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Seeking (pro?) help possible lifechanging detox I induced, i'm desparate

richvank

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Rich
I haven't kept up with the yasko forum, but a while back I got the sense that she was finding stool tests more useful to monitor metal excretion. the problem is the stool tests are significantly more expensive than urine tests. If I recall correctly, Professor Boyd Haley says the urine tests are worthless for this purpose, since metals are excreted in the stool.
Hi, aquarius.

Thanks for this information. I have not been following Amy's site very closely lately, either. I note that she has included all three of these tests in her new comprehensive test package. I presume that Boyd Haley means that most of the metals come out in the stools, since there is certainly some measured in the urine. I'll have to look into this more closely. Thanks again.

Best regards,

Rich
 

Vegas

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Can I ask others relating to chelation how someone even begins to diagnose mercury problems? Would there not be very serious, notable and permanent changes in cognitive functions? Just do not know where to start on that subject and as someone who uses spirulina and NAC regularly had me wondering.
There are a number of different ways to go about this:

1. Complete a Doctors' Data Hair Elements Test, and submit it to someone who can interpret this.
2. Provided you have no amalgam fillings in your mouth and recent exposures (flu shot, for example), purchase some DMSA & ALA, 25 mg, and take every three hours for 3 days and see if you notice any response to this, particularly when you start and end the "round" of chelation. Your symptomatic response will serve to confirm or deny the presence of toxicity. You may need to move to a higher dosage to be sure about this, but it should tell you what you need to know.

Neither of these are perfect, but a challenge test is not without its demerits.

You would likely have some cognitive dysfunction if you are mercury toxic, but there are exceptions. Any cognitive dysfunction is not likely permanent; it depends largely on what you do about it. Also, understand that the cognitive issues are in all likelihood not solely related to the neurotoxic effects of Hg. The secondary infections, inflammation and other indirect effects of Hg significantly contribute to the cognitive issues, at least that has been my experience.

If you get any noticeable response to large dosages of NAC or spirulina, this might be a clue that you have some Hg on board.
 

GhostGum

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Thanks Rich and Vegas, great information.

Makes me wonder if I have had some mercury issues because I have had very positive results to a vitamin A, C, E and selenium mix before, as well as success with spirulina in moderate doses, 4-8grams a day; the NAC I have only ever used 500gm a day. But never had any amalgams and over 10 years since a flu shot, so seems more likely just a positive response to these things for other reasons, candida/leaky gut for instance which was a serious problem for a while. May still have to consider testing, no point just wondering.
 

Freddd

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Ok, this is quite a big deal for me. I need to get back what I had. I honestly don't know why I didn't try to reach out for help sooner, but here goes.

I hope I'm posting in the right place. There seems to be some knowledgable people here, though self-taught (?) although what I'm about to write covers a bit more than glutathione, detoxification, and chronic fatigue, although I believe that that is at the heart of it. I know I need to find help somewhere, perhaps a specialist. If noone here knows what has been going down in what I'm about to describe, maybe there's some genius at work in a lab in a foreign country who can tell me everything. Hmm, I like those odds.

I am a 27 yr old, male. I have been diagnosed with aspergers syndrome since 14 when investigating my chronic fatigue, which also started at 14. I was also diagnosed with dyspraxia shortly after that.

I've for the longest time considered my fatigue to be my biggest limitation. Since around October 2010 or possibly a bit earlier, I decided I was going to experiment on myself with supplements in an attempt to cure my ailment, regardless of the risks. I had actually decided that my life is not worth living unless I get this fixed. I would rather live for another ten years at my maximum, unhobbled potential, than live to 90 with my chronic fatigue. That's how I came to feel about it because I'm achieving about 1% of my life's potential as I am right now. I know that deep down, without exaggeration.

I've tried a broad array of substances: some allege to target sleep and improving its quality, some are supposed to give me energy for when I am awake, etc. Some are natural substances, some are minerals, some are drugs.

In no particular order here are the things I've tried over the last year (purchased and introduced gradually, not at the same time):

chlorella
spirulina
Maca root
Amla berry powder
NAC
MSM
Vitamin C
Glycine
Glutamine
Methylcobalamin
Adenosylcobalamin (Dibencozide)
Methylfolate
B mega complex
Arginine
Piracetam
Aniracetam
Sulbutiamine
Phenibut
Nicotine (gum)
GABA
Guarana
Phosphatidylserine
Fish oil
ALCAR
Whey protein
Taurine
Theanine
Choline bitartrate
DMAE bitartrate
Trimethylglycine
ALA (lipoic acid)
Boron
Iodine
Selenium (SeMC)
Manganese
Zinc
Magnesium (citrate)
Boron (di-calcium borogluconate)
Lithium orotate
Coq10 (ubiquinone)
Rhodiola rosea
Ashwagandha
Red ginseng
Siberian ginseng
green tea extract
milk thistle extract
grape seed extract
ginkgo biloba extract

The majority of these have been in powder form, measured on digital scales and consumed in a beaker of water.

In addition I should mention a few other details about my life, just to help build what might to someone be an illustration (or just rorschach blobs, who knows).

1. 'tics' throughout my life. I had not brought my attention to bear on these until this year, as they're minor and usually not debilitating, just annoying. They come in a phase that lasts a day to a week or so, and then goes for at least a month. My dad has one himself (going bug-eyed). Some of mine are: scrunching my eyelids tight and hard until it presses my eyeballs inward; making a faint half-cough, half-cluck sound in the back of my throat; squinting, as if trying to reach the perfect width gap between my not-quite-shut eyelids that will somehow then satisfy me; and other such quirks.

2. Performing 'chants'. I would do them out loud only when believing myself to be alone, out of an appalling fear of embarassment. They are nonesense phrases usually derived from reality (like a tv show) but deliberately taken out of context that I latch onto and mutter to myself over and over in vigorous sing-song. It feels like there is something maniacal and/or infantile about it. Turns out my dad does this as well, something he's never admitted to anyone else before. It only came out when I told him about mine. He actually said he never mentioned it to his psychiatrist (he has depression) because he "thinks they'll lock him up". I wouldn't say I feel that about mine, though I'd feel excruciatingly embarrassed if someone did hear me murmuring gibberish like a clinically insane toddler who can barely speak. I've no idea why I do it, and i'm not crazy, it feels similar to the tic urges I suppose.

