Speaking of the desert...who here has went there and how long did you stay for before improving?

How long did you stay in the desert for before you started noticing improvements?

  • Overnight

    Votes: 1 7.7%
  • A weekend/two days

    Votes: 1 7.7%
  • Last than a week

    Votes: 3 23.1%
  • One week

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Somewhere vaguely in between 1-2 weeks

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • 2 weeks

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • I didn't have any improvements while in the desert. :(

    Votes: 5 38.5%
  • Other: please explain in thread!

    Votes: 3 23.1%

  • Total voters
    13

CSMLSM

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In my opinion dry air versus wet air doesn't matter. Its wilderness and isolated areas , that are best. Even rural areas with deforestation or agriculture are often ruined. True wilderness without agriculture or development is often found in mountains and desert , but doesn't have to be desert. west Virginia is great for example , and have heard good things about the Italian alps. Sea air I bet can be pretty good
Are you particularly sensitive to airborne substances (are you MCS), maybe why experience is different. Wilderness and isolated away from chemicals/substances.
When I was very sensitive to chemicals I did not notice the humidity as an issue. As I got better it became more noticable. it became a bigger thing to notice once other stressful stimuli were gone that were more distracting.

Daniel
 

Mouse girl

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I think it depends on the person, i'm very sensitive to mold so i do notice a different with humid areas vs dry. also might depend on how much pain you have too, or other things we dont' know about. many people with various illness do better in dry climates, like those with rhuemo conditions.
 

CSMLSM

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I think it depends on the person, i'm very sensitive to mold so i do notice a different with humid areas vs dry. also might depend on how much pain you have too, or other things we dont' know about. many people with various illness do better in dry climates, like those with rhuemo conditions.
We are all sharing our version of symptoms caused by the same dysfunctions in our immune systems, affecting the PVN of the hypothalamus.

I have had this so long now that I read many peoples things and can relate at some point in all of that to almost any of you its crazy how dynamic this condition can be.

Daniel
 
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I think it depends on the person, i'm very sensitive to mold so i do notice a different with humid areas vs dry. also might depend on how much pain you have too, or other things we dont' know about. many people with various illness do better in dry climates, like those with rhuemo conditions.
I am sensitive to mold too, but this is complex, the types of molds that are the worst for people are mixed with nanoparticles and toxins from civilization, there are molds in desert soil too, the differences are often about the overall biome and absences of toxins. I think the mountain west and desert has less pesticides and civilization. Just saying. Places like the UK sadly are pretty dense and industrialized and deforested which is bad combined with dampness, but I dont think humidity is the only problem.

I think the thing is for the most part we're all educated guessing here. I sayim mold sensitive but I really call it "agent x" bc it's a variable I dont know that affects me badly.

Anyway, a lot of reports of the Caribbean being great, but lots of florida is awful bc not just the humidity but the environment being destroyed there. And then lots of dry areas like tucson being pretty bad for people's health.

I wish we could just study this and find the environmental agents responsible
 
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I think it depends on the person, i'm very sensitive to mold so i do notice a different with humid areas vs dry. also might depend on how much pain you have too, or other things we dont' know about. many people with various illness do better in dry climates, like those with rhuemo conditions.
I believe the whole "go west young man" thing for rheumatism wasnt just about dry air but purer air bc the west hadn't been developed and colonized as much. Most of the west and desert is better for me too, but that's not bc its dry. I do great in west virginia where it's almost like temperate rainforest
 

CSMLSM

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we are
I believe the whole "go west young man" thing for rheumatism wasnt just about dry air but purer air bc the west hadn't been developed and colonized as much. Most of the west and desert is better for me too, but that's not bc its dry. I do great in west virginia where it's almost like temperate rainforest
We are all affected by the same kind of neuro/immune/endocrine dysfunction but we all dynamically become over sensitised in our own unique was as this is caused by a chaotic PVN.

My thread covering it.
Members Only Cort Johson`s blog post about ME/CFS/FIBRO May 27, 2020. This!

Daniel
 
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I'm not necessarily sensitive to all chemicals like with mcs. Mold combines with nanoparticles and various chemicals to become more virulent and form "supertoxins" . It does this in dry or wet areas. I'm sensitive to these toxins, but people without me/cfs are also made worse by these, we are just the canaries and are *more* sensitive. But they are still affected. I notice many family and friends who dont think they have this issue report spontaneous improvements in mood or energy and it happens in places with great air. and vice versa
 
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We need to take into account the outdoor and indoor microbiomes, and how they are affected by deforestation, by chemicals, by agriculture etc. Biome diversity is important for health, and not just the microbiome inside us, the one outside. This affects everyone, not just people with these chronic illnesses . Also, we need to take into account how nanoparticles can combine with mold toxins to become more virulent
 
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But, um, I want to get back to your story because your story's not over in this portion. We're still where you're explaining silver city and city of rocks and Southern New Mexico.

