Severe Nausea Attacks - new symptom

PatJ

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However, I do want people to be aware of the fact that charcoal will absorb medications after a short time of use.
That depends on the timing. This is what drugs.com has to say about it:
Do not take Activated Charcoal with any other medicine. Take your dose of Activated Charcoal at least 2 hours before or 1 hour after a dose of any other medicine. Activated Charcoal binds to other drugs and can make them less effective, which could become dangerous.
 

lenora

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That depends on the timing. This is what drugs.com has to say about it:
Okay. That's about the same as other drugs in the same class. I'd just always read that charcoal had a higher rate of absorption. I used to use it myself. Be careful and be sure to drink at least 3/4 of a glass of water afterwards.

One day I was talking and was horrified to see a plume of black smoke exiting my mouth. A quick check revealed that my tongue was also black and I haven't used it since. I'll also add that it's the only time that ever occurred. Actually, it was quite funny. Yours, Lenora
 
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@Booksellercate

I saw your message on this forum and decided to register and post my experience. I believe we are both going through the same problem. Could I ask if you are still taking any PPI's?

I believe what you are currently going through is partly caused as a result of taking PPI. First question to ask yourself is this: Is my problems worse at the moment after I have been on PPI, or was my problem not so bad before PPI?

I have been reading a lot of research paper and so far, it says PPI causes Achlrydria which lead to hypergastrinaemia. Hypergastrinaemia can also be seen with people with H.pylori infection. This is where they have been changes to the stomach that leads to excess production of acid. Achlorhydria is when you have little or no acid. I believe this is why your food is coming back up because you don't have enough acid to digest the food. So it sits in your stomach and can come back up when there's a trigger. I used to have food coming up to my chest, and throat when I was on PPI. Sometimes I will eat and I could feel like the food is stuck in my best and not going down. That's because the food I ate before is still in my stomach and not digested because of a lack of acid. Eating more means my stomach is unable to accept any more. And this can make the food easily come back up. Please do not try HCI, because this would lead to your stomach produce excess amount of stomach acid. I have tried this. I have HCL, and all the digestive enzymes and supplement. They help you digest your food but they trigger excess acid production which is something you also have to avoid.

The bloating, feeling full, loss of appetite, nausea and abdominal pain is exactly what I do experience. That's because of no acid in my stomach. When I eat more food, I would get cramping also like my stomach is forcing my food to pass my small intestine. This is all because there's no acid to digest the food in your stomach and using digestive enzymes will trigger your stomach to produce excess acid which will give you terrible stomach pain. The increase in stomach acid does affect both your stomach and small intestine, the excess acid goes down with your food to your small intestine causing more pain.

My problem started when I had abdominal pain when I went to the A&E. Because my barium test had shown reflux which I did 2 months before going to the A&E, I was given Omeprazole as the doctor thought my stomach was producing too much stomach acid. I had read about the consequences of PPI but I ignored that because I wanted a quick relief. PPI should not be prescribed easily without proof that the stomach makes too much acid.

I noticed very little difference after one week and then came another problem. My stomach started producing excess acid (hypersecretion), because PPI would lower my stomach acid, but the body will eventually figure out that the body is short of acid, and will go into overdrive, thereby producing so much acid. The new problem was now over-production of acid, and I started getting heartburn, chest pain and I could feel the heat from my stomach coming all the way to my throat.

At this point, I thought I had full-blown reflux and stomach problem, not knowing the PPI was behind it. I have done pretty much all the test and scan you can do for reflux and stomach (Gastric emptying, H.pylori, Endoscopy, MRI for stomach, All blood test relating to stomach, SIBO breath test, 24 pH Manometry study, CT scan, X-ray, Comprehensive stool test, and many others which I don't remember at this moment), All test came back negative. I stopped taking PPI after 2 months on it, and my symptoms increased. The funny part of this problem is that doctors don't seem to know what's happening to me. Some thought I had IBS, some thought it is reflux and I should take more PPI.

I'm currently in consultation with 3 doctors on private (one from London bridge Hospital, one from Park side hospital, another doctor that runs a clinic on reflux and he is the leading surgeon on linx surgery for reflux in the UK), and I have consulted with another 3 doctors but didn't go further than the second consultation. Still no answer as to the cause of my problem.

The only problem that stood out among all the test was the 24 PH study, The test was done for about 24 hours and it showed I had no stomach acid for about 18 hours, I only had acid in my stomach between 1am to 3am. They advised it could be achlorhydria. My doctor did Gastrin blood test which showed normal level and he thought this was not a problem.

