Staph vaccine to treat CFS??

hvac14400

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There's not a lot of new effects by this point actually.
After more than a month the effects of the vaccine has become mostly normalized.
that's probably a trend already in this topic - gettin results like a "nice try, but no cigar".
on the other hard it's hard to say if the vacc is working or not, while you're still injecting it, so am currently replacing vaccine with this shyt:





and after a month i'll compare the level of my pems with & without vacc. coz in the past few months that level didn't decreased at all, but i've progressively increased workload in the gym at the same time - not that much of coz, but nevertheless. so who knows what's going on really, especially when there is no any drastic changes of health.
 

Hip

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The effects felt an hour after injection or the next day isn't as apparent than before. While the improvement over no vaccine is clear, it mostly feels the same throughout the whole week.
When you say "the effects," are you mainly taking about the mood boost, antidepressant effects of the vaccine provides, rather than any improvements in ME/CFS symptoms?



Given that nobody yet has had any major improvements from the Medgamal alpha toxoid vaccine, my thoughts are that alpha toxoid may not be the ingredient in Staphypan that works for ME/CFS; which then points to the enterotoxin A toxoid or the enterotoxin B toxoid in Staphypan as being the next most likely candidates for the compounds that treat ME/CFS.

It would make a lot of sense that enterotoxin A or enterotoxin B effectively treats ME/CFS, since both these toxoids are immunomodulatory, and target components of the immune system that relate to autoimmunity (see this earlier post for details), and of course the rituximab studies indicate ME/CFS may well be an autoimmune disease.



The Russian dog vaccine appears to contain Staphylococcus enterotoxin A, B and C toxoids, so if this becomes available again soon, I will look into whether this is safe to use on humans.

Dr Shoemaker has used another Staphylococcus dog vaccine (Staphage Lysate) as a useful treatment for ME/CFS patients.
 
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When you say "the effects," are you mainly taking about the mood boost, antidepressant effects of the vaccine provides, rather than any improvements in ME/CFS symptoms?
For me, the improvement on Pem and fatigue is clear here. Clearly not a total cure but clearly some effects.

It would make a lot of sense that enterotoxin A or enterotoxin B effectively treats ME/CFS, since both these toxoids are immunomodulatory, and target components of the immune system that relate to autoimmunity (see this earlier post for details), and of course the rituximab studies indicate ME/CFS may well be an autoimmune disease.
Makes sense to me too.

The Russian dog vaccine appears to contain Staphylococcus enterotoxin A, B and C toxoids, so if this becomes available again soon, I will look into whether this is safe to use on humans.

Dr Shoemaker has used another Staphylococcus dog vaccine (Staphage Lysate) as a useful treatment for ME/CFS patients.
On the other hand, I did find a chinese Staphylococcus rabbit vaccine. It says that it is an Inactivated vaccine and uses Propolis as a adjuvant. Everything about it is in chinese and I did not find anything other than usage instructions.
 
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hvac14400

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that pink stuff looks yammy :lol:

afaik dog's shit stuff is less purified than human's, so it can cause much more/severe allergic/immune reactions for example, that's the catch. atleast one of them :whistle:
 
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Yea, I might actually be with @hvac14400 on this one. I would usually be down for anything but stuff meant for animals coming from China just scares me. I feel like their human food is questionable already.
 

Ninan

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I just took 1/20 ml of the unabsorbed version two hours ago. Noticing a slight boost in mood and energy. I have a theory it's just cortisol though, since infection seems to raise cortisol in me, which boosts both mood and energy. Guess I'll know sooner or later since my adrenals are very fatigued (and I hope I'm wrong). No rash yet but noticed some itching which I believe is due to the vaccine containing some histamine (I have issues with histamine intolerance).
 

hvac14400

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I have a theory it's just cortisol though, since infection seems to raise cortisol in me, which boosts both mood and energy.
but cortisol suppresses immune response, so when you infected you didn't want to raise it? you want higher cortisol if there are some inflamation, not infection, isn't it?
 

Hip

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but cortisol suppresses immune response, so when you infected you didn't want to raise it? you want higher cortisol if there are some inflamation, not infection, isn't it?
Cortisol suppresses the immune response, but it is the immune response (eg autoimmune attack or brain inflammation) that may be causing the neuropsychological symptoms, so this is why cortisol or corticosteroids can ameliorate ME/CFS symptoms in the short term. But if you take high doses of corticosteroids for several months, you may end becoming worse, because then the infection may slowly grow larger.