[01:24:22] And you're, I think, sleeping in your car and mostly car camping, um, at this point. Right?

[01:24:28] Jacob: [01:24:28] Exactly. Yeah. And no, I was, I was still looking around and I was still learning to perceive, like what felt good, what didn't feel so good. And I really feel like that, like also during this whole time I was still skeptical.

[01:24:49] Like I was still like, ah, you know, is this real? Am I actually affected by this? But I was, I would get places and I would feel so good that I was like, okay, you know what? There's something to this. And it's, and it's like profound, profoundly good. Like, wow. I haven't felt this way since I was a little kid kind of thing.

[01:25:07] Walker: [01:25:07] Um, yeah, yeah, yeah. Again, playful and happy. I mean, yeah.

[01:25:12]Jacob: [01:25:12] Yeah, exactly. And, uh, it was definitely not easy, but, uh, throughout that period of time, I was becoming less skeptical and also learning, okay, this place is good. This place is not good. My brain likes this here, but my body doesn't like it. So I think it was, especially a lot of just kind of listening, learning how to listen to my body and eventually, um, eventually ending up, uh, settling in New Mexico, um, into house right into at first. Yeah, exactly. Yeah.

[01:25:53] Walker: [01:25:53] You've been through a couple of different places, but you've, you found a housing situation and has, um Hm.

[01:26:01] Jacob: [01:26:01] That was clean. There was no mold...

[01:26:04] Walker: [01:26:04] and you were working and that it like, so you had put working before. I imagine even like with some level of healing, it wasn't easy to do that, but kind of says something that you were able to go back to work. And also that, you know, you're making this work with while still like, you know, trying to stay in clean air as much as possible.

[01:26:33] Jacob: [01:26:33] Yeah, exactly. Exactly. Unfortunately, the place I worked was was, uh, uh, it was making me, it was, it was pretty gnarly environment, but, um,

[01:26:46] Walker: [01:26:46] in terms of toxins?

[01:26:47]Jacob: [01:26:47] In terms of, I think mold, I mean, you could even smell it in, in the kitchen where I was, but, uh, you are correct about that, Walker. Yeah.

[01:26:57] Walker: [01:26:57] But you balance that, talk about how you balance that because people call it "balancing the books" in the mold avoidance community if you have to spend time in a place that's bad.

[01:27:06] Jacob: [01:27:06] So if you have to spend time in a place that's bad, uh, balancing the books would be, um, I mean, it was quite literally for me, it was just going after work to walk by, uh, the Rio Grande river runs through Taos and it's, uh, really nice over there. So I'd walk there and feel amazing, or even just walk through some parks in town pretty much every day after working.

[01:27:39] And that would help balance the books without a doubt. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:27:44] Walker: [01:27:44] Yeah. And if I just, if I may say this, like we've been talking a lot about toxins. I also want to talk a little bit about the beauty of the Southwest has, um, yeah. ...place. It's terrific. It's huge. There's a huge Mesa. It's, it's very, very beautiful.

[01:28:04] Uh, we love, we love our Mesas folks, but seriously, um, Taos, um, uh, when we're talking at the Taos we're talking like the area of town, there's a number of unincorporated communities in Taos County. I mean, there's the town, but I think where you were working was actually on the Mesa and then there's the Rio Grande Gorge bridge.

[01:28:27] And, um, uh, just this huge Mesa West and Northwest of town that, um, there are a number of communities on, but there's also people living off grid a lot. It's famous for off grid living because of some zoning particularities. But, um, the Rio Grande Gorge is just this huge rift that's like, um, I think sort of like related, like it's not the continental divide in that it's not the Rockies it's called the continental rift or something.

[01:28:57] I may be wrong. It's a huge rift in the middle of New Mexico and in Taos it's so dramatic. And so sublime, like you stand on the Gorge bridge, it is one of the highest, um, Gorge bridges in the world. And, um, or in America, at least I know the new river bridge in West Virginia, an area in looking after avoidance possibly is higher, but the Taos one is very high.

