Simplified Methylation Protocol Revised as of Today

[Sasha]

I'm awaiting electrolyte test results and suspect I may have become deficient in magnesium and/or potassium. If so, I intend to get them back to normal levels before starting up Freddd's b12 protocol again (and at lower doses!).

When I started the protocol back in June, I introduced ab12 first and immediately had more energy, for the whole week before I started mb12 (when I got start-up symptoms and Mg/K deficiency symptoms). Am I right in thinking that it's only mb12 that increases the need for potassium (and indirectly, for magnesium)? I'm wondering whether to supplement with ab12 only, until my electrolytes are normal again (if that's the problem).

 

[Dreambirdie]

Hey Rich--

How long, in your experience, does it take to clear the methylation block?

I was feeling a lot better for a while. Then I ran out of one of my supp's (high dose curcumin--for brain inflammation). When I restarted it, along with my B12 and folate, the B12 hit me harder. (I am taking the methyl--500 mcg and about 400 mcg of folate.)... And it seems like I have begun the process over again, with frontal headaches and increased hyperactivity.

So what's up with that? When is clear clear enough? Does this process have an end?

 

[richvank]

I'm awaiting electrolyte test results and suspect I may have become deficient in magnesium and/or potassium. If so, I intend to get them back to normal levels before starting up Freddd's b12 protocol again (and at lower doses!).

When I started the protocol back in June, I introduced ab12 first and immediately had more energy, for the whole week before I started mb12 (when I got start-up symptoms and Mg/K deficiency symptoms). Am I right in thinking that it's only mb12 that increases the need for potassium (and indirectly, for magnesium)? I'm wondering whether to supplement with ab12 only, until my electrolytes are normal again (if that's the problem).

Hi, Sasha.

If your intracellular B12 metabolism is operating normally, taking adenosyl B12 will result in some methyl B12 production. The need for potassium will depend on your folate status, though, because that is what is needed to make DNA and RNA to produce new cells. and they are what present the demand for potassium. So if you don't supplement folate together with the ad B12, you probably won't have a big need for potassium. Of course, this also means that you won't be bringing your methylation cycle up, either.

You could try a smaller dosage of methyl B12 than you were taking before, together with a smaller dosage of the folates, and then the need for potassium should not be as great, and perhaps will be satisfied by your diet, if you are taking in some whole foods. Whole foods have intact cells, and potassium is the main ionic species inside cells. When food is processed, the cells are broken, and a lot of potassium can be lost if water is involved. since it is very soluble.

Best regards,

Rich

 

[richvank]

Hey Rich--

How long, in your experience, does it take to clear the methylation block?

I was feeling a lot better for a while. Then I ran out of one of my supp's (high dose curcumin--for brain inflammation). When I restarted it, along with my B12 and folate, the B12 hit me harder. (I am taking the methyl--500 mcg and about 400 mcg of folate.)... And it seems like I have begun the process over again, with frontal headaches and increased hyperactivity.

So what's up with that? When is clear clear enough? Does this process have an end?

Hi, dreambirdie.

This is not an easy question to answer, because people are all unique, and it will depend on which forms of folate and B12 are taken, and at what dosages. I do have the results of our clinical study, and we found that the levels of glutathione and SAMe were brought up to normal by 9 months in most of the 30 women in the study. Two or three of them reported that they were completely recovered by that time. Most reported that they were significantly better, but not fully recovered. About a third of them were not helped, or not very much. These women were following the simplified treatment approach, which included hydroxocobalamin, folinic acid and methylfolate. The hydroxocobalamin was at 2 mg per day, and the folates totaled a few hundred micrograms per day.

Best regards,

Rich

 

[Tristen]

This is interesting Rich, since it was around the 9-12 month mark that I reached a plateau in recovery.

 

[richvank]

This is interesting Rich, since it was around the 9-12 month mark that I reached a plateau in recovery.

Please tell me more! Was it a high plateau or a low plateau?

Rich

 

[Tristen]

Please tell me more! Was it a high plateau or a low plateau?

