Spirituality your stories ....

Rufous McKinney

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14,015
Rituals can be helpful. I got into doing some of those. Long ago, with some others, but recently, mostly its just me.

So I asked for help. With this illness, we need support. And asking is actually a method!

Alot of interesting things happened. Those things keep me going. Because I know this is not the whole story. Not at all.....
 

Inca

Senior Member
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464
Mine are unusual! I never really understood when younger about praying to a complete stranger guy who lived hundreds of years ago...but after my mum died and because we were very close as she'd been my carer and teacher for longer than most parents are for non-autistic teens and young adults I really felt it.

I thought very literally back then so because she told me about stuff about reincarnation and that she'd always be with me (in spirit form) and I just had to talk to her I always have done.

Years after getting on internet I quite by chance discovered a group of people who 'created Tulpas' (originate from Tibetan Buddhist religion) ..basically imaginary friends that became sentient...with my highly literal mind I instantly saw it as a way to give my mum's spirit an 'inner body' and place to live (they call it wonderland') for me to imagine adventures together when I can't do much else.

My imagination tends to be a copy of something else I've seen though so my inner world is places we've visited or favourite film/TV locations our own house back in the 70's/80's etc. Although we aren't adults in our wonderland, we're teenage twins and I call her by her childhood nickname (rather than mum!).

I started doing yoga and meditation as well when I got less mobile although sometimes even that's too exhausting these days, I do think I've become more spiritual as I've got older, probably because it's been easier for me to research it with unlimited online access to literature on it from around the world. I think I understand more abstract stuff than I was previously able to through probably still behind what's 'normal' for a person my age and I was much older than most before I even reached an age I could understand stuff like that.
 

Rufous McKinney

Senior Member
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14,015
My imagination tends to be a copy of something else I've seen though so my inner world is places we've visited or favourite film/TV locations our own house back in the 70's/80's etc. Although we aren't adults in our wonderland, we're teenage twins and I call her by her childhood nickname (rather than mum!).

very fascinating...how you've managed to do this! Thats a powerful tale.

I had a dream a while back, that I remembered for inexplicable reasons. Particularly vivid, odd, and also magical.

I just go there in my mind, rather often. To relax, or to imagine I will run into my Dogs. I believe the dogs are frocking there, all the time. And the people I love, who are not here, well, they are in the nearby forest. Just "over there"....

In the dream:

Foxes were sleeping on boulders. Flocks of bald eagles occupied a big oak tree. Bears and lions were all around us, as I "let my husband drive the car"...(we are in a car, driving on a Ridgeline with vistas, on a dirt road, with all these creatures surrounding us.

And not surprisingly, this dream place is similar to a real place I once visited, not too far from here, a huge ranch. and a fox was there, sleeping on a boulder. The place was so remote, this fox did not know it should be concerned or afraid of a bunch of humans who showed up.

If felt like heaven on earth, to be there in this place. So the dream seemed like pure Heaven, too.
 

Inca

Senior Member
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464
Imagination can be a powerful thing! The twin thing I'd got the idea from finding a photo of my mum at 15 years old...when I put a photo of myself at that age next to it (and made it B&W) of course we looked identical in the face. I knew her childhood nickname as I'd found an old school report of hers and a little autograph book her friends and teachers had signed when she'd left school in the 50's.

I tend to use a shortened version of her nickname as mine on forums (Kit) but I usually wait until see whether other people on the forums are using their names or using more random sounding names first.

'Inca' was my last dog who passed away many years ago now.
 

Rufous McKinney

Senior Member
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14,015
'Inca' was my last dog who passed away many years ago now.

our dogs- we love them so much, and they are by definition- going to leave sooner than we wish. Inca is a great name! We had a Tobias MeatHound the III; Randy Weather (a real problem)'; Alphonse (her son, by a wolf male) and Bodhisattva.

I knew her childhood nickname as I'd found an old school report of hers and a little autograph book her friends

there is something ...really special...about Nick Names.

I always wanted to have one, and never did, really. But later in my life, it did sort of happen.

Rufous is a nick name. Arose due to the red hair.......spelling variable.
 

Emmarose47

Senior Member
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2,127
Location
UK
Imagination can be a powerful thing! The twin thing I'd got the idea from finding a photo of my mum at 15 years old...when I put a photo of myself at that age next to it (and made it B&W) of course we looked identical in the face. I knew her childhood nickname as I'd found an old school report of hers and a little autograph book her friends and teachers had signed when she'd left school in the 50's.