[01:29:25] Um, and. It's in a way, even though I've been to the Grand Canyon and I'm there for avoidance reasons. Um, but also it's cool place in a way that Taos Gorge, um, is almost more dramatic because it's, it's on a scale where it's like a smaller scale. So it's a little bit more, it's less like your brain just gets overloaded by the size.

[01:29:50] It's like, um, it is very big, but it's also a scale that you can comprehend. And it's just this huge rift in a Sage brush and, um, black rock, volcanic rock Mesa. And, uh, it goes down into the, um, in the kind of Canyon gorge, uh, where, um, the sides are covered in that Sage and black volcanic rocks. And it goes down into like a small river way at the bottom.

[01:30:22] And if he's in and the, if you, I, I love it in winter with like the
 
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:30:22] And if he's in and the, if you, I, I love it in winter with like the snow covering the whole Mesa, uh, snow capped mountains in the background. And it just almost reminds me of the Himalayas a little bit, because you have this high steppe environment that's just really like flat and wide and huge in all directions with a really big sky and then mountains in the background.

[01:30:54] But yeah. Um, that's the area just like to give listeners kind of picture of Taos and the area. A lot of people think of New Mexico and are like, literally surprised that you hear that there's snow and cold, but New Mexico yeah is very much, a lot of the state is mountains. A lot of it's snow and cold. Yeah.

[01:31:19] Jacob: [01:31:19] Even Albuquerque is, um, I want to say it's between like, 5,000 feet up to 6,500 feet or 6,200 feet. So, I mean, that's, that's kind of on par with Denver, so that kind of helps get the picture.

[01:31:36] Walker: [01:31:36] Um, so yeah, Albuquerque is further south than Denver, so it is warmer, but it is basically the same, um, height. And then there are the East mountains and neighborhoods that are up in the Sandias, um, but you, so you lived at the house for awhile, um, and it was healing, but you had to work at that job.

[01:31:59] That's difficult. I want to put in a word for, uh, talking about that, this problem, like, um, I wasn't, I was so sad when we have been invited to that. I wasn't able to work at all and I've been on disability. Um, it might sound like, you know, from it's diff it's difficult to like convey illness over a picture or over listening to someone speak, but you know, I have to take lots of palliative meds, even do a podcast, um, and avoid crashing, like talking is not always easy for me, even when I'm very sick.

[01:32:39] But when you get, when you're in a, when you don't have disability money, even when you do, it's not a lot of money, but when you go on disability money and you're balancing healing and working, especially if work involves being in a bad environment, um, that can be tough. So, um, speak on that struggle a little bit. And then after that, I want to hear about your move to Albuquerque and just like the different places you've been in New Mexico a little bit.

[01:33:13] Jacob: [01:33:13] Walker, you-- you like to live vicariously through the mentioned, um, yeah. Working as you said working is tough. Um, when you're in a work environment, that's, um, not good.

[01:33:30] I mean, working even, uh, I mean, I hate to say it, but yeah, working, working through this and through that healing is, it is difficult. Um, and then I think I've also come to realize how much in the past I've really been in extreme, extreme, extreme burnout from pushing myself to just pay rent and bills and everything on time.

[01:33:58] Um, and not taking care of my body or my health. There's a lot of parts of detoxing as well when your body is in a good environment and you start to let go of past toxins, maybe that had been stored for a couple of years, maybe like a lifetime. Um, and I mean, it's, it can be really intense how, without a doubt.

[01:34:25] So working through that is difficult. And if you're in that position, I think it's important to really see if you can find, uh, something that's conducive to your healing. So whether that's being outside, whether it's like parks and rec department or something, where that you can work on your computer as well, uh, that could be really helpful as long as your computer is, uh, you feel okay using your computer.

[01:35:01] Um, but then you can essentially create your environment, your home environment and work environment. So, yeah, there's, that's kind of my recommendation, but yeah,

[01:35:12] Walker: [01:35:12] But even then it can be tough because like some people are sick enough that they basically like can't tolerate most buildings and they might need to be camping and camping can be like a full time job. Just like setting up camp.

[01:35:28] Jacob: [01:35:28] Um, yeah, I mean, there's no pretty way to say it. I mean, it's, it's really not ideal to be, it feel it's a little bit like you got to choose one or the other. Um, yeah, I've lucked out a little bit with some farm work, even that though it could be, that could be really hard. Cause there's a lot of times where, um, the thing with this is like, when you feel fatigued or tired, it's usually just not a, it's not a good idea to, to try and overwork yourself or push through it.

[01:36:02] Walker: [0101:36:02] Um, right.

