put any supplement in our bodies? By your logic none of us should try anything or decide to 'push through' any uncomfortableness or side effect when that's not whats actually happening. People are pushing through everyday with their protocols, tweaking them, experimenting and often pushing through using their own judgment. Many of us are doing exactly what you are suggesting they not do , they are 'sticking it out' using their own judgement. Should we all consult a physician to advise us everytime whether we should continue to move forward with a protocol or not? You have such great faith in physicians, most of which dont know anything about our illness. In most cases we are on our own with this illness and often know more than our doctors about it. Who is advocating pushing through in this particular case? Im pushing through a very common side effect in my own case. I am not advocating in a thread where someone else is fasting to push through in their fast am I? No Im not.

 

[MCRobbie]

@Valentijn, Someone in this thread was advocating to Me that I stop my fast, just like that, a fast which is very important to me and which I have been planning for many months, at a time when I am at a critical crossroads with my own CFS. If you feel it is bad form to tell someone to push through in a protocol (which I have not done) doesn't the same logic apply, that it may be bad form to tell someone to........Stop........a protocol when that person is making a suggestion based on so little information, and regarding a 'side effect' that many experts consider par for the course and nothing to worry about?