Simplified Methylation Protocol Revised as of Today

[jstefl]

madietodd:

The way I look at it, it took me 20 years for the toxins to build up, so it will take some time to get rid of them and have my body adjust to the new conditions. I try very hard to avoid the headaches and nausea of detox, so I am taking things very slowly.

I find that the ups and downs, or maybe just the downs, are not as bad if I start slowly and gradually increase the dose. After starting at too high a dose, I backed off to a 1/2 multi and one serine a day. After a month I was able to increase the multi to 1 per day, and began to add the B12 and methylmate. The folinic acid was a little more of a problem for me, and even now after 3 months, I sometimes feel the need to take a 1/2 dose.

I seem to have a bad day after 4 or 5 good ones. I am not sure if I am still not able to handle a full dose, or if I just overdo things on a good day. The improvement has been pretty remarkable so far for me. In a month or so, I will increase the multi to 1-1/2 tablets a day, and then in another month or so, finally get to the 2 tablets a day.

My goal is to detox at a rate that my body can handle. For me, headaches are a sign that I am detoxing too quickly. I have had very terrible headaches for over 20 years now. The Valcyte I took reduced the headaches to the point that Tylenol had at least some effect on them. Since I started methylation, I have almost completely stopped the Tylenol. It really feels good to be almost pain free after living in pain for so long.

I feel that the rest of my body is improving more quickly than my head. Even when I am having one of my bad headache days, the rest of me feels stronger. I try to walk a lot, and since I started the methylation, walking has become much easier for me. The feeling is returning to my legs. For years, I just didn't seem to have any feelings in my legs. Now when I walk, I can feel my leg muscles again.

John

 

[richvank]

Hi, DB.

I think that Key Pharmacy in Kent, WA supplies a glutathione nasal spray. The pharmacist's name is Jim Seymour.

Best regards,

Rich

 

[aquariusgirl]

john, what do you think caused yr headaches?

 

[jstefl]

I have suffered from occasional headaches all of my life. I think that there is a genetic factor involved. My father never had a headache in his life, even after he developed CFS late in life. My mother seemed to have a lot of headaches.

When my CFS started in 2001, I developed a new kind of headache, much more painful and unrelenting than ever before. Up until then, whenever I had a headache, I tried to go to sleep, as I knew that I would feel better when I woke up. Once my CFS headaches started, the opposite effect occured, I dreaded sleep, as I knew that I would wake up feeling worse than when I went to sleep. These headaches never went away. Sometimes they were so bad that I didn't think that I could live thru them, and other times I just felt like I had a really bad cold.

This situation began to change rapidly when I started Valcyte. After only a few days, the really bad pain began to lessen. There were many ups and downs in the first few months, but by the 6th month, I was left with a dull pain that on most days was treatable with Tylenol.

Earlier this year, I started LDN and methylation. Both gave me headaches at first, so I backed off on the doses. I started LDN with a .2 mg dose three days a week, and have worked up to being able to tolerate .6 to .8 mg every day. I started the methylation with 1/2 a multivitamin tablet a day and slowly added in the other supplments as my head would allow.

After several months of this double protocol, I am almost headache free. There are many days when I don't use any painkillers at all. There is still the occasional day when I need them, but those days seem to be getting further and further apart.

I guess that I didn't answer your exact question of what caused the headaches, but my belief is that the worst were caused by the four herpes viruses I had ( HHV-6, CMV, EBV, and Parvo B19 ), and that the rest were a product of the toxins that have built up in my body.

I am still living with three different enteroviruses. I have been taking oxymatrine/equilibrant for over two years now, and am finally noticing some GI improvements. I do notice that the way my stomach feels has a direct relation to the way the rest of me feels. On my bad days, I still have a lot of stomach acid and diarrhea problems. It really is difficult to separate the entreovirus problems from the rest, but I believe that they all contribute. I am looking forward to the day when we have a real medication for EV's.

John

 

[aquariusgirl]

thanks. glad you are making headway. it's been quite a journey, evidently.

 

[dave]

Hi, Rich,

Thanks for the revised protocol. I'm really keen to get cracking with it.

Before I do, however, can you offer some advice, please?

My GP, who's big on nutritional support, has me on a daily compound including (amongst other things) 500 mcg methylcobalamin, 1000 mcg cyanocobalamin, and 1500 methionine.

Will taking any of these, and at such doses, reduce the efficacy of your protocol?

Thanks again,
Dave

 

[richvank]

Hi, Rich,

Thanks for the revised protocol. I'm really keen to get cracking with it.