[01:36:04] Jacob: [01:36:04] It's, that's pretty bad idea. So that's, that's definitely hard. So yeah, it feels a little bit like one or the other.

[01:36:14] Walker: [01:36:14] Um, we're not saying this to be like, um, if you, you know how to make money and work and you also have to have health issues, don't do mold avoidance or whatever. The point is more reach out for any kind of financial support you can. I mean, like, I think there's no shame in doing like fundraisers. A lot of people started their mold avoidance journey. Yeah, I can. I know, I know someone that I think I'm thinking of a couple people at least, but at least one person I know is a really successful, really great mold avoider who I believe started with like a gofundme in their maybe church community, I'm not sure, their community in general really like filled that, not everyone that has a good support network. And it's not ideal to have to do that, but that's the reality. I mean, disability takes a while to fight for, for some of these illnesses, you don't always get it. I was lucky to get it, but even what I get is like pennies on the dollar compared to like a lot of expenses.

[01:37:17] Um, so that, that's the reality. It's not, I'm not bringing this up to say all these daunting things to not, to not leave your environment and not try this. It's just sometimes difficult. Although some people made remote work work, especially when they improve a lot from, um, avoidance. But I'm just saying, talking about the struggle to make it clear that like, um, if you see someone fundraising for this and you're like, why can't they work?

[01:37:47] I mean, like camping is difficult and camping off-grid, especially, which is often the best place to be. You don't necessarily want to be near a bunch of RVs and toilets, um, is, is a, is a job. Um, yeah. And, and this is something that this is a reason for homelessness, for one thing. Um, a lot of people won't even think of themselves as homeless, even as they're like homeless doing this because maybe they have come from, they don't think of, uh, the illness is a valid reason for houselessness and homelessness. But like, I mean, if you are not able to tolerate many homes and you're like living out of your car or whatever, even in the cold, then all of that, like you're homeless, I don't know. Or at least you're houseless, it's, you know, it's a real thing. And it's a phenomenon that I would say is like more widespread than most people realize.

[01:38:52] Jacob: [01:38:52] Yeah, definitely. Definitely agree with that.

[01:38:55] Walker: [01:38:55] Like a lot of free housing things like public housing are known to be, have really bad toxic mold, uh, problems.

[01:39:05] Jacob: [01:39:05] Yeah. That's, that's something that, that's something that's really good to, I think, bring up more about this and also to emphasize and like try and make guidelines on how to do this with when you're, when you don't have any financial support.

[01:39:23] Walker: [01:39:23] Um, yeah. It's really tough.

[01:39:26] Jacob: [01:39:26] It's tough, but it's possible. I think it's just, I think it's learning and I think the, the ways to do it, aren't, you can't just look it up. You can't say, okay, here's a RV and an RV site. It might be emailing, um, or getting, trying to contact, a lot of people don't even have computers or internet access unless you go to a library.

[01:39:48] But if you're able to email people that have, uh, like Workaways or Woofing, uh, visitor-volunteer type things, some of them are paid. Um, some of them might let you stay there for free. So there's ways. I don't think it's clear. It's not clear yet how to, how to do that.

[01:40:12]Walker: [01:40:12] Right. Well, yeah, it's very true. It's tough. I'm not saying it's not doable or not good. I'm bringing that up. Just like show the struggle because there are, there are a lot of people that I think of as very skilled mold avoiders who struggled a lot, just because it's intrinsically a difficult thing to do. Is regardless of money, those people often some of them had fairly good, um, situations that made it easier financially to count their skills and struggled.

[01:40:48] Because even if you have that, it's not easy. I mean, it's difficult emotionally to leave your house in like communities behind. Um, but for people that don't have that at all, they don't have a house to sell. They don't have assets to sell, they're asset poor and cash poor, um, it can be really difficult, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't try it.

[01:41:14] I mean, there's like, there's so many levels and ways to do this...

[01:41:18] Jacob: [01:41
 
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[01:41:14] I mean, there's like, there's so many levels and ways to do this...

[01:41:18] Jacob: [01:41:18] and you shouldn't try and it especially means that you should, like, I don't know, just try and talk to people and reach out. Like, don't be quiet.

[01:41:27] Walker: [01:41:27] Yeah, for sure. Find ways to do it. Find support, find a support system. I mean, ask for what you need. Um, uh, yeah.

[01:41:36] Uh, I wanted to get, so you, at some point you moved from Taos to Albuquerque, um, like, uh, yeah. I wanted to get back to your journey cause you're digressing a little bit, but talk about that.