The Covid 19 situation has given me daily access to all these doctors and I have been quick to rule out problems like Crohn disease with MRI, gastric emptying together with other blood tests. My next step is to fully investigate why my stomach produces excess acid.

My first advice to you is to talk with your doctor about how to stop PPI, and after this, you will have to go through the excess stomach acid problems, but this is the beginning of your solution. I feel much better now than when I was taking the PPI. But I felt worse after stopping the PPI and gradually I am feeling better. But the problem is that the acid rebound is not stopping and it is triggered by almost everything, from eating too much, having oil in my food, eating food with too much acid.

PPI should only be used when there's an extreme need for it. The side effects are scary. When you google side effects of PPI, you only find information that is not bad. But when you read the research papers published about the use of PPI, it is so scary. Currently, I'm on an elemental diet which is a liquid diet. I was 96kg a year ago but I'm now 74kg. All because PPI has changed the whole anatomy of my stomach. I read that the rebound was 60 percent less after 26 weeks. in a research paper. I agree because my rebound has reduced slightly, at this rate it could take another 2 to 3 years to reduce to a level I'm happy with, but I wish it can just stop. It has damaged my stomach.

I have been amazed at how these top doctors have no knowledge of the impact of PPI. And when you suffer from the side effect of PPI, they have no clue and think you have IBS or gastritis. By the way, I was at the A&E yesterday which severe stomach pain. I knew it was my stomach producing too much acid, and the doctors there wanted to give me again more PPI. She told me she has a medical degree and I don't need to explain to her the problems that come with PPI when she clearly has no clue. I had to do a new H.pylori test today just to rule that out once more because I only did the breath test last year.

I do believe our solution lies in making our stomach produce just normal amount of acid or at least stabilize the production of acid. No acid and you will have issues, and too much acid you will have issues. We are currently experiencing both. This is why the problem is so confusing.
 
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Hello everybody,

I'm hoping that you'll all get a notification for this update...

It's been a few weeks since I've had a severe nausea attack. They seem to have stopped almost as suddenly as they appeared (although I am still alert and assuming I haven't seen the last of them) - and my stomach has returned to its 'normal bad' state.

I spoke to a gastro doctor about 3 weeks ago and she had a few comments to make, which I'll list below:
- she didn't think it was worth doing an endoscopy as she didn't think it'd show any answers and many stomachs in my state show 'redness' and inflammation ie gastritis which can be a red herring (she advised me to treat my stomach as if I have gastritis, which I do)
- she asked me to increase my dose of CoQ10, although didn't go into detail on the mechanism (or perhaps she did and I can't remember) and also suggested increasing my doses of magnesium and adding vitamin B6
- she has advised me to trial metaclopramide if I have attacks, in case the attacks are a result of delayed gastric emptying, often present in PoTs patients
- more generally, she is exploring the idea of 'abdominal migraines'
- She has prescribed a neuromodulator

To be clear, these are things to try, in the order I have listed them above, until I see her in December - not to try at the same time. She says she has some more ideas up her sleeve.

I still don't know why the attacks happened.
Viral? Bacterial? Anxiety-related? A 'habit' or 'pattern' my stomach fell into.

If there are more updates or they return and any of the above ideas work, I'll report back.

Thank you all for responding. I read and absorbed each comment and was grateful for each one. Having a chronic illness can feel very lonely and it is always heart-warming that a stranger on the internet will take the time to offer advice.
 

lenora

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Hello everybody,

I'm hoping that you'll all get a notification for this update...

It's been a few weeks since I've had a severe nausea attack. They seem to have stopped almost as suddenly as they appeared (although I am still alert and assuming I haven't seen the last of them) - and my stomach has returned to its 'normal bad' state.

I spoke to a gastro doctor about 3 weeks ago and she had a few comments to make, which I'll list below:
- she didn't think it was worth doing an endoscopy as she didn't think it'd show any answers and many stomachs in my state show 'redness' and inflammation ie gastritis which can be a red herring (she advised me to treat my stomach as if I have gastritis, which I do)
- she asked me to increase my dose of CoQ10, although didn't go into detail on the mechanism (or perhaps she did and I can't remember) and also suggested increasing my doses of magnesium and adding vitamin B6
- she has advised me to trial metaclopramide if I have attacks, in case the attacks are a result of delayed gastric emptying, often present in PoTs patients
- more generally, she is exploring the idea of 'abdominal migraines'
- She has prescribed a neuromodulator

To be clear, these are things to try, in the order I have listed them above, until I see her in December - not to try at the same time. She says she has some more ideas up her sleeve.