Before I do, however, can you offer some advice, please?

My GP, who's big on nutritional support, has me on a daily compound including (amongst other things) 500 mcg methylcobalamin, 1000 mcg cyanocobalamin, and 1500 methionine.

Will taking any of these, and at such doses, reduce the efficacy of your protocol?

Thanks again,
Dave

Hi, Dave.

The cyanocobalamin will yield some cyanide that will need to be gotten rid of, because it's toxic. The body has four ways of doing that (reactions with thiosulfate, hydroxocobalamin, pyruvate, and alpha ketoglutarate), but in CFS they don't always work so well, because these can become depleted. I know of one person who got into trouble with it, but he was taking more than this. I guess I would feel better if cyanocobalamin was avoided. If you do the protocol I suggested, you will be adding back 2,000 mcg of hydroxocobalamin, which will more than make up for leaving out the cyanocobalamin, and won't be toxic. Quite a few PWCs are low in methionine, but I would guess that you aren't, and that should help to build up your methylation cycle flow sooner. I'll be interested to hear how it goes for you.

Best regards.

Rich

 

[dave]

Hi, Dave.

The cyanocobalamin will yield some cyanide that will need to be gotten rid of, because it's toxic. The body has four ways of doing that (reactions with thiosulfate, hydroxocobalamin, pyruvate, and alpha ketoglutarate), but in CFS they don't always work so well, because these can become depleted. I know of one person who got into trouble with it, but he was taking more than this. I guess I would feel better if cyanocobalamin was avoided. If you do the protocol I suggested, you will be adding back 2,000 mcg of hydroxocobalamin, which will more than make up for leaving out the cyanocobalamin, and won't be toxic. Quite a few PWCs are low in methionine, but I would guess that you aren't, and that should help to build up your methylation cycle flow sooner. I'll be interested to hear how it goes for you.

Best regards.

Rich

Thanks a lot, Rich, really appreciate the help. I'll let you know how I go.

Dave

 

[topaz]

Hi Rich

Thankyou for your advice to me on the thread that I started. I have decided to embark on your protocol and have a few final questions at post #10 http://forums.phoenixrising.me/show...d-to-help-decide-whether-to-start-methylation

Please accept apologies for the length of my post as it grew with several ps's as I was looking into your protocol and the supplements suggested.

Best regards

 

[dave]

Hi, Dave.

The cyanocobalamin will yield some cyanide that will need to be gotten rid of, because it's toxic. The body has four ways of doing that (reactions with thiosulfate, hydroxocobalamin, pyruvate, and alpha ketoglutarate), but in CFS they don't always work so well, because these can become depleted. I know of one person who got into trouble with it, but he was taking more than this. I guess I would feel better if cyanocobalamin was avoided. If you do the protocol I suggested, you will be adding back 2,000 mcg of hydroxocobalamin, which will more than make up for leaving out the cyanocobalamin, and won't be toxic. Quite a few PWCs are low in methionine, but I would guess that you aren't, and that should help to build up your methylation cycle flow sooner. I'll be interested to hear how it goes for you.

Best regards.

Rich

Rich, sorry, one more thing: Does it matter when the supplements in your protocol are taken - with or without food; AM or PM - or if they're taken all in one go or at different points of the day?

Thanks again for your help,
Dave

 

[richvank]

Rich, sorry, one more thing: Does it matter when the supplements in your protocol are taken - with or without food; AM or PM - or if they're taken all in one go or at different points of the day?

Thanks again for your help,
Dave

Hi, Dave.

They can be taken with or without food and at any time of the day, together or separate. Some people have reported that the phos. serine complex helps them to sleep if they take it in th evening, presumably because it lowers cortisol, and cortisol is supposed to be low during sleep. Different people seem to prefer a different dosing schedule, some finding that taking the others in the morning seems to give them more energy.

Some prefer to start with one supplement at a time to see the effects of each, or to see if they will be intolerant of any of them. For these people, I suggest starting with the multi, and then adding the phos. serine complex (or lecithin, if cortisol is low) a couple of days later, and then the B12 a couple of days later, and finally the folates, with folinic first, then the 5-methyl THF.

Other people want to give themselves the "full whammy" all at once, and that's O.K., too, but starting with lower dosages than specified in the protocol at first may be a good idea.

Best regards,

Rich

 

[dave]

Hi, Dave.

They can be taken with or without food and at any time of the day, together or separate. Some people have reported that the phos. serine complex helps them to sleep if they take it in th evening, presumably because it lowers cortisol, and cortisol is supposed to be low during sleep. Different people seem to prefer a different dosing schedule, some finding that taking the others in the morning seems to give them more energy.