[01:41:49] Jacob: [01:41:49] Sure. So I eventually made the move...

[01:41:53] Walker: [01:41:53] To the East Mountains first, which is near Albuquerque.

[01:41:57] Jacob: [01:41:57] Right. And this probably, I'm telling you most people aren't going to be too familiar with this, but it could be helpful if you decided to come to New Mexico.

[01:42:09] Um, since, um, New Mexico can be a little bit cheaper to live, especially than New York. I don't know about Vermont. Um, and outside of Albuquerque by 30 minutes, there's, uh, what's called the East mountains and it's a mountain range, uh, essentially running North of Albuquerque. Uh, I dunno how many miles, but it's, for me it was healing.

[01:42:42] I definitely did a lot of healing and felt really good there. Um, it's cheaper to live up there as well, so that's helpful. And I eventually, uh, moved to Albuquerque, which as far as the city goes is honestly, it's pretty, it's pretty good. It's pretty, relatively clean. And it's pretty cheap. Yeah. Yeah.

[01:43:08] Walker: [01:43:08] Compared to like our, Oh my God man, compared to like Los Angeles or New York or San Francisco rents, Albuquerque is insanely cheap. Uhm, but I don't know, personally, I haven't checked out like any apartments there I've stayed in hotels in Albuquerque. And I know a little bit of that or less than you for sure. Um, right. It is, it is pretty reasonable of a city in terms of outdoor air.

[01:43:38] Jacob: [01:43:38] Yeah, it definitely is. It definitely, it depends where you are.

[01:43:43] Walker: [01:43:43] Right. Every city has micro areas, which is something we're gonna talk about like, like plumes, areas that are veterans within the city, even in a simple grid city, like Albuquerque, I would say to me, I think of. I think you sent me a Trailhead that's like on the Northeast Heights area of Albuquerque, which is very near, like just the suburbs in the Northeast, uh, and just the city and the desert near the foothills of Sandias. And, uh, I felt pretty good there even in winter, which is not the best season for air.

[01:44:23] Jacob: [01:44:23] Yeah, no, it's, it's, it is. I think it's pretty good for a city. Um, it's actually far better, I've found in Santa Fe, um, which you wouldn't, you know, again, that's not something you'd expect because there's lots of industry, there's pollution, et cetera. In Albuquerque. I don't think horrible amounts.

[01:44:45]Walker: [01:44:45] Santa Fe has this reputation, people have even called the new healing vortex, has this new age healing reputation. And, um, I think it's important to like, not to be mean, but to like bust myths a little bit, it isn't really tough city in terms of air I, it is and the whole area.

[01:45:05] Um, uh, and I do not, maybe it was healing, honestly, I can totally believe that it was healing. Like maybe in the seventies when this reputation started, places change over time, but I don't know. Yeah. I could talk a little bit more about, you know, um, just, just for fun, just because this is an example, and I'm going to talk about, um, some of the idea of micro areas and plumes, and also talk about the scientific part of the outdoor toxins, but just talk about your experience, um, in terms of Albuquerque, not just like that it's pretty good for a city, but just like, I don't know when you like drive around and noticed plumes in different areas, you know, the city better there than me. You can talk about like, Just give as an example, like of a city break it down, like, and, and I would include the East mountains because they're like kind of suburbs of Albuquerque. Just break down, like what, what it's like in terms of the goods zones, the bad zones in between and what the seasonal changes are. Just go into it.

[01:46:20] Jacob: [01:46:20] Okay. Um, I want to be as helpful as I can, so I'll try and be concise. Bad zones I've found are by the river, the Rio Grande, which is the agricultural part of the city. Some of it's also protected, so you can walk and bike there. It's really beautiful. Um, I don't, unfortunately I usually don't I feel not so good there. Um, there's a lot of micro-climates I would say in Albuquerque and a lot of places you can go down one street and feel, and I'll feel good. And the next street over, even down the block, um, you know, I'm not feeling good and, uh, that is unfortunately the nature of the city. And that's like, it's not a bad place to start or come back to once you're less sensitive.

[01:47:20] Um, but I wouldn't, I still don't think it's ideal, uh, to, to live here, but it's not, it's easy to find, um, a place to live, I guess I would say. Um, although so much of the housing is still, is still not good. Um, sorry. I'll get back to your point. So a lot of stuff by the river is, I find, is not so good. It's not always that way.