3. Intense social awkwardness that has gotten worse as I've gotten older, probably because of their being a wider maturation gap between me and others when it comes to social adjustment, a gap that i'm conscious of.

4. What I believe, introspectively, to be a significant impairment in executive function and short-term memory, that has worsened since getting CFS.

5. A general lack of fitness and vitality about myself from my earliest memories in P.E. at school, despite having a slim and athletic muscular build. Obese kids could outrun me. I'm so bad at swimming I almost drowned once.

6. Since getting CFS, if I wake up prematurely during the night I have this gross feeling in my guts. But I don't get it otherwise.

Another thing that has happened only 3 times in my life, but feels significant enough to mention, are episodes where I went extremely faint and turned blue at the lips. In every single case i was exposed to cold (i.e. frosty weather) and subsequently warmed up when entering a warm building, and had previously been doing physical exertion. It only occurs when all these elements are in place. I also incidentally got a sort-of fourth one the other day when I trecked through some snow to a warm house, but it wasn't nearly as intense, I just got a bit light-headed. One of the first three episodes happened before getting CFS, the other two after.

Now I've explained a bit about myself (in the ways that I think matter) I'll tell you why I'm here.

I don't remember the exact chronology of events, or what inspired them. I apologise for and regret my hazy memory; my fatigue is now back though not quite as bad. But certain factors (things taken at the right time in the right amount) came into alignment along with taking certain things on inspiration by certain articles i'd read, led to the most intense experience of my life.

I'll try to explain it with a timeline. This is derived from a logfile I have on my computer. I logged everything I took when I took it; unfortunately I was less consistent and punctual about logging my feelings, mental and physical.

11/nov/10: I first take MSM and NAC powder.

During the following weeks, I'd have a response to NAC and sometimes MSM, but it wasn't consistent. It was pretty either-or though. I'd feel 'lifted', and "happy without effort", a rather rare feeling. Othertimes, I'd get nothing. It was quite a significant change in me; people around me noticed.

On some occasions when taking quite high doses, my skin smells different. I theorise it's my skin sweating it out?

In later weeks and months I would no longer get this effect so consistently or blatantly.

20/jan/11: First mention of feeling 'icky'.
This doesn't mean it's the first time I actually felt this. For all I know I could have been feeling it the entire time i've had CFS--it boggles my own mind that I can't say for sure, but I can't seem to recall. I don't even remember if it predated the beginning of my supplement experiments. One might say the gross feeling I had in my guts when woken prematurely is a similar feeling, however.

Anyway, feeling 'icky' can be approximately described as a mixture of having a cold and having a hangover, but more subtle. A kind of gross feeling throughout my veins and organs. Usually accompanied by extra brain-fog.

25/jan/11: I mention neck cramp and stiffness, after taking milk thistle and MSM.

07/feb/11: I take spirulina and chlorella for the first time.

12/feb/11: I take ten grams of chlorella and ten grams of spirulina, and go absolutely bonkers. I get this raging, torrential energy that I have to express. I start leaping up and down on the spot to burn some of it off. Totally uncharacteristic of my usual fatigued self. It lasts several hours.

The following day I get the response a fraction as intensely, and from thereon little to nothing.

01/mar/11: I mention stiffness in neck and throat, and experiencing 'neck chills'. Again, I don't know if these are my first neck chills or my first mentioning them. I have a feeling I've had them on and off my whole life, but just never paid any attention to them, just like the tics. They've been fairly infrequent if that's so.

NOTE: Neck chills are a major indicator of what is to come. There is nothing more perculiar and characteristic of my issues. I have a feeling there's something very fundamental to every one of my problems: Aspergers, fatigue, dyspraxia, and the back of my neck and/or spine, or at least that's where it manifests as a physical sensation.

Neck chills are like a tic but different. Sometimes they're more like 'shudders'. Unlike tics, though, they're not something I need to 'get out', more they're something I try and encourage. If I feel a shudder coming on i'll encourage it, and start shrugging my shoulders to bring it out. Tics are irresistable but very annoying to me, but this just feels like something good happening...?

~14/may/11:
I realise that while I'd been taking things alleged to 'detoxify' the body, I never actually increased my intake of fluid. I think I was warded off by the skepticism posed by the 'mainstream' toward the idea of 'detoxifying' and so I did it half-assed.

So I decide to drink more water. Also my kidneys started growling a lot and sometimes throbbing slightly over the next few days. I would also wake to pee in the night.

18/may/11:
This is where it all starts. From my hazy memory this is what I remember:
I was trying to figure out what was causing my 'icky' feeling. Looking at my logs, it seemed to happen most (where I bothered to mention it in my logs) around the time I either took milk thistle, or a 'glutathione mix'. What gets me is that I never bothered to define what the cryptic 'glutathione mix' is. I guess I assumed I would remember. I think it at least contains, NAC, glutamine and glycine, and _possibly_ MSM and vitamin C.

Anyway, I'd had alsorts of hypotheses about why I felt 'ick', such as taking too much vitamin d3, too much fat in my diet, ...

One website I came across suggested that chronic dehydration can be a problem. It suggested that you can be chronically dehydrated without realising it and alsorts of complications can arise from it. I had no idea if it was a quack concept or not. But it was one of several things I read over the coming days that fed into my inspiration (or suggestability/hypochondria). I decided to drink more water and also looked up replacing electrolytes.

Another thing, again I can't clearly recall what prompted it but I started looking up sodium bicarbonate. I read how athletes would take it in the presence of NAC. I'm not sure if this is because bicarb breaks down to sodium in the presence of NAC, or what.... but I decided to try it. (At the time, I'd not read about the benefits of bicarb on the kidneys).

On this day, I took 10 grams of bicarb, and 6 grams of what I call 'salt' in my logfile, but is actually a 50/50 combination of sodium chloride and potassium chloride. I also take magnesium and calcium.

I drink a fair bit of water and it starts inducing the shuddering an unusual amount. I write in my diary (before taking bicarb, incidentally):
"I feel like my body is undergoing something. Closing my eyes I can feel it, the shuddering is some kind of process. Gonna have even more water."

On this day I also mention a 'pricking' feeling below my left nipple that reoccured several times throughout the day.

I also didn't eat for most of the day and then ate ravenously at the end of it.

19-22 (or 23rd, can't remember):
These days are similar to the 18th. 21st is when I first mention 'rubbing myself'. I read about NAC causing kidney stones... given how my kidneys felt the other day I decide to ramp up vitamin C intake.