Some prefer to start with one supplement at a time to see the effects of each, or to see if they will be intolerant of any of them. For these people, I suggest starting with the multi, and then adding the phos. serine complex (or lecithin, if cortisol is low) a couple of days later, and then the B12 a couple of days later, and finally the folates, with folinic first, then the 5-methyl THF.

Other people want to give themselves the "full whammy" all at once, and that's O.K., too, but starting with lower dosages than specified in the protocol at first may be a good idea.

Best regards,

Rich

OK, thanks for your comprehensive response, Rich.
Here goes!

Dave

 

[tealady]

Hi Rich,
What does the lecithin do ? or is it writen up anywhere? i've looked but can't find anything, and I've forgotten. I added it in last week again and my tingling has gone and anxiety lessened (but I also added in DHEA just before that and that seemed to help too, and I stopped most of the folic acid and I'd already just dropped the racemic 5-MTHFR), so I don't know. I found an old post from yewars ago though where I also added in lecithin and felt better too, so maybe I need it. I just take a spoonful of lecithin granules on my rolled oats at brekkie time.

 

[Sing]

Hi Rich,

I've launched into your simplified methylation protocol too, after starting the week before with Dr. Myhill's recommendations, which I found through Dr. Bell's recent talk. I was feeling desperate to try to get more energy and muscle capacity, more recovery capacity, as there are things I really want to be able to do this summer. The glutathione that she recommends contrasts/conflicts with your recommendation, and I do feel that was one supplement which added to my symptoms. So I am suspending that one for now, and just going with your protocol and the additions she recommends, minus the glutathione.

If you feel her recommendations are sound, please do post them, your take on them, on this thread as possible additions. I am referring to such things as Malic Acid, d-Ribose, COQ10/Ubiquinol, Magnesium, Selenium, the Bs that you recommend, C, A, and E.

Dr. Myhill recommends L-Carnitine and
ALA too. My understanding is that you are in favor of the Carnitine but that the ALA can precipitate mercury release in some, so to get tested first/proceed with caution on that one. Is that correct about your view?

In other words, what would be the combined, non-conflicting protocols, if there is such a thing, or would you
just like to stick with the protocol you have written about in the beginning of this thread?

Thank You,

Sing

 

[richvank]

Hi Rich,
What does the lecithin do ? or is it writen up anywhere? i've looked but can't find anything, and I've forgotten. I added it in last week again and my tingling has gone and anxiety lessened (but I also added in DHEA just before that and that seemed to help too, and I stopped most of the folic acid and I'd already just dropped the racemic 5-MTHFR), so I don't know. I found an old post from yewars ago though where I also added in lecithin and felt better too, so maybe I need it. I just take a spoonful of lecithin granules on my rolled oats at brekkie time.

Hi, tealady.

Lecithin (or alternatively, phos. serine complex) is included to support repair of damaged membranes, particularly in the mitochondria. The oxidative stress in ME/CFS can be quite severe, and the lipid membranes are the most vulnerable parts of the cells to damage from this cause.

Best regards,

Rich

 

[richvank]

Hi, Sing.

I'm glad to hear that you are giving this protocol a try, and I hope it will pay off for you.

The simplified protocol is designed to be sort of a "bare minimum" treatment to lift the partial methylation cycle block and restore glutathione, in order to minimize the cost and complexity.
I think that the additional supplements you listed from Dr. Myhill's protocol can also generally be helpful, though I do have concern about ALA in connection with mercury, as you noted, and a few people have reported an unfavorable reaction to D-ribose.
Some of the nutients you listed are actually included in the Yasko multi that is part of the simplified protocol. Here's the full content of the multi:

Serving Size: 6 Tablets (note that up to 2 tablets per day are used in the treatment)