[01:47:56] Rain
 
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Rain storms. Cloudy days. Um, I don't feel good going up different parts of the city use-- usually higher elevation is good and that's not always true. Um, I live kind of surrounded by like concrete and it's kind of a little weird, honestly, it's not anywhere I'd choose to live if I didn't have to be so careful.

[01:48:22] Um, but actually right here, which is kind of in the middle of the city. There's uh, the air is good. Um...

[01:48:31] Walker: [01:48:31] interesting so downtown, like old town?

[01:48:33] Jacob: [01:48:33] No, no definitely not that, not that far down. It's it is still higher elevation and than the true than like the Valley of Albuquerque.

[01:48:43] Walker: [01:48:43] Okay. So like North, Northeast urn, North?

[01:48:48]Jacob: [01:48:48] More Southeast actually.

[01:48:50] Walker: [01:48:50] Um, okay. Okay.

[01:48:52] Jacob: [01:48:52] So then going up into the mountains, there is progressively better. There is some, uh, fire forest, fire retardant that's been used, um, which Walker can go into, there's also agriculture. Um, so the East mountains, depends where you are there some places I feel like, Oh yeah, this is good. Some places I'm like, yeah. I'm like, I'm like jamming out. Cause I feel so good.

[01:49:25] Walker: [01:49:25] Yeah. Well, I'm not as familiar with it as you, you gave a nice overview. I will say that Albuquerque. Yes. In general. I've just found it to be less noxious than Santa Fe and it's the place we go where like, when I'm, even though it's like inconveniently far from some of the parts of Northern New Mexico that I really want to be, like Taos or whatever, it's a place you can go like, say we're camping, but it's too cold to camp and then we have to stay in a hotel in Albuquerque, like stay in a new hotel in a, not that bad city or there's wild Paris, which is a thing.

[01:50:03] And, you know, unfortunately when you're camping, uh, you can't necessarily have an air purifier and that sometimes happens. So Albuquerque would be like the place that I can convince a medium, decent place to, um, go. And then, and then while I'm there, if I wanted to get to a slightly better place, I might go to like, I have a spot in secret.

[01:50:30] Well, yeah, I'm not going to tell the listeners a secret because you should all find your own spots if you're working on this, but I have a spot in the Sandias, um, uh, that well within Cibola national forest that I really like, um, that's like just a little picnic area up in the Sandias, uh, probably like a couple thousand feet higher than the city, um, in the woods.

[01:50:56] And it's really, um, better air than the city. Um, and it's really pretty good. Um, so, and it's not that far of a drive. It must be like 20, 30 minutes max, um, see from, from like downtown. So that's, that's part of the thing with cities is if you do have to spend time in a city, um, you want like to find a place right outside of it or not that far to like go and get good air.

[01:51:24] I was going to bring in my recent experience. Um, I have issues beyond environmental sensitivities just that are things that have to be dealt with surgically, for example. So I've had a lot of medical appointments, which has brought me to New York city. And the crazy thing is, and you can really, this goes to what a lot of experienced avoiders said, you cannot exactly predict you cannot like go by theory and think this place would be good.

[01:51:51] This place would be bad. New York city is not that terrible of a city. I know I said that after Jacob, talked about his experiences, but we're talking about micro-areas and he was not living in Manhattan. Correct. Um, so I have not found Manhattan to be that bad. Um, I've not found Queens to be that bad although I have not spent a lot of time there.

[01:52:17] I found long Island, at least the part I've been in, which is not the far end. It's not that like really nice Hampton Sound, but it's a big Island. I've found the long Island to be pretty bad. Um, but Queens and Manhattan so far, it's not been that bad, especially like Midtown and uptown, central park. Um, I did--

[01:52:40] and this speaks to what you said about the micro-areas, like one streets bad, one streets good, run to just a really nasty cloud of pretty nasty pod of empty. That really like I was, and it immediately just like extensive doom and hopeless feeling in, uh, Thompson Square park actually in, uh, I forget whether that's the village it's near the village, at least lower east side - village.

[01:53:09] Um, yeah, that felt bad. And then parts of Northern New Jersey, I'm not talking Newark, which I've heard to avoid, but just a lot of Northern, um, New Jersey. The rural and suburban parts aren't-- isn't that horrible air wise. Um, so, um, uh, that's been part of the surviving being out here for like medical stuff. Um, but yeah, I wanted to, so we talked about our respective experiences, um, but I wanted to get a little bit to science because we're bringing up a lot of terms like mystery toxin and, uh, sewer toxins, outdoor toxins, fire retardant, talked about, but without talking about science.

[01:53:59] And so there's going to be a lot