I still don't know why the attacks happened.
Viral? Bacterial? Anxiety-related? A 'habit' or 'pattern' my stomach fell into.

If there are more updates or they return and any of the above ideas work, I'll report back.

Thank you all for responding. I read and absorbed each comment and was grateful for each one. Having a chronic illness can feel very lonely and it is always heart-warming that a stranger on the internet will take the time to offer advice.
Thanks for letting us know what's going on in your life. That all sounds very hopeful, including the appt. in December. I'll be sending you best wishes that life stays where you are now....and that you'll return to living a full life (as you knew it) before too long. Yours, Lenora.
 
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Hello everybody,

I'm hoping that you'll all get a notification for this update...

It's been a few weeks since I've had a severe nausea attack. They seem to have stopped almost as suddenly as they appeared (although I am still alert and assuming I haven't seen the last of them) - and my stomach has returned to its 'normal bad' state.

I spoke to a gastro doctor about 3 weeks ago and she had a few comments to make, which I'll list below:
- she didn't think it was worth doing an endoscopy as she didn't think it'd show any answers and many stomachs in my state show 'redness' and inflammation ie gastritis which can be a red herring (she advised me to treat my stomach as if I have gastritis, which I do)
- she asked me to increase my dose of CoQ10, although didn't go into detail on the mechanism (or perhaps she did and I can't remember) and also suggested increasing my doses of magnesium and adding vitamin B6
- she has advised me to trial metaclopramide if I have attacks, in case the attacks are a result of delayed gastric emptying, often present in PoTs patients
- more generally, she is exploring the idea of 'abdominal migraines'
- She has prescribed a neuromodulator

To be clear, these are things to try, in the order I have listed them above, until I see her in December - not to try at the same time. She says she has some more ideas up her sleeve.

I still don't know why the attacks happened.
Viral? Bacterial? Anxiety-related? A 'habit' or 'pattern' my stomach fell into.

If there are more updates or they return and any of the above ideas work, I'll report back.

Thank you all for responding. I read and absorbed each comment and was grateful for each one. Having a chronic illness can feel very lonely and it is always heart-warming that a stranger on the internet will take the time to offer advice.

After a year of battling with Stomach issues and occasional reflux symptoms, I had two episodes of severe stomach pain about two weeks ago. I went to St Thomas Hospital A&E and they thought It could be Ulcer, but they thought it was good idea to do H.Pylori stool test with my GP and a new endoscopy. I did the stool test and it came back negative.

Today I did the endoscopy, everything was normal in my stomach but H.pylori was positive. I smiled when I was told about the positive H.pylori test. Because more than 3 gastroenterologist thinks I have IBS or stomach nerve issues and my main gastroenterologist is fed up with me. I pay £200 every time for a consultation and I have spoken with him about 13 times in the last two month, this is not including tests which I have done. He thinks I'm wasting my money now. I have started with the anti-biotics treatment. All my symptoms really did point to the possibility of having h.pylori behind it.

Before this endoscopy which tested positive, I had one previous endoscopy in December last year which was h.pylori negative, I had to stop taking omeprazole 10 days before the endoscopy.

I think your problem might be related to H.pylori. My advice would be to get off the PPI gradually and when you are off, wait a few months and do an endoscopy where they can check for H.pylori. Because PPI does hide the issues behind your problem. That's what the doctors told in when I went to St Thomas. I remember when I first went to the A&E with stomach pain, I was given PPI right away without test. Subsequently things went from bad to worse. This bacteria is a sneaky bacteria that is difficult to detect sometimes. A friend I spoke with similar issues which are resolved now, only tested positive for H.pylori after two years of terrible stomach issue. After the antibiotics treatment, he is fine now. No more stomach issue for 3 years plus.
 
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After a year of battling with Stomach issues and occasional reflux symptoms, I had two episodes of severe stomach pain about two weeks ago. I went to St Thomas Hospital A&E and they thought It could be Ulcer, but they thought it was good idea to do H.Pylori stool test with my GP and a new endoscopy. I did the stool test and it came back negative.