I tend to use a shortened version of her nickname as mine on forums (Kit) but I usually wait until see whether other people on the forums are using their names or using more random sounding names first.

'Inca' was my last dog who passed away many years ago now.
Such a lovely thing to do Inca with you and your mum ..
It's incredible how stricking family resembelence can be .
I Adore old photos ....
 

Wayne

Senior Member
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Ashland, Oregon
I Adore old photos ....

Hi @Emmarose47 -- I heard many years ago that if you take a mirror and put the edge of it right down the middle of the face on a picture, you will see a whole face being reflected back. But the whole face is actually only a reflection of one side of the face (I hope that makes sense).

Though each side of our face looks almost identical to us, there's actually almost always subtle differences. And when you do the above "trick", vuella, you'll actually see family resemblences you've never noticed before. Since you adore old photos, you might just have some fun with this little trick.
 

Emmarose47

Senior Member
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Location
UK
Hi Wayne
Oh that's v interesting ...
I have a very unsymmetrical face like my mother so could be interesting ...

I really love old photos of places and how people lived esp in poverty ...
It really puts into perspective what so many of us have today .
I have an incredible and huge book called ' lost England 1800s to early 1900s
 

Nacht_Segler

The Klabautermann
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Hi I'd love to hear if spirituality has increased for you since having m.e CFS ...
How it helps give strength ...purpose ...
Freedom ..

Happy to share mine but off to bed now ..

I don't know about increase so much as there is the potential for something beyond "just getting infected", with regards to this body.

While this site I came across last year doesn't specifically mention soul replacement, there is quite a bit in it that is very relevant to the body's experience.

http://www.northernshamanism.org/dead-men-walking-shaman-sickness.html

The site is more from a pagan perspective than the perspective that I originally started my path out with, which was more "new age" and "wellness" oriented.

Regardless, there was quite a bit that resonated with regards to what the body has gone through.

This is the only site I am aware of that specifically deals with the subject of replacement reincarnation -

https://psi-encyclopedia.spr.ac.uk/articles/replacement-reincarnation
 
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I wonder if anyone has heard of Eckhart Tolle's teachings and his meditations? I find this author great and full of wisdom. According to him, the human mind causes lots of misery and can be very destructive, although it can also be a useful instrument.
He also talks about Presence and how to get more energy and be more alive when connecting to your inner presence.
He talks about Presence in this video:
I wonder, what if constant negative thinking, lots of negative feelings, and being stuck in the mind causes great fatigue?
The opposite of feeling fatigued is feeling alive and energized. I know there are many causes for fatigue, especially for chronic fatigue, but what if we could increase our energy through different spiritual practices by reducing the impact of the negativity caused by the incessant thoughts of our minds in our lives?
I think we are too consumed with our life situations and we waste lots of energy and then become disappointed and tired of life.
According to Buddhism, there is something beyond our normal 'consciousness', our ego, our life story, something unborn and eternal. They call it 'annatta', or non-Self.
Those who attach themselves to their ego, suffer because they are stuck with their life story. Being stuck means always carrying a burden, which could in the end also cause fatigue.
Those who become aware even to a small degree that liberation is possible by detaching and leaving behind the ego, and cultivating silence, wisdom and peace , can experience a better and more fulfilling life.
As one Buddhist monk once said: The essence of Buddhism is 'no self, no problems'.
I think this is very deep.
 

pamojja

Senior Member
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Austria
I wonder, what if constant negative thinking, lots of negative feelings, and being stuck in the mind causes great fatigue?

According to tradition, every act of body, speech - and so also mind - does cause repercussions, but mostly in a rather distant future, when necessary co-conditions come to fruition too. Kamma, as it is called in Pali (= acts and effects).

The western concept of 'positive thinking' on the other hand differs, in that it proposes nearby fruition. Which on the opposite doesn't consider the possibility of the near present already predetermined by, in part, a very distant past.

Co-conditions already present, it does work very well for some. And therefore give them the premature impression, it might help everyone in the same immediate way, As proposed in some self-help books. But usually it doesn't, due to the lack of co-factors from the past.

Buddhist teaching is amongst many things understanding that everything changes and that staying calm until it does is beneficial.

There is however this immediate effect of wholesome ideation, that it does increase resilience in the face of overly challenging experiences. With rather instantaneous effects starting in the nervous system.