I'd wake up in the night to pee several times on these days.

Basically, this lump of days is a mere echo of the first 'big day' which is either the 23rd or 24th. It boggles my mind that I logged so poorly about what I underwent that I can't even tell which was the first big day... I guess I was too self-absorbed.

23rd/24th:
From this day and the next 5 or so, I have some of the best and strangest days of my life.

Each day would play out in a very similar way, like there was some fixed process being carried out by my body.

I would wake up and take NAC on its own.

I would drink water, a LOT of water, of amounts that are dangerous, though I was careful to replace electrolytes.

I responded to the water as if the water itself was the supplement.

My body would tense up and start shivering. I'd get neck chills up the wazoo. It felt like something EXTREMELY GOOD was happening to me.

Then I'd get bursts of mania. I'd cackle and laugh like the Joker. It was like a combination of happiness and RAGE. It felt like I was seeing the back of some looming opressor and frustrator of my life, at a subconscious level, though the reaction felt more reflexive than psychological... it's hard to say how much of it was just the involuntary firing of my nervous system and how much of it was a psychological reaction. It almost felt like the tearful emotion of standing over the dead body you had killed of someone who had tortured you for years. At teh time of it happening, though, I wasn't this introspective about it. I felt good, but with that good feeling 'tainted', if that's the word, by a ruefulness of all the 'not good' that preceded it.

I'd feel light as a feather... it feels like the wrong thing to say because I felt anger, but I felt really 'lifted'. I often described my chronic fatigue as like having a weight on my shoulders, like a dark heavy shroud. I'd leep around the house. I'd still be rubbing myself and shuddering during all this. Sometimes I'd grit my teeth and let out a low scream, but that felt good too, like needing to let off steam.

This 'mania' would only last a few minutes, almost in greeting of the process that has barely taken off.

I'd calm down emotionally, then, and experience a more physical process, that felt very good. I'd tremor around various parts of my body. I'd rub--it wasn't involuntary, but there was an urge to do it, and it felt good. It was pretty much like massaging myself.

I'd rub, and slap, parts of my body. Hours later I'd experience pricking and needling and jabbing in various points. I'd thump them and kneed my muscles, and it felt good to do it. SOmetimes I'd burst out laughing in an 'insane' way (not that i felt insane, it'd just _sound_ like the laugh of a madman to a listener). It was torrential giddiness.

I mention in my notes how it almost seems the water itself is a supplement. The more I drink the more intensely I shudder, not just in my neck but all over the body, and more manic I feel.

After about the fifth or sixth hour, I'd experience something I call 'brain booting up'. I'm not sure if it was my blood volume/fluid reaching a certain level that triggers it or what, but it made the 'lifted' feeling I felt earlier feel like a joke. It was like I was becoming sentient for the first time. IT was very either-or and abrupt, like snapping on a light switch. It felt a bit like piracetam inconsistently felt to me, times a million, without any of the crap. I felt like a god, just comparitively to how I was before. When I tried to discuss it on an internet forum later it was dubbed 'hypomania' to me, but I think I was merely reaching a level of brain activity that some sickness was supressing and is actually my normal level, and my glee at discovering such mental functioning for the first time looked manic.

I tried playing a video game, street fighter, on my computer. I normally fight against online opponents and have a 20% win ratio at best. I'm absolutely terrible because I can't process what's going on properly, the information is going by too fast. Doesn't stop me from playing, though; I just get very distressed and wound up when I lose.

From the first fight, I won ten fights in a row and unlocked an achievement, which previously would have been impossible. What's more it felt easy. I felt like a cowboy twirling his gun. I felt like a genius. I had a heady feeling of power. I felt like the person I always felt I could be but it somehow had eluded me. I felt FURIOUS and ANGRY that this had been denied to me, and furious that I couldn't direct my fury at anyone since it's a nondeterminate nonentity that has stood in my way. But if this cowboy had to shoot anyone it would be the medical system that has failed me.

It could be pure suggestion on my part, but I also started feeling like the horse-whisperer of my supplements. It was like I could feel exactly how many milligrams of what to dole out for myself. I remember specifically measuring out some magnesium citrate powder and a certain number felt exactly right. I also was very picky about foods. I felt far more intense feelings of steering away from some foods and stuffing my face with others. I felt like I was totally in tune with my body and knew exactly what it needed.

On the second day of this happening (probably the 24th but maybe 25th), it went into the twilight zone, so to speak. The day played out just like the previous. All the 'detox days' do. I reached this 'brain-booting' point once again late afternoon/evening (I found it very weird how I was back to square 1 in the morning and had to kick off the whole process again, but it became routinely like this). I'd got a massaging tool out this time, lay it on the floor and ran my back up and down it like a cheese-grater. It felt insanely good.

Anyway, on the second day when the 'brain-booting' happened, it eventually caused me to go into a trance. My theory, looking back on it, is that my mind saw it as an opportunity to reassess its content at this new level of functioning, while it had the chance to do so.

My mind turned entirely inward, and I started going through all my mental filing folders. My head hit the pillow and I started murmuring out loud affirmations, things like "Yes." "No", "That's so", "I think so", "I doubt that", "Probably", "I suppose". I was doing this for over an hour.

I've spent the last 5 years or so since I dropped out of college (due to fatigue problems) introspecting and i've written over a million words just analysing my thought processes. I think this was kind of mating of my physiological and psychological issues. It was a culmination of the work I'd tried to put in to what I perceived as my neuroses. What I think my mind was doing in this trance was reassessing all of its contents and stamping new labels on things or moving them around.

I don't know, really. That's just my guess. It was the strangest thing that's EVER happened to me, though, outside of dreams. It only happened this one day, though I did experience the 'brain booting' a few more times.

On the following days, I could not see anything going wrong with this. I thoguht I was on the road to more than any recovery I could ever have imagined. I started calling this whole process 'detox symptoms' just because I had nothing else to go by. It was totally characterised by shuddering and neck chills and a mood lift, as like the beginning of a rocket taking off.

Near the end of the months, at an end of a day spent entirely 'detoxing', I would go to bed with my spine feeling like lead (this didn't happen on the first intense days including the one where I went into a trance, but the days immediately after). I got this about three times. It was the most perculiar feeling. It kind of frightened me but it didn't feel bad at all, just strange. My theory at the time was that all those pricking feelings were heavy metals or toxins of some sort lodged in my tissues, and the increase in blood volume was causing the detoxifying substances to penetrate deeper tissues, eventually reaching my spine. On a much later day after several upsets I got this pricking feeling in my BRAIN, but this only happened once.