Today I did the endoscopy, everything was normal in my stomach but H.pylori was positive. I smiled when I was told about the positive H.pylori test. Because more than 3 gastroenterologist thinks I have IBS or stomach nerve issues and my main gastroenterologist is fed up with me. I pay £200 every time for a consultation and I have spoken with him about 13 times in the last two month, this is not including tests which I have done. He thinks I'm wasting my money now. I have started with the anti-biotics treatment. All my symptoms really did point to the possibility of having h.pylori behind it.

Before this endoscopy which tested positive, I had one previous endoscopy in December last year which was h.pylori negative, I had to stop taking omeprazole 10 days before the endoscopy.

I think your problem might be related to H.pylori. My advice would be to get off the PPI gradually and when you are off, wait a few months and do an endoscopy where they can check for H.pylori. Because PPI does hide the issues behind your problem. That's what the doctors told in when I went to St Thomas. I remember when I first went to the A&E with stomach pain, I was given PPI right away without test. Subsequently things went from bad to worse. This bacteria is a sneaky bacteria that is difficult to detect sometimes. A friend I spoke with similar issues which are resolved now, only tested positive for H.pylori after two years of terrible stomach issue. After the antibiotics treatment, he is fine now. No more stomach issue for 3 years plus.

Thank you for your comment.

I've been tested twice for h-pylori and it came back negative both times. I took a course of mastic gum in 2016 just to be on the safe side!

I do not take PPIs, nor have I, aside from a brief experiment to appease my doctors in 2016.

My current theory is that I have 'PTSD' in my stomach. But how to fix that....
 
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Thank you for your comment.

I've been tested twice for h-pylori and it came back negative both times. I took a course of mastic gum in 2016 just to be on the safe side!

I do not take PPIs, nor have I, aside from a brief experiment to appease my doctors in 2016.

My current theory is that I have 'PTSD' in my stomach. But how to fix that....
Those stool and breath tests are not very reliable. I did three stool tests, one breath test and one endoscopy in December which all came back negative. I think its worth a try to do an endoscopy where they will take a biopsy and test for H.pylori. And if I were you, I would make sure the endoscopy is done in a very good hospital. My first endoscopy was done in a private hospital, not sure if that's why the h.pylori was missed. I don't believe there's anything like PTSD in the stomach. Our stomach has bacteria, yeast, fungi. These are the only things that can cause stomach problems. Research shows that 95% of ulcers are caused by H.pylori. Why do people with stomach issues get better and cured by using the SCD Diet. That's because it starves these bacteria and co of their food.

I do believe that most stomach problems are caused by these bacteria etc. Have you ever thought about this, that a couple of years ago that your stomach was working alright but suddenly it starts causing you problems.
Our body is the best healer. It automatically starts healing itself when there's a problem. When these bacteria cause problems, the body cannot heal itself unless these bacteria are gotten rid of.

It can be very frustrating when doctors can't tell you exactly what's wrong with your stomach. Because it is such a complicated part of our body. They most times have no clue what's happening in our stomachs and that's why they will say it's IBS.
 
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Second star to the right ...
Candied ginger is a great one to have on hand.
Candied ginger is good on two levels: the heat fron the ginger may be able to produce a sort of capsaicin analgesic effect, and of course, the ginger is a textbook treatment for nausea.

The only thing is that I'm not sure how much of ginger's healing profile is affected by its preparation: it's simmered in sugar syrup, and the heat and liquid may have an effect on its chemical profile.

Other than that, might be worth a try by itself, or maybe in conjunction with other stuff.
 
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- She has prescribed a neuromodulator
I'd humbly suggest being cautious with 'neuromodulators'.

The most common ones are tricyclic antidepressants, which require massive adjustments in what you eat or drink, or things like gabapentin, which can have unpleasant side effects once you decide to get off it nd sometimes even while you're on it ....

On the other hand, she might have prescribed something much better than either of the above in which case I'll just quietly see myself out :xeyes::xeyes::xeyes:
 

kangaSue

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more generally, she is exploring the idea of 'abdominal migraines'
GI problems can be pretty complicated to unravel so it can be any number of things but there's another name for abdominal migraines that could fit for your symptoms, chronic mesenteric ischemia (CMI). This is usually associated with having one or more narrowed bowel arteries but 'abdominal migraines' can also be from impaired bowel vasodilation/vasoconstriction mechanisms (mesenteric resistance vessels) so can also be a microvascular bowel blood flow issue (non-occlusive Chronic mesenteric ischemia, also known as NOMI) and autonomic dysfunction is one mechanism that can cause it.