Rich

Oh definitely a high plateau,

Up to about the 9-12 month mark, I had been making steady and progressive improvements. When I got to around 9 months, progress began to slow. I can confidently attribute about 30-40% improvements in symptoms to the Simplified Protocol. Now being at 12 months, the improvements seem to have plateaued (stopped). Adding the Lecithin a few months back made a significant impact, and so I'm continuing to look at what other changes/additions may be helpful for further progress.

 

[Dreambirdie]

Thanks Rich. Good to know.

I am on my 3rd month with the methylation sups, albeit at lower doses, and alternating the hydroxo with the methyl. I have made some progress at this point, and look forward to MORE... progress that is.

 

[Sasha]

Hi, Sasha.

If your intracellular B12 metabolism is operating normally, taking adenosyl B12 will result in some methyl B12 production. The need for potassium will depend on your folate status, though, because that is what is needed to make DNA and RNA to produce new cells. and they are what present the demand for potassium. So if you don't supplement folate together with the ad B12, you probably won't have a big need for potassium. Of course, this also means that you won't be bringing your methylation cycle up, either.

You could try a smaller dosage of methyl B12 than you were taking before, together with a smaller dosage of the folates, and then the need for potassium should not be as great, and perhaps will be satisfied by your diet, if you are taking in some whole foods. Whole foods have intact cells, and potassium is the main ionic species inside cells. When food is processed, the cells are broken, and a lot of potassium can be lost if water is involved. since it is very soluble.

Best regards,

Rich

Thanks, Rich - it sounds as though I should continue to wait for my electrolyte results (which I should have this week) and try supplementing them to get my levels up before attempting the b12 protocol again, even just the ab12. I've just been calculating how to adjust my diet so that my potassium levels should be higher but banana milk shakes and coconut water were going to be doing quite a bit of the work there! They aren't processed foods of course but does taking the potassium in cells in fluids mean that taking potassium in that way won't be as effective? I was finding that the potassium gluconate tablets that I was using while on the b12 protocol were giving me a sore stomach and I'd rather supplement via foods rather than tablets if I can.

I have found that my orthostatic intolerance has sharply worsened since the virus I caught two and a half weeks ago and that this is persisting even though presumably that infection is out of my system. I'm partly taking the coconut water to see if it helps with my OI (some people find it does - it's basically a natural electrolytes drink).

 

[richvank]

Thanks, Rich - it sounds as though I should continue to wait for my electrolyte results (which I should have this week) and try supplementing them to get my levels up before attempting the b12 protocol again, even just the ab12. I've just been calculating how to adjust my diet so that my potassium levels should be higher but banana milk shakes and coconut water were going to be doing quite a bit of the work there! They aren't processed foods of course but does taking the potassium in cells in fluids mean that taking potassium in that way won't be as effective? I was finding that the potassium gluconate tablets that I was using while on the b12 protocol were giving me a sore stomach and I'd rather supplement via foods rather than tablets if I can.

I have found that my orthostatic intolerance has sharply worsened since the virus I caught two and a half weeks ago and that this is persisting even though presumably that infection is out of my system. I'm partly taking the coconut water to see if it helps with my OI (some people find it does - it's basically a natural electrolytes drink).

Hi, Sasha.

I'm sorry that the OI has gotten worse. It may be due to lowered total blood volume. I hope the coconut water helps.

Waiting for the electrolyte results sounds like a good idea.

Taking potassium in fluids that contain whole cells should be an effective way to get it, assuming that the digestive system can break down the cell membranes, which it should be able to do.

Best regards,

Rich

 

[Sasha]

Thanks, rich - the coconut water even tastes good so it's no hardship to take it!

 

[Zuriel]

Rich and Valentijn,

Thanks for the info.

Just printed out the ELN order form and found the box for Folic-acid metabolites (Methylation; 2P; !)

Can anyone from Australia who undertook tests from European Laboratory of Nutrients, please enlighten me on the procedure, like what to do next after the GP has completed the form?
Which pathology can I walk in to have my blood drawn on two 8ml EDTA tubes?

Cheers,
Zuriel

 

[daniariete2000]

SMP with anoyher theraphy ?

Hi Rich ,

I kindly ask you if it's possible to start SMP with another theraphy in place.