But by the 28th, I think, things were already starting to take a very slight tilt downward. The symptoms were less intense.

On one day I take msm with the NAC, and weirdly the symptoms don't kick off like they did the previous day. It's almost like the day was upside down: the good feeling I normally got at the end of the day, started at the beginning. It was definitely the taking the MSM that made the difference and I don't understand it.

01/June/11:
I took a bath on this day. I get out of the bath feeling great. 20 minutes later, I experience a huge crash. I feel causelessly anxious and apprehensive, almost frightened. I spend hours thinking it's psychological, only to remember at night that I seem to sweat out NAC and/or MSM or sulphur in my pores. Not to mention sodium, which is what I'm retaining all the water with. I don't know what specifically happened but it showed that either a depletion of those sulphuric/detoxing compounds, or a decrease in fluid retention, or both, from the hot bath, caused a crash. IT was an extra affirmation of the causality of it all. I spent the rest of the day miserably depressed and upset.

05/June/11:
I'm becoming downright aggravated that my symptoms have been dropping off. I felt like my lifeline had been taken away. On this day I realise I'd tapered off my intake of bicarb unconsciously, perhaps out of fear of what I might be doing to myself and wanting to introduce some prudence. I actually never connected the intake of the bicarb as having anything to do with my symptoms, at the time. I viewed it as purely incidental. I take a 5 gram lump and the detox symptoms kick off immediately, resulting in another day of the same kind of episode. It was like it had never gone away.

I can't recall the timeline from hereon very well and my logfiles are tiresome to process (as you can surmise I have chronic fatigue as much as ever, right now, so this story doesn't have a happy ending).

Anyway, over the next week or two I feel healthier then ever. I walk upright, feel more empathy, talk to others like a human being and adult. I feel tall and strong--whereas befoer I felt like a worm in comparison. I command respect and attention from others just with my voice. I feel attractive, I get attention from the opposite sex. I like myself. I experience no anxiety.

Other problems righted themselves too: a dysuria I was having cleared up, and my handwriting (dysgraphia, from the dyspraxia) improved drastically. I actually got one of those jabbing feelings I mentioned earlier, where my prostate was!

People I know tell me I seem more caring and more _normal_. I've always been caring, though, I've just been impaired in my ability to show it. That asperger's you know (it sickens me that some people who have it actually think aspergers is a good thing to have and wouldn't want to be cured of it, but i think they're just ignorant and misunderstanding its true nature). Incidentally I read an article that suggests a genetic link between autism and chronic fatigue. Hmm.

I had mettle, I had fitness, I felt like everything was working correctly. You don't know what kind of person I was... or maybe you do. I was ridiculously emotionally and physically dependant and fragile, even before chronic fatigue. Now I felt like someone who could take the burden of someone else's emotions and make them feel better. A rock for others to lean on, not some drab seaweed flung over an unwilling rock that is another person. Night and day feels like an understatement of the difference. I felt like a leader of men, whereas befoer I was someone who tried not to draw attention from anybody for fear of being exposed as a pushover and social fraud.

I always felt like unactualised potential was the theme of my life. I felt like my true ability always eluded me. I believe it was cognitive impairment when it came to memory and information processing. My intellect was and is very high, but it was like funnelling an ocean through a drinking straw. It was maddeningly frustrating. Part of my brain just refused to work for me.

Of course I didn't graduate to the point where I really put any of this newfound capability into practice. The 'detox episodes' became more and more infrequent and less short lived, although I'd have the occasional really great day among many ordinary days.

I had a number of theories of what i was doing to myself, but I really didn't have the expertise to figure it out and why it had now stopped. It was a combination of peristance and lucky physiological factors that unlocked what happened to me, I think. I wanted to seek out expert help but didn't know where to begin, and procrastinated endlessly about it. I figured if I went to my doctor I wouldn't know where to begin explaining (look at the length of this post) and he'd probably turn his nose up at it or not have the faintest idea what to do with the information. But I never put it to the test.

Several times I thought I had found the 'missing link'. I sporadically reintroduced thigns I'd stopped taking and sometimes would think it was bringing the symptoms backed, but it was a mere echo of what happened before. I remember reintroducing dextrose (I took these with the 'electrolytes' the first few days where I got th symptoms) and that also brought it back a bit like the bicarb did, but not as intensely.

The last time I had a very blatant detox episode, was 26/july, but that still only lasted from afternoon to evening. It had been at least a week since the previous episode. I remember I was out at a shop and felt like I was walking on air, and several people turned and smiled at me. I felt like I wanted to grab life by the balls.

Then I went home and the next day it was all gone. On the end of that day I even mentioning "feeling the ick descending on my brain".

Later on I even describe the shuddering/detox symptoms as 'ick going the right way' and this other feeling, totally new and terrifying, of 'ick going the wrong way'. It feels like poison reentering me. As I said, completely new. What's weird is that it takes little provocation to go either way, like it's fence-straddling. My physiological state surely is drastically differing from what it was earlier. Maybe I don't know and few people know what the repercussions are of long term high intake of bicarb, salt, fluid, or what have you...

I apologise for the length/convolutedness of this post. I'm all over the place and my memory is hazy, I may even repeat myself.

That's not to say after that last episode, I didn't experience anything like it since, it was just like the same thing taking place over the course of an hour rather than a whole day, and at about a quarter the intensity.

I felt like something was missing from me. At one point it felt like my brain was just fried. I concluded it highly possible that I had deplored reserves of something(s) and that was preventing me from continuing. I learned about the importance of taking molybdenum and selenium with NAC, and Zinc too. Wish I knew earlier.

I started bringing things back. I brought back caffeine too, which I'd stopped taking. THis last month I drew up a spreadsheet of everything I took the 8 days before and after the 18th of May, and reintroduced most of them. I started picking up again but didn't really get any detox symptoms again. I went from amoeba to ant. My neck chills started coming back though; they had dissapeared completely when I most felt 'something missing'.

According to the spreadsheet I was taking raw eggs with milk thistle around the time I had the episodes, also a fair bit of piracetam that i'd since cut out... oh, and I was taking a fair bit of methylcobalamin, though inconsistently.