Amount per serving: Vitamin A (as palmitate)5000 IU,Vitamin C (ascorbic acid)500 mg,Vitamin D (as cholecaliciferol)400 IU,Vitamin E (as d-alpha tocopheryl succinate)400 IU,Vitamin K (as phytonadione)40 mcg,Vitamin B-1 (as benfotiamine)25 mg,Vitamin B-2 (as riboflavin)12.5 mg,Niacin (as niacinamide)37.5 mg,Vitamin B-6 (as pyridoxal-5-phosphate)12.5 mg,Folic Acid100 mcg,Vitamin B-12 (cyanocobalamin B12)250 mcg,Biotin150 mcg,Pantothenic Acid (as d-calcium pantothenate)50 mg,Calcium (as calcium d-glucarate)25 mg,Magnesium (as citrate, oxide)100 mg,Zinc (as monomethionine)5 mg,Selenium (as L-selenomethionine)100 mcg,Manganese (as arginate)1 mg,Chromium (as polynicotinate)100 mcg,Molybdenum (as amino acid chelate)75 mcg,Potassium (as citrate)5 mg,Broccoli florets powder160 mg,Citrus bioflavonoids50 mg,Choline (as bitartrate)25 mg,Inositol25 mg,PABA (para-amino benzoic acid)5 mg,Garlic (Allium sativum) bulb powder200 mg,L-methionine150 mg,Milk thistle (Silybum marianum) seed extract100 mg,N-acetyl-cysteine75 mg,Pine (Pinus maritimus) bark extract25 mg,Taurine250 mg,Turmeric (Curcuma longa) root extract50 mg,Intrinsic Factor5 mg,Trimethylglycine (TMG)50 mg, Free Form Nucleotide Complex100 mg,Boron1 mg,L-Carnitine (Tartrate)100 mg.

(Ref.: http://www.holisticheal.com)

Best regards,

Rich

 

[Dreambirdie]

Hi Rich--

Does glutathione cause fatigue sometimes? This is now happening to me, if I take it on a daily basis.

 

[Sing]

Rich,

Thank you for being responsive and helpful to me, as to the rest of us here, always wanting to get better. It is good to hear that Dr. Myhill's approach, focussed on improving the health of our mitochondria, uses many of the same and/or compatible supplements to those you recommend for lifting the partial methylation block.

I am taking the supplement, Yasko's General Health Neurological Health Formula, which you listed the ingredients for in your answer--starting slowly, as you previously recommended. I've stopped the Glutathione for now, but still get some ALA (as it happens to be combined with the L Carnitine I bought when I didn't recall the effect of ALA when there is a mercury load, but I am backing off on this combined amount. Next time, I will definitely get separate supplements.) I do eat red meat and a high protein diet, so maybe I am not too badly off for L-Carnitine.

It has taken me a very long time to start to tackle this subject, as the science ran away with me, but the more I try to hang on, the more I am starting to get some of the key ideas.

In sum, so far I think your protocol and Dr. Myhill's recommendations are already helping, though I think the Glutathione and maybe the ALA could be exacerbating some symptoms. Overall, I think my muscle aching and recovery time are already improving--dare I say?--so I feel encouraged to go on working with this protocol.

Any improvement is not only valuable in itself, but it may well indicate being on the right track. I understand that there are more steps on the way and more of a trial and error process to go. Thank you again for pioneering a lot of this and for your willingness to lead and share.

Fredd has a somewhat different biological makeup and requirement, which some of us may indeed share with him, and so I am grateful that the distinctions between you two have been clearly expressed so that we don't get mixed up.


My best,

Sing

 

[Rockt]

Hi, tealady.

Lecithin (or alternatively, phos. serine complex) is included to support repair of damaged membranes, particularly in the mitochondria. The oxidative stress in ME/CFS can be quite severe, and the lipid membranes are the most vulnerable parts of the cells to damage from this cause.

Best regards,

Rich

Rich, I read about teadlady's probable help from lecithin in another thread, but I have some unopened Phosphitydal Serine Complex, so I'm thinking I should try it first. What is the recommended dosage and do most people have to start slowly and work up or is this generally well tolerated? Also, I remember someone saying it helped with sleep. Do you recommend taking a dose at bedtime?

Thanks.

 

[Vegas]

Rich, I read about teadlady's probable help from lecithin in another thread, but I have some unopened Phosphitydal Serine Complex, so I'm thinking I should try it first. What is the recommended dosage and do most people have to start slowly and work up or is this generally well tolerated? Also, I remember someone saying it helped with sleep. Do you recommend taking a dose at bedtime?

Thanks.

I don't think he ever recommended a dosage. Typically PS Complex has 500 mg. It can make you a bit sleepy, so I would recommend taking it at night. From personal experience and from what I have read, I don't think there is any merit to the fears its cortisol lowering effects will lead to adverse effects. While it can lower cortisol, I think it makes the tissues more sensitive to cortisol. Even if this is a concern in someone who has hypocortisolemia they can take it at night when they want low cortisol anyway. If your cell membranes are all beat up, how can something that inhibits lipid peroxidation be bad for you in moderate amounts? I suspect you will tolerate this without any problems.