Since this thread is about our own stories, here is mine when starting vipassana meditation 30 years ago:

From overall strong and healthy (during a rucksack world travel), within month I suffered palmo-pustular psoriasis, where both my feet soles blistered and festered for in total 8 months. Placing me in the horizontal that long. Gladly in a spiritual place like Dharamshala, I got ayurvedic, homeopathic and Tibetan medicine support (even by Yeshi Dhonden, the former personal physician of the Dalai Lama). Which, just as a 10-day course of antibiotics, didn't bring lasting relieve.

I persisted with in total 1 and half year of whole-day vipassana practice retreats, which culminated about 4 years later in a further 8 months horizontal placement, now due to a very painful spondilodiscitis. Gladly again in a place as Bodhgaya, with much peer support too.

However, the above described immediate nervous system effect already with the first incidence in effect, cheering up my medical peer support was somehow perplexing to me, when they sometimes lost hope (not verbally, but in desperate facial expressions) with my intractable case. - 'This, too, will pass.'

He also talks about Presence and how to get more energy and be more alive when connecting to your inner presence.

So yes - and no. Increasing presence and energy can give you also the precondition of being able to better cope with terrible stuff from the past, which thereby seems to come up easier. At least in my case, with 2 bed-binding 8-months lasting diseases

I made even the funny experience of 2 distinct effects of the 2 distinct meditation methods taught in vipassana retreats, one-pointedness and mindfulness (samadha and satipatthana). During the incident in Dharamshala, festering decreased with the former, but always increased greatly with the latter.

there is something beyond our normal 'consciousness', our ego, our life story, something unborn and eternal. They call it 'annatta', or non-Self.

To nitpick ;), since all our constituent parts (body, feeling, thought, intentions and consciousnesses) exist out of 'non-self' elements and co-factors, it is not 'beyond' at all. But right here in this body, thoughts, feelings, intention and consciousnesses. 'Anatta', by the way.

As one Buddhist monk once said: The essence of Buddhism is 'no self, no problems'.
I think this is very deep.

The most perplexing about 'non-self', I found, was not that selves always cease with inherent impermanence, But that one never even existed as one always thought, one would. With attachment to projections, this is a terrifying experience. The 'no problem' part only surfaces with mean challenges later.

I might have really failed. o_O Because with further chronic degenerative diseases starting only 16 years ago, I've got to know another part in me, unknown before, in that I fought for my health, as if my life depends on it (=attachment). With natural means and persistence I actually did experience remissions of PAD, COPD and post-exertional malaise.

However... attachment = non-self = no problem.

But none can it explain it better, than https://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/kn/ud/ud.1.10.than.html

"Then, Bāhiya, you should train yourself thus: In reference to the seen, there will be only the seen. In reference to the heard, only the heard. In reference to the sensed, only the sensed. In reference to the cognized, only the cognized. That is how you should train yourself. When for you there will be only the seen in reference to the seen, only the heard in reference to the heard, only the sensed in reference to the sensed, only the cognized in reference to the cognized, then, Bāhiya, there is no you in connection with that. When there is no you in connection with that, there is no you there. When there is no you there, you are neither here nor yonder nor between the two. This, just this, is the end of stress."

Though Bāhiya seems to have experienced similar complications after starting mindfulness practice, as me to a much lesser extent,

Now, not long after the Blessed One's departure, Bāhiya was attacked & killed by a cow with a young calf.

The big lesson learned and embodied: Never push self-help methods (or religion) on others in need, if they don't search it out themselves. Some may not be ready for also tire consequences, at times.
 
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Wayne

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Ashland, Oregon
According to tradition, every act of body, speech - and so also mind - does cause repercussions, but mostly in a rather distant future
Hi @pamojja -- My understanding is that for long periods of time (lifetimes perhaps), repercussions do often come back in the "rather distant future". But as we unfold spiritually, this timeframe shortens. Repercussions that previously might have taken lifetimes or years to return to us can begin to take only years, months, days, and even "moments", as in almost "instant karma".

This is in fact a good sign, in that our overall awareness and beingness just doesn't tolerate building up long-term karmic patterns again. Ironically (perhaps), this can also sometimes explain why when someone decides to take steps toward self-improvement or spiritual unfoldment, this can begin to release old karmic patterns and cause a certain amount of upheaval in their lives.

The big lesson learned and embodied: Never push self-help methods (or religion) on others in need

I totally, totally agree with you on this very important point. In that spirit, I'll mention very, very briefly... that the spiritual path I'm on describes how spiritual masters (spiritual assistants perhaps) aid people who decide they want to start unwinding some of their karmic patterns.