This last three weeks I bought a LOT of methylcobalamin and started taking 3x 5mg tabs a day, sublingual. The only thing it's done so far is reduce my sleep requirements significantly. I abused this without restraint, staying up late and getting up early. I think I gravitate toward night-owl behaviour because I can't stand being cramped in a house with two other people and night is when it feels like the house is empty.

What I don't get is how all this was 'detox', since it was such an abrupt, either-or difference when my brain 'booted up', as well as whether a detox episode was happening at all. I'd feel like a god at the end of the day, and like my usual mediocre self the following morning. At the end of May, my body was primed for whatever the hell it had been doing. Perhaps months of taking NAC and MSM with inadequate fluid had filled my body with crap and taking bicarb which assisted my kidneys (or, got broke down to sodium in the bloodstream and helped 'pull out' what was in the cells--I don't know enough about human physiology to know if that's even possible) and retaining lots of water helped flush it out in a rush... but if all that crap is now gone, why do I not have the superman (or just normal man) brain? I don't think this is over at all. I still get the neck shudders. I know detoxing is supposed to take months... maybe what I did caused it to happen in days. But why do I feel like hell now? If it's detox, why do I feel like a different man in the space of a few hours? Why do I feel a million times happier in a few minutes of downing over a litre of water?

Anyway, I'd rather break this off now than ramble on without direction or purpose, if someone starts throwing questions at me it will reorientate me or help trigger my memory where I've forgotten to mention something. I hope I haven't confused whoever is reading this.

Hoping desparately for help
Rob
Hi Rob,

Just as a quicky, and I will be around now, get rid of the NAC, glutamin and Whey. Thes boost glutathione which cause what is common called "detox" which is actually a severe induced methylfolate deficiency at fist and then a progressively worse adb12/mb12/Metafolin deficiency. After stopping these items take 8 mg 3 times a day of methyfolate until "detox" symptoms go away and then come down to a more usual Metafolin dose perhaps as much as 8mg/day but maybe no more than 800mcg. Also get rid of folic acid and folinic acid that can both cause paradoxical folate deficiency with the same symptoms as the "detox". Treeatment is the same. It takes several days for the folicv acid/folinic acid to flush from the body and several weeks for the gltutathione to do so.
 
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Hi Rob,

Just as a quicky, and I will be around now, get rid of the NAC, glutamin and Whey. Thes boost glutathione which cause what is common called "detox" which is actually a severe induced methylfolate deficiency at fist and then a progressively worse adb12/mb12/Metafolin deficiency. After stopping these items take 8 mg 3 times a day of methyfolate until "detox" symptoms go away and then come down to a more usual Metafolin dose perhaps as much as 8mg/day but maybe no more than 800mcg. Also get rid of folic acid and folinic acid that can both cause paradoxical folate deficiency with the same symptoms as the "detox". Treeatment is the same. It takes several days for the folicv acid/folinic acid to flush from the body and several weeks for the gltutathione to do so.
You diagnosed that without hesitation. How is it that the metafolin deficiency procured measurable cognitive improvements, social improvements that were observable to others, and health improvements? To clarify: NAC, glutamine and whey achieved none of this by themselves. Noone has explained to me why it required inordinate (multi-litre) doses of water, sodium bicarbonate, potassium chloride and sodium chloride and glucose, and that without these none of the reaction happens. Peoples detox reactions are usually negative; they feel worse when taking, for instance, mercury chelators or 'mobilisers', or glutathione precursors.

My own hypothesis is that there was some kind of "syphon" going on that literally started eliminating it through the kidneys in vast quantities. I was waking up to pee during the night, so my vasopressin must have taken a nosedive or so... I'm still wondering about the theory of serum NAC and sodium bicarbonate reacting to cause a slow steady rise in sodium levels. I suppose noone is equipped to answer the exact nature of what was going on, as i'm the first person to perform the experiment and combine these factors. Or prove me wrong, please.

I am already supplementing Methylb12 and methylfolate in large doses. All I know is that the triggers people are advising me against brought on a reaction that felt wholely and profoundly good in a very, very rapid way (the onset would occur in minutes). And people are telling me what was happening is that I'm transporting loads of mercury into my brain and I need to stop, or i'm vastly deploring reserves of a certain vitamin... if that's true then my body's inner sense of what's good or bad for it is totally schizophrenic. I'm not saying they're wrong, but the idea of levels of a neurotoxin rising in my brain doesn't correlate to the across-the-board improvements in every hobbled area of my life, from fatigue to social issues to handwriting to burning sensations after peeing, all 'magically' correcting themselves. For crying out loud, I felt normal. Normal. That's something I've never had before, ever. Nor have I ever enjoyed social interaction for its own sake before--ever. I feel angry at what I've missed out on. Whatever I did to myself gave me a taste of this for the first time in my life. If this is what mercury poisoning or methylfolate deficiency is, I want to cause it even more. :innocent1:

Obviously it isn't, but if there's some distinction to be drawn between the positive effects and the longer-term negative effects, then please draw it. Saying 'your detox symptoms are a metafolin deficiency' is saying that all those aformentioned good things, auto-righting of all my health issues, are all due to metafolin deficiency. That sounds inane, and I hope wasn't what was meant. Or if it is, please explain. People seem to be overlooking the fact that I tried something a bit more radical than just taking glutathione precursors; I was doing that for months before the 'detox symptoms' occured.

One thing I will do is get rid of my 1 amalgam. I've read enough on it to know that it can't be any good. Fortunately it's at the rear of my mouth and I can just have the tooth pulled, to minimize the risk.
 

Freddd

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You diagnosed that without hesitation. How is it that the metafolin deficiency procured measurable cognitive improvements, social improvements that were observable to others, and health improvements? To clarify: NAC, glutamine and whey achieved none of this by themselves. Noone has explained to me why it required inordinate (multi-litre) doses of water, sodium bicarbonate, potassium chloride and sodium chloride and glucose, and that without these none of the reaction happens. Peoples detox reactions are usually negative; they feel worse when taking, for instance, mercury chelators or 'mobilisers', or glutathione precursors.

My own hypothesis is that there was some kind of "syphon" going on that literally started eliminating it through the kidneys in vast quantities. I was waking up to pee during the night, so my vasopressin must have taken a nosedive or so... I'm still wondering about the theory of serum NAC and sodium bicarbonate reacting to cause a slow steady rise in sodium levels. I suppose noone is equipped to answer the exact nature of what was going on, as i'm the first person to perform the experiment and combine these factors. Or prove me wrong, please.