Some ME/CFS patients do improve with long term low dose hydrocortisone, though, (10 to 30 mg) daily.

I am not aware of any mechanism by which alpha toxin (aka alpha hemolysin) could raise cortisol, however.
 
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Ninan

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Yes, cortisol supresses immunity. But it also gives the body more energy which at least in me (since my immunity goes down completely when I crash now) enhances immunity.

Infection raises cortisol so to me it makes sense that the vaccine could do the same. I don't think the energy effect from cortisol is lowered immunity. I keeps my infections in place and feels more like any energy supplement.

This is what happens in me: My immunity goes down when I crash. Then infection (candida etc) gets worse. Which triggers cortisol --> much more energy. I bounce up again and my immune system fights the bugs. (Which lowers cortisol and round we go...) I've been living on high cortisol for months now, didn't understand it in the beginning. But it's obvious now, even getting thinning arms, legs and losing hair. And adrenal issues, which I haven't had before, even though my cortisol was low.

If the vaccine does something else then there are at least two different mechanisms through which infection (vaccine or normal) gives the exact same effect in me. The effect from the vaccine seems to be the same as the one I get when I "bounce up", i e when cortisol increases. It just seems more reasonable to assume there's only one.

My theory is that this is what happens when we feel better from infections, and with the vaccine. A lot of us have low cortisol, not due to adrenal fatigue but poor signaling. If the vaccine raises cortisol to low/low normal levels maybe that could make us feel better for a long time without stressing adrenals. I know Gottfries et al saw Changes in immunity but that doesn't mean that's the triggering factor that gives energy.

I'd love to be wrong though.
 
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Hip

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One interesting thing that alpha toxin does do is impair the myelin sheath on the vagus nerve (at least in rabbits), and presumably on other myelinated peripheral nerves as well. Ref: 1

I am not sure if the toxoid version can also do this, but if there were some temporary impairment of vagus nerve signal transmission after injecting the alpha toxoid vaccine due to myelin sheath disruption, it's highly speculative, but this might perhaps explain the temporary mood boost, if we assume the sickness behavior model of ME/CFS (whereby signals transmitted along the vagus nerve cause sickness behavior symptoms such as depression, fatigue, brain fog, etc).
 

Hugo

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Interesting thread, I know about the treatment and the study, they used it in Gottfries, Gothenburg Sweden. The reason it stopped I think you mentioned earlier in the thread. It was very succesfull for some people with severe CFS.

Is there something happening in this field? Any studies or new vaccines? The old one had some properties that the drug administration didnt allowed.

Low dose hydrocortison is also interesting I read som success stories on that one and since I have a lot of pain that one is intersting.
 

Hip

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@johmil
We are testing a Russian Staphylococcus toxoid vaccine in this thread that it is believed may have similar efficacy to the original Staphypan.
 

Hip

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Aha, very interesting. I will read the thread more then.
It is a bit of a long thread, but you can see the Russian Staphylococcus toxoid vaccine (manufactured by Medgamal) we are using in this post, and you can now easily buy it online from rupharma.com. Results so far suggest it may not be as effective or as strong as the original Staphypan.

Staphypan actually contained a number of toxoids (listed in this post), each of which may have had beneficial effects for ME/CFS; whereas the Russian vaccine only contains alpha toxin toxoid.
 

Hugo

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Aha, didnt know that then I guess its hard to know if its the combination of the toxoids or one of the toxoid that helps CFS. Atleast according to your test the first conclusion would be that alpha toxin alone is not working (well aware that this is not a clinical trial but still it may say something).

Is there any other Staphylococcus toxoid vaccine out there, maybe with more toxoids?
 

hvac14400

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And adrenal issues, which I haven't had before, even though my cortisol was low.
...
My theory is
...
I'd love to be wrong though.
why not just test it? it's easy as F - morning blood cortisol level and daily urine average level. why is there any theorizing at all? no need for that.
or you can take any synthetic cortisol analog in pill form and see what it would feels like - very fast and cheap way to test it too.

my morning cortisol is always slightly above upper limit and my daily average is 1.5-2.5 times higher than upper limit, which is sux.