They help in a number of ways from the inner planes, with some of that help coming in the dream state. There certain conditions can be worked out without having them manifest physically, saving a lot of wear and tear on the physical body. Quite a claim, that one should take with a grain of salt until they've done their own spiritual homework of course.
 

pamojja

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Austria
when someone decides to take steps toward self-improvement or spiritual unfoldment, this can begin to release old karmic patterns and cause a certain amount of upheaval in their lives.
Exactly, that - with initially unknown preconditions - can happen.

What made me upset about the particular vipassana retreat tradition, I started with, was, that I got to know 3 first time retreat participants already during my first year of practice, who relieved painful trauma, became psychotic, or made suicide attempts right after their first course. Sadly all what changed was, that this organization put up a disclaimer denying their responsibility. Interestingly, such bad-effects I never encountered with participants, who came well through their first retreat.

I investigated some of the reasons why this could happen, and how it could be avoided. But would be too far off-topic in this thread. In short, I got kicked out from this organization 10 years later, for my various constructive criticism, and proposed easy to implement changes, to avoid such tragedies.
without having them manifest physically, saving a lot of wear and tear on the physical body. Quite a claim, that one should take with a grain of salt
Just maybe for your 'literature' curiosity.

Old Pali text point out, that all the old Kamma could never be cleared away. It would be just far too much in store, to still potentially not become manifested at much later times. All what can be done for laypeople, is to heavily invest in wholesome Kamma. And for meditating monks - beside enduring Kamma from the past with equanimity - additionally not to create any new (with detachment with the aid of ongoing present awareness of impermanence, unsatisfactoriness and non-self).

To illustrate, during the night of his awakening, the Buddha allegedly remembered 30-something cycles of world expansion and contraction (the Big Bang Theory would only point to one expansion) without seeing a beginning to those cycles. In this appealingly beginningless Cosmology, past Kamma amounts to infinite. Or in other poetry words: 'the countless time we've been slaughtered in the past would amount to a heap of bones greater than the Himalaya, blood sheet would overflow the oceans.'...

That's why traditional Buddhist would prefer to quit these cycles of eternities. Heaven, though a legitimate goal for Buddhist lay-persons too, from another perspective: virtually all beings are re-becoming there anyway, after each world cycle. This too being impermanent (after unimaginable longer times), heaps of very old unwholesome kamma kick-starts all beings down to grosser planes at various degrees again. From that other perspective, these endless cycles of bliss and terror, is to get rid of.

For which the human realm is perfect for. In higher planes of existence there is just too much enjoyment, in lower planes too much pain and little opportunity for wholesome kamma. So either higher or lower planes cease by just exhausting their initial kammic momentum, having caused them. When exhausted, much older kammic forces overtake again.

This is just a possible perspective. Which isn't meant to devalue any of the other perspectives on those matters. On the contrary, I would want to express my appreciation for every spiritual or even agnostic perspective and exchange.
 
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Inca

Senior Member
Messages
464
I discovered Buddhism by coming across a description of what 'Tulpa' are online in some group. I found it very interesting and its something I can do whilst laid in bed with eyes closed no need to focus on TV or anything external if have no energy.

I've always had a vivid imagination and imaginery friends as a child so I found it really easy to create a 'Wonderland' and some Tulpa friends to help me cope with my life.

It's not like I'm missing out on work and/or family life as I spend all my time alone anyway..only me and the dog. I always make sure he gets his needs but its certainly made 'rest periods' less boring and helps time pass!

Edited to add: sorry I completely forgot I'd already answered this one a while back!
 
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Messages
6
Exactly, that - with initially unknown preconditions - can happen.

What made me upset about the particular vipassana retreat tradition, I started with, was, that I got to know 3 first time retreat participants already during my first year of practice, who relieved painful trauma, became psychotic, or made suicide attempts right after their first course. Sadly all what changed was, that this organization put up a disclaimer denying their responsibility. Interestingly, such bad-effects I never encountered with participants, who came well through their first retreat.

I investigated some of the reasons why this could happen, and how it could be avoided. But would be too far off-topic in this thread. In short, I got kicked out from this organization 10 years later, for my various constructive criticism, and proposed easy to implement changes, to avoid such tragedies.

Just maybe for your 'literature' curiosity.

