Selenium helped me a lot (remission?), but I still can't exercise...

[ljimbo423]

do you maybe know what the cause of MFS's CFS/ME was?

It was a gut infection caused by the bacteria "Yersinia". This is a quote from one of msf's posts-

FWIW, I know what triggered my gut translocation problems, it was getting Yersinia. However, some people seem to get this (and even keep this) without having ME (and others get reactive arthritis), so I am sure genetics has a big part to play (it seems to run in my family for a start). So I would say triggering infection plus genetics = bacterial translocation= ME.

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/second-visit-to-kdm-any-advice.61877/#post-1006978

 

[JohnnyMinnesota99]

Hello everybody,

I have taken Oxymatrine for 32 days now, and I have reached the level of 4 pills per day. So far, everything was cool, but on Tuesday night I got gastrointestinal problems. They got better yesterday, but now they are back. Curiously, my girlfriend, who lives with me, also had those problems but not as severe as I had. In contrast to me, she is fine now. I am wondering if my gastrointestinal problems are due to the Oxymatrine intake?! I took two pills 30 minutes ago, and now I am feeling worse.

Also, I had a strong headache and moderate limb pain last night. Could it be the process of healing with my immune system keeping on fighting CVB5, or would you rather thinkg it's a gastic flu?

I have read that the intake of Oxymatrine can cause gastrointestinal problems... Anybody who has experienced the same problems?

Best wishes

Johnny

 

[JohnnyMinnesota99]

P.S.: I also felt quite unsettled and restless last night, almost a bit anxious. I have never felt such an experience when having a gastric flu.

 

[Hip]

Could it be the process of healing with my immune system keeping on fighting CVB5, or would you rather thinkg it's a gastic flu?

If your girlfriend who lives with you has the same gastrointestinal symptoms, it could be a bug you both picked up, or perhaps some bad food you both ate which caused these symptoms.

Alternatively it could be the antiviral effects of oxymatrine kicking in. Some ME/CFS patients who take oxymatrine notice a period of fever appearing after around a month or two, which lasts for a few days. This is the immune system fighting off the virus. After some days the fever stops, and their ME/CFS is much better.

This is how Dr Chia describes it:

So he took oxymatrine for two and a half months, and nothing happened. Then all of a sudden, he started having fevers, for 4 to 5 days. This gentleman could not do anything, except taking his son to school in the car. The rest of the time he is housebound. He couldn't do anything, OK. So he had no exposure to any sick people, his wife and children were not sick.

So he had fewer for 4 or 5 days, and his body aches were a little better, and he had some mental clarity. Then the next 10 days he took this Chinese herb [oxymatrine], no more fevers. In the next two months, he went back to work, full time, and he's been three years in remission.

Source: here.



If what you are experiencing is the antiviral effects of oxymatrine kicking in, then this is a good sign, because that usually means your ME/CFS is going to get better after the fever is over.

 

[Hip]

All of Dr John Chia's conference presentations are now online as videos, and can be viewed for free (see here). In his videos, he talks a lot about oxymatrine.

For oxymatrine treatment, see Dr Chia's 2009 video at 45:40, and the 2010 video at 31:30.

 

[JohnnyMinnesota99]

Hello Hip,

Thanks a lot for your answer.

Well, yes, it's either a gastric flu or it's the immune system / antiviral effects. I don't have a fever, my temeprature is absolutely normal, but I feel weak and don't have energy. My gastrointestinal symptoms have improved to some extent (I can eat a bit), but I still feel nausea and dizziness every now and then. I will keep taking the Oxymatrine and will have to see what my condition will be like in the future. Last night, however, I felt a strong nausea and felt pretty bad. Then I went back to sleep. Sleep is an issue, by the way. At the moment I am sleeping long hours (last night: 11 hours with a interruption in the morning). I suppose this is due to the fact that I am feeling quite tired at the moment, having low energy levels.

All this started quite suddenly. On Tuesday (during the day) I felt good, having no problems at all. Then, at night, the gastrointestinal symptoms plus low energy level started. Well, my girlfriend didn't feel much of her gastrointestinal infection. She was fine after just one day, only having very slight symptoms.

Best wishes

 

[JohnnyMinnesota99]

Do you think it is possible that the immune booster Oxymatrine pushes the immune systen so that you feel stronger symptoms of an infection? So, could it be that I am suffering more severely from a possible gastric flu than my girlfriend since Oxymatrine increases the TH1 level, thus causing a stronger immune reaction? So actually, I am well again, but the Oxymatrine makes me feel the pain of the symptoms more strongly and for a longer time?

 

[Hip]

but I still feel nausea and dizziness every now and then.

Which type of oxymatrine are you taking: the White Tiger brand, the Alternative Medicines Solutions brand, or the Equilibrant brand?

I find every time I take a White Tiger oxymatrine tablet, I get dizziness. But I do not get this dizziness with the AMS brand. I believe this is because White Tiger also contains some matrine, as well as oxymatrine. And it is the matrine which causes the dizziness. AMS however is pure oxymatrine, with no matrine.

Do you think it is possible that the immune booster Oxymatrine pushes the immune systen so that you feel stronger symptoms of an infection?

This is exactly what Dr Chia says: he say that oxymatrine shifts the immune system into the Th1 mode, which is the mode used to fight viral infections. So the increased symptoms you feel on oxymatrine are the immune system fighting the virus, and clearing the virus from the body.

 

[JohnnyMinnesota99]

... so the question is what virus my immune system is fighting off: a chronic CVB5 infection or some gastrointestinal virus...

I am taking the brand AMS!

 

[Hip]

Enteroviruses like CVB5 live in the stomach and intestines (hence the name entero), as well as other places in the body.

 

[JohnnyMinnesota99]

I am realising that Oxymatrine might be a problem when contracting Coronavirus?! Severe disease processes are a problem when the lungs are inflammed and you end up suffering from pneumonia.

Is it generally good or bad when your immune system works at an elevated level because of TH1-increase?

 

[JohnnyMinnesota99]

"Enteroviruses like CVB5 live in the stomach and intestines (hence the name entero), as well as other places in the body."

For all I know, enteroviruses can also live in muscles?! That would explain the limb and/or joint pain many patients suffering from CFS.

 

[Hip]

I don't know whether oxymatrine might be helpful or harmful for coronavirus.

Numerous studies have shown enterovirus lives in the muscles of ME/CFS patients. In the brain too.

 

[JohnnyMinnesota99]

Hello everybody,

I created another thread to change the topic a bit and bring it to a more general level.

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/threads/my-oxymatrine-intake-and-my-personal-recovery.80893/

I would be please if you could take a look.

Like i said, I will always be happy to help!