SIBO, antibiotics, acid drops, and Herxheimer reactions

[hb8847]

Hi, do any of you have any experience with SIBO-related Herxheimer reactions (i.e. "die off" reactions) following antibiotics, specifically Rifaximin and/or Neomycin?

I have been struggling with SIBO for some time and have been given a plan of action by my specialist doctor who I like, which includes dietary adjustments, stomach acid droplets, and antibiotics (the full plan I've described below).

The issue I've got is that I've barely been able to make any progress because I'm already getting such strong Herxheimer reactions from the stomach droplets, let alone the antibiotics. I'm meant to get up to 20 droplets before each meal - right now I'm not able to even take more than two.

I'm considering going ahead and trying to take the antibiotics first, in the hope they'll give me less of a Herxheimer (I've read some accounts of people not reacting to them).

Does anyone have experience of this? Is there anyone who has had such a low tolerance to acid droplets or gut medications? I feel it's crazy how overladen with SIBO I appear to be. I have a hunch my Herx might be being made worse by the fact I'm already on methylation supplements which will be upping my inflammation. I also worry that I may also have candida even though this didn't show up on my recent stool test.

Anyway, any input would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance.


P.S. Here's the full plan

1. Follow strict FODMAP & no sugar diet (have already been doing this for years - I eat mainly veggies, seeds, meat, nuts, some fruit)

2. Digestive enzyme before each meal

3. Take stomach acid drops before each meal (I also have very low stomach acid which has probably contributed to my SIBO), starting at 5 x 3 meals and slowly working up to 20 x 3.

4. Once taking 60 drops daily begin a course of antibiotics. Specifically Rifaximin and Neomycin, together, for 2 weeks.

5. Then take Microbinate, a natural antibiotic for 2-4 months.

6. Begin taking Probiotics as soon as the course of antibiotics is done.

 

[vaer]

Stomach acid drops as in Betaine HCL?

 

[hb8847]

Stomach acid drops as in Betaine HCL?

No, it's a liquid solution called Guttae Pepsin (the first result if you Google it) which appears to be 37% HCL mixed in with some other stuff. I think the aim is to increase the acidity of my stomach acid, not sure if that's the purpose as the Betaine capsules.

 

[hb8847]

I figured this one out by the way - the stomach acid drops were giving me a Herx reaction after all, and I've managed to significantly allay these symptoms through taking glutathione.

Glutathione helps the body to detox, and evidently I'm deficient. I also react strongly to B12 supplements and have methylation issues which ties in with glutathione deficiency, so the fact I'm glutathione deficient isn't a surprise.

I've mentioned the specific glutathione supplement elsewhere on the site in case anyone is interested, it's one combined with other cofactors as the pure form just made me feel worse.

 

[Hopeful2021]

Hello HB....

I am very interested in learning more about Glutathione supplementation in this community. Have you had your glutathione plasma levels checked more than once? What did you find? I heard about a liposomal form of glutathione from a company which actually has blood plasma tests to confirm that their product works really well. I haven't ordered it yet. And as far as I know I don't think I've ever tested my plasma glutathione levels. I have recently in the past month and a half, added glutathione IV to my other IV treatments. And it's spectacular. I can say that I have my brain back before this disease.
It was really nice reading your post. I'm new to this community at phoenix rising and I'm looking forward to meeting more people here. Thank you

 

[hb8847]

Hello HB....

I am very interested in learning more about Glutathione supplementation in this community. Have you had your glutathione plasma levels checked more than once? What did you find? I heard about a liposomal form of glutathione from a company which actually has blood plasma tests to confirm that their product works really well. I haven't ordered it yet. And as far as I know I don't think I've ever tested my plasma glutathione levels. I have recently in the past month and a half, added glutathione IV to my other IV treatments. And it's spectacular. I can say that I have my brain back before this disease.
It was really nice reading your post. I'm new to this community at phoenix rising and I'm looking forward to meeting more people here. Thank you

I never had my glutathione levels checked. It was more of a trial and error - I had extensive gut health issues confirmed by testing, and also histamine and mast cell activation and autoimmunity triggered by food. Low methylation was key to the latter, which itself can be caused by poor gut health - a vicious cycle. Poor methylating was also causing the histamine response.

Glutathione is key to the methylation cycle and also the body's ability to detoxify. It has been a complete game changer for me, and that is before even fully addressing the gut issues.

I take Optimal Liposomal Glutathione Plus sold by Ben Lynch Seeking Health. All other forms of glutathione made me feel actively worse. His site in general has been a goldmine of information for me.

Best of luck.

 

[Tiffyshea]

Hello HB....