NOMI is often a diagnosis of clinical suspicion because there is little in the way of any pathology to diagnose it from. Most doctors only strike it in critically ill patients and few know that it occurs in an outpatient population too. It also escapes them that it can just be a cause of niggling nondescript GI symptoms at first, and maybe with occasional transient flare ups such as what you have recently gone through.

There's a couple of abdominal vascular conditions that can cause similar symptoms though, SMA Syndrome or MALS (Median Arcuate Ligament Syndrome) but then again, CMI can be caused by these conditions too.

I have idiopathic chronic gastroparesis and Autonomic Neuropathy and in the absence of any mesenteric artery stenosis, came to suspect I had NOMI after 12 years of having GI dysmotility not responsive to any medication and found from trialing a peripheral vessel vasodilator med (nicorandil) that it helped with gastroparesis symptoms including significantly improving the epigastric abdominal pain I was having from eating. I also have low blood pressure from having Autonomic Neuropathy and contrary to expectation, the med didn't drop my bp further and in fact, it helped to stabilise it and increase it a little bit (just one of those paradoxes that can go with having autonomic dysfunction).

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6498801/ Clinical management of chronic mesenteric ischemia
 

lenora

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HI @Kanga Sue......Thanks for all the information you provided. Unless it's something pretty obvious, is there are way that the symptoms of intestinal problems ever present themselves without a lot of work first?a I hope you'll soon feel better. Yours, Lenora
 

lenora

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@kangaSue.......I'd love to, but I don't ever remember sending that to you to begin with. Odd as I just received one from someone else, a Haley in NZ and I've never been in contact with her before, either.

I have some gastro problems with my ME (or my other neurological conditons....take your pick), but I don't know if I could be of any help to anyone else. If I could, trust me, I'd be right there telling you what worked, the type of Dr. to see, etc. However, under the circumstances, I really don't know what to say. Sorry. Yours, Lenora.
 
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Hey Cate,

I’m also living in england with a chronic illness and have found the NHS deeply upsetting and frustrating over my time, so empathy on that front.

My illness was not exactly like people would describe as chronic fatigue but I do have a walking disability and a bunch of other symptoms that have impacted greatly on my quality of life.

My reason for a visit to this thread is that I have also been experiencing nauseous symptoms although not as severe as you describe. Even this small nauseous episodes are horrible so I’m very glad for you that yours have abated some what and am sorry you’ve had to go through this.

In my case a lot of my symptoms appear t be supplement related, deficits and what have you. So I am interested to read about coQ10, b6 and magnesium in your case as being suggested for nausea. I am very lucky in that I have found a lot of better health by adding in millions of different supps haha but it is a balancing act with new symptoms all the time.

Anyway I am interested in you saying you feeling you have a sort of pTSD in your stomach because i think this is like what I had that was stopping me from walking, like my muscles were all being kept stiff by a some pathological stress/attentional patterns in my mind. I worked this out by trying something called open focus meditation. It was developed by some cognitive neuroscience guys at Standford. I’m sure it can’t help everyone but in my case I couldn’t walk for more than a year with ridiculously rigid tight muscles and fatigue etc. And no supplements would work everything would make it much worse. And then I did the meditation and after like 1 week I could feel my muscles miraculously releasing the tension. As they began to relax and obviously something changed in my mind to allow my muscles to start producing energy I started to get nutritional deficiencies so then I’ve had to spend about 6 months chasing after all of those but it was a miracle. I know something changed because before all supplements would make it much worse and more rigid and horrible and bring on all sorts of severe symptoms but after my muscles started to relax, after starting the meditation, when I found the right supps they would help. I’m convinced the meditation allowed my muscles to start producing energy and where they’d been in such a parlous state for so long I was very low in my vits and minerals and have run into many different deficiencies.

Anyway I hope some of that begins to make sense as I have trouble recounting it in a way that even makes sense to myself. I have no doubt that the ‘meditation’ will not help everyone or probably most people but it made me think there was a case for it when u said u thought perhaps your symptoms could be a form of ptsd, because I think in a way mine were. Anyway you can Download some videos to follow here https://www.openfocusattentiontraining.com/shop/ for free and if nothing else it’s meant to be good for anxiety and stress.

I hope this is of some help to you! There’s many other avenues you can take if you think your symptoms might be stress related like LENS therapy for ptsd, this is related to the open focus meditation in that it tries to reset pathological brain oscillations that have become ingrained by painful stress episodes. Very worth looking I think if you have an inclination any symptoms could be stress related.

I wish you all the best Cate and really hope you find some ongoing relief.

Lots of love,

Sophie