Old Pali text point out, that all the old Kamma could never be cleared away. It would be just far too much in store, to still potentially not become manifested at much later times. All what can be done for laypeople, is to heavily invest in wholesome Kamma. And for meditating monks - beside enduring Kamma from the past with equanimity - additionally not to create any new (with detachment with the aid of ongoing present awareness of impermanence, unsatisfactoriness and non-self).

To illustrate, during the night of his awakening, the Buddha allegedly remembered 30-something cycles of world expansion and contraction (the Big Bang Theory would only point to one expansion) without seeing a beginning to those cycles. In this appealingly beginningless Cosmology, past Kamma amounts to infinite. Or in other poetry words: 'the countless time we've been slaughtered in the past would amount to a heap of bones greater than the Himalaya, blood sheet would overflow the oceans.'...

That's why traditional Buddhist would prefer to quit these cycles of eternities. Heaven, though a legitimate goal for Buddhist lay-persons too, from another perspective: virtually all beings are re-becoming there anyway, after each world cycle. This too being impermanent (after unimaginable longer times), heaps of very old unwholesome kamma kick-starts all beings down to grosser planes at various degrees again. From that other perspective, these endless cycles of bliss and terror, is to get rid of.

For which the human realm is perfect for. In higher planes of existence there is just too much enjoyment, in lower planes too much pain and little opportunity for wholesome kamma. So either higher or lower planes cease by just exhausting their initial kammic momentum, having caused them. When exhausted, much older kammic forces overtake again.

This is just a possible perspective. Which isn't meant to devalue any of the other perspectives on those matters. On the contrary, I would want to express my appreciation for every spiritual or even agnostic perspective and exchange.
I am sorry about your experience with the vipassana retreat and especially feel sorry about those people who became psychotic. I have investigated a little why this happens, and in my opinion, many people are not ready to practice some types of Buddhist meditation. You did well to criticize and withdraw from that organization. Unfortunately, there are many 'Eastern cults' who come in the West and prey on the ignorance of many people.
Saying this, can you explain my a little further what vipassana meditation consists of? I cannot recall right now. If I remember correctly, it consists of focusing on a object, 'emptying' your mind and attaining samadhi.

I practice a more natural type of meditation, inspired from Eckhart Tolle's teachings. I find it safe and liberating.
I also had my own journey in the past with trying harmful spiritual techniques, but I grew wiser and more careful as time passed.
I am not Buddhist though. I am not affiliated with any religion. I find Buddhism somehow extreme. I mean the never ending cycles of Heavens, Hells and intermediary realms sounds somehow devoid of meaning to me. I believe that even Nibbana or Nirvana, shouldn't be the ultimate goal. If it was so, what would be the purpose of creation and God?
Christians believe that God and this earthly life is full of meaning, as it can be seen in NDEs.
I believe Christianity is needed for meaning, love, purpose, connection to God. It also explains the mystery of suffering through the symbol of the cross.
And Buddha's teachings are also needed, because people simply suffer too much (sometimes tremendously) because of their own minds, or rather saying untamed minds, always living in their minds that keep creating samsara.
 
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I discovered Buddhism by coming across a description of what 'Tulpa' are online in some group. I found it very interesting and its something I can do whilst laid in bed with eyes closed no need to focus on TV or anything external if have no energy.

I've always had a vivid imagination and imaginery friends as a child so I found it really easy to create a 'Wonderland' and some Tulpa friends to help me cope with my life.

It's not like I'm missing out on work and/or family life as I spend all my time alone anyway..only me and the dog. I always make sure he gets his needs but its certainly made 'rest periods' less boring and helps time pass!

Edited to add: sorry I completely forgot I'd already answered this one a while back!
I am sorry you experience so much loneliness. I can understand that. But please, be careful with 'Tulpas' or 'imaginary friends' because you can attract some really nasty negative entities that at first, can pose as friends, and then can create serious trouble.
Perhaps, could you find connection in a different way? There is genuine spirituality. I noticed that people also feel lonely because they are not even connected to themselves. There are genuine, safe and grounding meditations to connect to yourself more and feel better and more alive in your own body.
And as Christians say, you can have connection with God through strong and heart-felt prayer and feel His presence in your own life. I recommend reading Sundar Singh' books: At the Master's feet (his conversations with Jesus) and Visions of the spiritual world.

By the way, I also have a loving and small dog, Daisy, my own companion in my lonely journey. Interesting enough, although I am quite alone, I don't feel lonely most of the time.
I wish you love, connection and peace.
 
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