I am very interested in learning more about Glutathione supplementation in this community. Have you had your glutathione plasma levels checked more than once? What did you find? I heard about a liposomal form of glutathione from a company which actually has blood plasma tests to confirm that their product works really well. I haven't ordered it yet. And as far as I know I don't think I've ever tested my plasma glutathione levels. I have recently in the past month and a half, added glutathione IV to my other IV treatments. And it's spectacular. I can say that I have my brain back before this disease.
It was really nice reading your post. I'm new to this community at phoenix rising and I'm looking forward to meeting more people here. Thank you

What IV treatments are you doing?

I'm new to the boards as well... actually I'm new to the realization that I have ME/CFS as for years nobody new what was wrong with me. I finally got my diagnosis after going to the Mayo clinic, and it makes so much sense. It's been so interesting realizing there's a whole world ofpeople going through what I'm going through.

 

[Tiffyshea]

Also, @hb8847 my entire fiasco with ME/CFS began with a really really terrible SIBO infection that nobody would even give me the antibiotics for because a naturopath had given me the breath test that discovered it. Most Gastro clinics where I live don't even administer breath tests.

I finally found a clinic that did them, and was treated so badly by the practitioner who told me that "first of all she didn't believe in eastern medicine" - referring to the naturopath, and that she "didn't treat patients for bloating" afterwards she told me she has real patients with real problems like stomach cancer to attend to. I pressed on and made them do their own test on me which was very positive for SIBO, and was finally given the antibiotics.

At one point I did get a Herx reaction, but it just felt like the flu for a few days - a feverish feeling and a sore throat.

I realize you posted this a few months ago... I wonder how are you doing now?

 

[Hopeful2021]

What IV treatments are you doing?

I'm new to the boards as well... actually I'm new to the realization that I have ME/CFS as for years nobody new what was wrong with me. I finally got my diagnosis after going to the Mayo clinic, and it makes so much sense. It's been so interesting realizing there's a whole world ofpeople going through what I'm going through.

Hi... if you tap on the icon of my name/square, you can click on it, then my posts. I wrote a lot about my IVs. Or you could search IV therapy maybe.
I really love my life with IV. It's so worth trying or researching.
I've been out and about. Not like prior to this disease, but still pretty great.

 

[hb8847]

Also, @hb8847 my entire fiasco with ME/CFS began with a really really terrible SIBO infection that nobody would even give me the antibiotics for because a naturopath had given me the breath test that discovered it. Most Gastro clinics where I live don't even administer breath tests.

I finally found a clinic that did them, and was treated so badly by the practitioner who told me that "first of all she didn't believe in eastern medicine" - referring to the naturopath, and that she "didn't treat patients for bloating" afterwards she told me she has real patients with real problems like stomach cancer to attend to. I pressed on and made them do their own test on me which was very positive for SIBO, and was finally given the antibiotics.

At one point I did get a Herx reaction, but it just felt like the flu for a few days - a feverish feeling and a sore throat.

I realize you posted this a few months ago... I wonder how are you doing now?

Hi there @Tiffyshea,

I'm doing OK thanks. I've been on the glutathione but I hit a bit of a wall with how much I was able to progress on it alone, given that taking too much would trigger autoimmunity.

For the past month or so I've moved onto the gut. I started with acid droplets (to increase the levels of stomach acidity) and digestive enzymes, as well as a product called "Perm plus" which is supposed to heal gut lining. Then I moved onto antibiotics last week, and these seemed to definitely be doing 'something', although I wasn't sure whether it was positive or negative. Basically they were giving me a lot of flatulence and I began to get increasingly achey in the mornings (which I'm thinking was probably a Herx reaction).

Unfortunately I then had to stop the antibiotics because I began noticing some ear problems; had some ear aches and tinnintus and had read that one of the antibiotics (Neomycin) can cause permanent hearing damage so I didn't want to take the risk and came off both.

My plan now is to let things settle with my ears before tentatively restarting the other antibiotic in a few days. I'll post my progress elsewhere on this forum so please check my posts for more info on this.

Hugo

 

[Tiffyshea]

@hb8847 be careful about ending antibiotics early... you can allow the bacteria to mutate to become resistant.

For me celery juice every morning ... 16oz on an empty stomach than nothing else for 15 - 20 minutes, has really helped my stomach acid situation. I don't know how, or even why I decided to try and stick with it... I am someone who looks for a scientific/research based explanation of anything I put in my body and the science behind celery juice looks like a lot of b.s. hype to me, but it actually worked for me. Granted, it did take about a month before I really started noticing it. Nowdays when I start getting bloated I just do celery juice again for a few days and it resolves.