I am already supplementing Methylb12 and methylfolate in large doses. All I know is that the triggers people are advising me against brought on a reaction that felt wholely and profoundly good in a very, very rapid way (the onset would occur in minutes). And people are telling me what was happening is that I'm transporting loads of mercury into my brain and I need to stop, or i'm vastly deploring reserves of a certain vitamin... if that's true then my body's inner sense of what's good or bad for it is totally schizophrenic. I'm not saying they're wrong, but the idea of levels of a neurotoxin rising in my brain doesn't correlate to the across-the-board improvements in every hobbled area of my life, from fatigue to social issues to handwriting to burning sensations after peeing, all 'magically' correcting themselves. For crying out loud, I felt normal. Normal. That's something I've never had before, ever. Nor have I ever enjoyed social interaction for its own sake before--ever. I feel angry at what I've missed out on. Whatever I did to myself gave me a taste of this for the first time in my life. If this is what mercury poisoning or methylfolate deficiency is, I want to cause it even more. :innocent1:

Obviously it isn't, but if there's some distinction to be drawn between the positive effects and the longer-term negative effects, then please draw it. Saying 'your detox symptoms are a metafolin deficiency' is saying that all those aformentioned good things, auto-righting of all my health issues, are all due to metafolin deficiency. That sounds inane, and I hope wasn't what was meant. Or if it is, please explain. People seem to be overlooking the fact that I tried something a bit more radical than just taking glutathione precursors; I was doing that for months before the 'detox symptoms' occured.

One thing I will do is get rid of my 1 amalgam. I've read enough on it to know that it can't be any good. Fortunately it's at the rear of my mouth and I can just have the tooth pulled, to minimize the risk.

Hi Forbius,

When people complain of certain things they almost always have certain offending items that they are using. It's not a sure thing, it's a percentage things. Many times remvoing those items and taking the suitable counteracting doses of Metafolin and mb12/adb12 will correct the problems starting in hours. There are no gurantees on the individual situation. When people are taking NAC, glutathione (precursors), un-denatured whey and complain of a certain set of detox symptoms , the high probability answer is induced folate deficiency. However, if elliminating the offending items and taking the reversal agents then there are other much lower probabilty answers. On the other hand if they are not taking those items and are taking any of a number of b12, folate and several other items and are having successful methylation and healing startup and have a different set of "detox" symptoms it is likely to be low potassium. As the symptom sets are quite different except for some overlap, the two would not normally be confused. This has come about by watching lots of people's responses and the responses to making the changes. It's funny that those certain things show up over and over even if they are not being taken intentionally and then the symptoms are corrected by the Metafolin and b12s, it happens over and over. Yes, there are exceptions. The only way a person will ever know is to test the hypothesis. In this real life game of YOU BET YOUR LIFE I try to place my bet on the things that work best and most often. The people that have immediate strong response to mb12/adb12/metafolin are the ones that are very likely to heal substantially in a year. Some prescription drugs, perhaps 10 or so, block folate and cause induced deficiencies. Certain supplements also do that.

I'm going to describe what a cycle of induced folate deficiency of the paradoxical variety is like for me. The form induced by NAC was more severe faster but otherwise identical. As it results in return of symptoms if a peron has made progress with mb12/adb12/metafolin or no change at all if the symptoms are already bad, how it manifests is variable. The subset of folate deficiency synptoms and their onset goes like this for me. Day 2 - angular cheilitis starts up getting worse fast. Joint and muscle pain starts worsening. I start retaining water. Day 4 - IBS get started (as this is now only from paradoxical folate deficiency for me I elliminate most veggies for a few days and cut back after that), 2 days after cutback the cheiltis starts to fade. 3 days after cutback the water starts to pour off of me again, as much as 10 pounds in 2 days. With it goes potassium and I have to increase potassium or I get wild muscle spasms in my legs, heart arrythmias and mood changes. 5 days after cutback the IBS is suddenly decreasing and gone with 10 days, about the same as the cheilitis.
 
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Hi Forbius,

When people complain of certain things they almost always have certain offending items that they are using. It's not a sure thing, it's a percentage things. Many times remvoing those items and taking the suitable counteracting doses of Metafolin and mb12/adb12 will correct the problems starting in hours. There are no gurantees on the individual situation. When people are taking NAC, glutathione (precursors), un-denatured whey and complain of a certain set of detox symptoms , the high probability answer is induced folate deficiency. However, if elliminating the offending items and taking the reversal agents then there are other much lower probabilty answers. On the other hand if they are not taking those items and are taking any of a number of b12, folate and several other items and are having successful methylation and healing startup and have a different set of "detox" symptoms it is likely to be low potassium. As the symptom sets are quite different except for some overlap, the two would not normally be confused. This has come about by watching lots of people's responses and the responses to making the changes. It's funny that those certain things show up over and over even if they are not being taken intentionally and then the symptoms are corrected by the Metafolin and b12s, it happens over and over. Yes, there are exceptions. The only way a person will ever know is to test the hypothesis. In this real life game of YOU BET YOUR LIFE I try to place my bet on the things that work best and most often. The people that have immediate strong response to mb12/adb12/metafolin are the ones that are very likely to heal substantially in a year. Some prescription drugs, perhaps 10 or so, block folate and cause induced deficiencies. Certain supplements also do that.

I'm going to describe what a cycle of induced folate deficiency of the paradoxical variety is like for me. The form induced by NAC was more severe faster but otherwise identical. As it results in return of symptoms if a peron has made progress with mb12/adb12/metafolin or no change at all if the symptoms are already bad, how it manifests is variable. The subset of folate deficiency synptoms and their onset goes like this for me. Day 2 - angular cheilitis starts up getting worse fast. Joint and muscle pain starts worsening. I start retaining water. Day 4 - IBS get started (as this is now only from paradoxical folate deficiency for me I elliminate most veggies for a few days and cut back after that), 2 days after cutback the cheiltis starts to fade. 3 days after cutback the water starts to pour off of me again, as much as 10 pounds in 2 days. With it goes potassium and I have to increase potassium or I get wild muscle spasms in my legs, heart arrythmias and mood changes. 5 days after cutback the IBS is suddenly decreasing and gone with 10 days, about the same as the cheilitis.