I'm following a theraphy prescribed by Dr. De Meirleir

-GcMAF
-Hydrocortisone
-Armour thyroid
-Lysine (high dose)
-Ursofalk
-LDN
-Lyrica (pregabalin) 450 mg/day

Thanks

 

[richvank]

Hi Rich ,

I kindly ask you if it's possible to start SMP with another theraphy in place.

I'm following a theraphy prescribed by Dr. De Meirleir

-GcMAF
-Hydrocortisone
-Armour thyroid
-Lysine (high dose)
-Ursofalk
-LDN
-Lyrica (pregabalin) 450 mg/day

Thanks

Hi, daniariete.

I don't know of any unfavorable interactions between your current treatment regimen and the simplified methylation protocol, but I recommend that you ask Dr. de Meirleir about combining them. He is aware of the methylation treatment.

Best regards,

Rich

 

[daniariete2000]

Thanks a lot Rich for your reply.

Just an information becouse I'm going to be crazy about a blood result I've already had.

I took hydroxicobalamin 10 mg I.M 5 times/week for 2 months . Now it's 1 month that I'm not taking it but my B12 blood exam is extremely high. It's 12.540 pg/ml [211 - 911]. Have I to be worried ?

Thanks a lot

Daniele

 

[richvank]

Thanks a lot Rich for your reply.

Just an information becouse I'm going to be crazy about a blood result I've already had.

I took hydroxicobalamin 10 mg I.M 5 times/week for 2 months . Now it's 1 month that I'm not taking it but my B12 blood exam is extremely high. It's 12.540 pg/ml [211 - 911]. Have I to be worried ?

Thanks a lot

Daniele

Hi, Daniele.

Those were big dosages of hydroxocobalamin!

In ME/CFS, there appears to be a functional deficiency of B12 because of glutathione depletion. So even though the body's inventory of B12 might be high, and in your case it appears to be quite high now, the cells are not able to use it effectively.

If methylfolate is taken together with hydroxocobalamin, the dosage should be much less, because the cells should be able to use the B12 better. In your case, if you start with methylfolate, I would suggest a very small dosage at first, because you have so much B12 in your body now.

B12 has not been found to be toxic, so this high blood level should not cause problems. Most of the B12 in the blood at this point is probably bound to haptocorrin, not transcobalamin. The haptocorrin-bound fraction is not directly available to the cells of the body in general. It is eventually imported by the liver cells. Some is stored in the liver, and some is secreted in the bile, which goes to the gut. This B12 is then available to be reabsorbed, bound to transcobalamin, and presented to the cells in general. All of this is assuming that you have normal B12 metabolism, and don't have pernicious anemia, transcobalamin deficiency, or other problems with B12 metabolism.

Best regards,

Rich

 

[leela]

Hi Rich,

I stumbled on a post on another forum about folate receptor antibodies and cerebral folate deficiency.
Have you investigated or posted on this topic?

I wonder because I have had macrocytic anemia for at least four years and three years of injecting various forms of cobalamin subQ have not changed that. I had somehow missed the importance of taking folate with it, and had only been doing your SMP for two weeks before
my last blood test, which still showed the B12 anemia.

Before starting the SMP I did the methylation panel and it showed (among other things) low folinic acid.
I wonder about this autoimmune anemia theory, and if you have any experience in that arena?
The dosages are so high in that treatment that you can't take nice clean folinic acid (unless you enjoy taking 25 pills at a time)
but must got to pharmaceutical Leucovorin, which has fillers and coloring etc.
Any thoughts or insights?

 

[daniariete2000]

Hi Rich ,

thanks a lot for your answers. So..in your opinion it shoud be better to start with low dose of methylfolate. Could a do that together with whe KDM treatment and wait for the SMP until december when I'll have finished this step of theraphy (GCmaf included).

What do you suggest me for the dose of methylfolate ? And which supplement I have to buy ?

I'm also assuming Betaine HCL. Have I tos stop it ?

Thanks

Daniele

 

[Sasha]

UK sources of stuff for protocol

I'm considering switching to using the Neurological Health Formula if I'm OK with TMG (need to test some). I've been looking for a UK source and have found a site called healthreaction.com. They sell the formula at 28.

Has anyone had dealings with them? Are they reputable? I'd rather use a UK supplier if possible to avoid delays and possible customs charges, etc.

 

[ukme]

Yep I bought mine from there no problem!