Sorry, this reads like you haven't even read what I wrote.
 

Freddd

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Sorry, this reads like you haven't even read what I wrote.

HI Forbius,

I would say the same thing, that you don't really "get" what I am saying, maybe becasue you din't think it is "detox". I don't think it is detox either, in any real sense, just an overloaded application of the word.

Now if that isn't where the non-understanding is coming in, then I really am not getting what you are saying. I don't find it clear. I was trying to explain that the word "detox" isn't about anything actually detoxing here, but rather are other things that are frequently happening and called that.

So Now that you see how I am misunderstanding what you are trying to get across, how about trying to explain what you are trying to say again as I don't appear to understand it.
 
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HI Forbius,

I would say the same thing, that you don't really "get" what I am saying, maybe becasue you din't think it is "detox". I don't think it is detox either, in any real sense, just an overloaded application of the word.

Now if that isn't where the non-understanding is coming in, then I really am not getting what you are saying. I don't find it clear. I was trying to explain that the word "detox" isn't about anything actually detoxing here, but rather are other things that are frequently happening and called that.

So Now that you see how I am misunderstanding what you are trying to get across, how about trying to explain what you are trying to say again as I don't appear to understand it.
You said my reactions were down to folate depletion, and I explained how that doesn't fit. Even if there is folate depletion occuring (and you suggest that it unerringly occurs when taking NAC), such depletion doesn't occount for the life-altering and far-reaching benefits to my life that I received for a time, only you seemed to suggest that it does. Your writing reads like you didn't read what I wrote because it's like you didn't even notice my recounting the profundity of the reactions, or the fact that they never occured solely in the presence of the things you say cause folate depletion, but with other key ingredients that are never counted among the "certain offending items" you speak of. Can you tell me if you read the entire of my OP? It would explain a bit if you had merely skimmed it.

I notice b12 and folate is the thing you write about most. I have other people telling me i'm a classic case for ld mercury poisoning. Would you disagree with that?
 

Freddd

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You said my reactions were down to folate depletion, and I explained how that doesn't fit. Even if there is folate depletion occuring (and you suggest that it unerringly occurs when taking NAC), such depletion doesn't occount for the life-altering and far-reaching benefits to my life that I received for a time, only you seemed to suggest that it does. Your writing reads like you didn't read what I wrote because it's like you didn't even notice my recounting the profundity of the reactions, or the fact that they never occured solely in the presence of the things you say cause folate depletion, but with other key ingredients that are never counted among the "certain offending items" you speak of. Can you tell me if you read the entire of my OP? It would explain a bit if you had merely skimmed it.

I notice b12 and folate is the thing you write about most. I have other people telling me i'm a classic case for ld mercury poisoning. Would you disagree with that?
Hi Forbius,

Here is where we gget into the tremendous overlap of symptoms subject to many interpretations.

First I want to say that the only way to KNOW whether anybody is having any paradoxical folate deficiency issues is to trial with metafolin or folic acid and see if the two produce different results. Second, that on the glutahtione, there are ill effects noticed in people who have first had a year of great healing with adb12/mb12/Methylfolate with maybe 100+ symptoms dimishing a lot or ven going away and then, when the glutathione or NAc or whatever is started to see if those symptoms come back.

I have no knowledge whether "unerringly occurs when taking NAC" or not. Right now I'm trying to find the conditions as to whether it can be perceived or not and that takes a certain kind of comparison.

If a person doesn't meet that precondition the negative effects may not be pecveivable leaving just what appear to be positive effects. I know that the first few days on the glutathione certain thaings did feel better at the same time other tjhings were changing that turbed out to be a problem after long enough duration to see direction. So, glutathione decreased some pain for me. That turned out to be truninbg the nerves back odff and then damaging them to the point of numbness, but the PAIN DID DECREASE. The mb12, adb12 and Methylfolate turn on the nerves making all the pains and discomforts more obvious and felt. Glutathione turns off this awareness increasing comfort. In the early part of active b12 usage there is a brightening of things with more energy. There is an increasing ATP. Some people find these things produce anxiety and feel intolerable. Glutathione can turn these off and stops further increments of adb12 into the mitochondria and so stops ATP increase and these things can feel better while functioning worse.

I distinguish between feeling better, or maybe" less worse" from increasing nervous transmission and ATP and having the nerves and mitochondria functioning better.

Then lets consider mercury. Others have noted in various studies and things on mercury that 80% of the mercury toxic symptoms are exactly the same as mb12 deficiency symptoms. Now 50% of the population has at least some of those symptoms from lack of mb12 and respond to mb12 and when mild often see prompt start of removal of those symptoms. SOme tiny fraction of th population has enough mercury in their body to have toxic effects. Some are hypersensitive to mercury an other substances. Low methylfolate and low mb12 cause hypersensitivity such as MCS. Some claim that mercury can methylate from mb12. In doing so it destroys the functioning of the mb12 and could be a cause of said mb12 deficiency symptoms from mercury. This destroying of mnb12 is something that can happen, it would appear, at mercury levels far below any toxic level. If 10mcg of mb12 are destroyed per day they person will go into deficiency if they are not supplementing. If mecury can indeed disable mb12 it becomes mobilized and subject to removal by the liver which occurs at 1% of the mobilized mercury per day, having an established by research hserum half life of 71 days.

Japan had huge mercury problems in the 1950s. They also researched mb12. They are the only country that uses mb12 as the official b12. They also use 550pg/ml as the low cobalamin alert level, insrtead of 160pg/ml in the USA and UK. ANd they are also a country with an Alzheimer's rate of 20% of that in the USA and UK. They started studying the neurological effects of mb12 and deficiency while the USA and UK researchers were chasing their tails "proving" that cyanocbl and hydroxcbl reduces MCV. This proof is statistical because cyanocbl and hycbl work so poorly. Being used to working with drugs that barely affect a "significant" number of people, it didn't bother them that cycbl and hycbl worked so poorly.

One of the possible genetic things that links a whole lot of diseases together is that CFS, FMS, ALS, MS, ALZHEIMER'S, AUTISM, PARKINSON'S, SUPRA NUCLEAR PALSY all have low cerebral spinal fluid cobalamin regardless of body level. Various of these diseases have also been tested for elevated HCY and elevated MMA in the CSF. Various of these have one or the other or both elevated MMA/HCY specifying which type of cobalamin is low. I don't believe that low CSF cobalamin and lots of CNS symptoms are unrelated. Folate is critical in this too in multiple ways. Paradoxical folate deficiency appears to be relatively mild and intermittant compared to the hard folate deficiencies some drugs and supplements can cause. It may be more common from medical drugs then anything else.

So, all this comes into play. All I was suggesting to you is that if you were to do an A-B set of trials, repeated a few times you would know for sure what was going on.

In any case I am working on a questionaire that is going to attempt to get at some of these things. I'll be posting a development version shortly, which will need input from people with and without the symptoms involved adding things that need to be considered and elliminating items that don't indicate anything.

entire of my OP

I don't know whar "OP" means. The only thing of yours I read is what I read is on this page and it doesn't really connect with me as exactly what you mean. That appears to go both directions with you and me. We use language differently enough from each other that we are each unclear to the other. So some effort needs to be made for us to understand each other. I'm sure we can hash out meaning if we work at it.
 
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Not got time for a full reply right now but OP = original post.

I'm not sure why we wouldn't have a common vocabulary, we're both speaking english...

EDIT: The thread "Exercise as detox" is interesting to me. I don'tk now why I failed to mention it, but one thing I was doing leading up to the first major detox (or 'detox') episode was exercising on a stepping machine every single day. As soon as I had my first episode I stopped it and haven't done it since, since I felt my body needed to undergo something and I didn't want to direct any energy away from the process. Maybe there's a causal correlation between stopping exercise and the eventual drop-off of symptoms... or not...
 

Freddd

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Not got time for a full reply right now but OP = original post.

I'm not sure why we wouldn't have a common vocabulary, we're both speaking english...

EDIT: The thread "Exercise as detox" is interesting to me. I don'tk now why I failed to mention it, but one thing I was doing leading up to the first major detox (or 'detox') episode was exercising on a stepping machine every single day. As soon as I had my first episode I stopped it and haven't done it since, since I felt my body needed to undergo something and I didn't want to direct any energy away from the process. Maybe there's a causal correlation between stopping exercise and the eventual drop-off of symptoms... or not...
Hi Forbius,

I re-read your post again.

Please define "detox" and the symptoms it casues. That word has so many different meanings that it is basically useless without defining it. Otherwise it just confuses everything. When used in conjuntion with NAC or glutathione, most of the time it means induced folate deficiency. If folic acid or folinic acid are used it may mean paradoxical folate deficiency. When usewd wirth mb12, adb12, metafolin or some other combos it usually means "induced potassium deficiency". So start by defining this term and giving the symptoms you are attributing to it.
 
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Please define "detox" and the symptoms it casues.
I don't know how I missed this. I did get the impression you saw the phrase "detox symptoms" and assumed it in the way you use the phrase. I've looked at some of your older posts and I see where you use the exact same term, but you use it to describe something wholely negative, both in the way its subjectively experienced and the actual physical cause you explain it by (to do with glutathione binding to b12 and causing a b12 deficiency if I remember right...).

For me, when I use the phrase 'detox symptoms' it's the opposite. I don't know how to explain without repeating myself, though. But I wonder if I could have absolutely no problem with glutathione precursors and that my physiology is actually dissimilar to yours, which would make it harder for you to help me. I get periodic chills and shudders in my neck and back, and my gut feeling is that all my problems pivot around this. The (good) detox symptoms I get all seem to involve these shudders ramping up. Fluid balance seems a very important factor. At the last week of May 2011, I managed to luckily hit on some right combination of factors that brought on a torrential reaction in my body that felt subjectively, wholely positive and was in no way subtle like my earlier experiences with NAC, but was an experience like I can only imagine hard drugs like ecstasy would recreate (not that i've tried them). I felt super super powerful and/or normal, felt a huge amount of blood go to my head, and experienced very measurable and unsubtle cognitive improvements. I felt like laughing in the face all of the difficulties i've faced in life up to that point.

I had been taking glutathione precursors for over 6 months prior to that and I wasn't experiencing any kind of 'come down' from them. I identify electrolytes and bicarbonate as being essential to the reaction I induced, plus plenty of fluid, but possibly also many other things I was taking around that time were also significant. After the reactions I shed a lot of the things I was taking, and perhaps that's why the reactions became less and less intense.

I don't know what to say. I do know my hope in getting any kind of answers from this thread hasn't been fulfilled. I felt like a lot of people read my OP poorly and didn't address my points well... that's not a knock against them, I just didn't foresee at the time that I was speaking to people who are mostly a lot tireder than I have been. I got a few PMs where people would say "I've had your experience..." and proceed to describe something that sounds nothing like it. Are you someone who has beaten your CFS?

If the answer lies in everything I was taking, I could post excerpts of my logs (I log everything I take and sometimes describe how i feel) the 14 days leading up to and after the intense reaction episodes...

EDIT:

This may answer your request to 'describe detox', quoting my original post. This is when detox would last a whole day though. As time has gone on, the frequency, duration and intensity of these episodes have grown less. Now I still get the 'detox episodes' but they're about once every few weeks, last about 30 minutes and are a tiny fraction of the intensity I describe below:

Each day would play out in a very similar way, like there was some fixed process being carried out by my body.

I would wake up and take NAC on its own.

I would drink water, a LOT of water, of amounts that are dangerous, though I was careful to replace electrolytes.

I responded to the water as if the water itself was the supplement.

My body would tense up and start shivering. I'd get neck chills up the wazoo. It felt like something EXTREMELY GOOD was happening to me.

Then I'd get bursts of mania.
...

I'd feel light as a feather... it feels like the wrong thing to say because I felt anger, but I felt really 'lifted'. I often described my chronic fatigue as like having a weight on my shoulders, like a dark heavy shroud. I'd leep around the house. I'd still be rubbing myself and shuddering during all this. Sometimes I'd grit my teeth and let out a low scream, but that felt good too, like needing to let off steam.

This 'mania' would only last a few minutes, almost in greeting of the process that has barely taken off.

I'd calm down emotionally, then, and experience a more physical process, that felt very good. I'd tremor around various parts of my body. I'd rub--it wasn't involuntary, but there was an urge to do it, and it felt good. It was pretty much like massaging myself.

I'd rub, and slap, parts of my body. Hours later I'd experience pricking and needling and jabbing in various points. I'd thump them and kneed my muscles, and it felt good to do it. SOmetimes I'd burst out laughing in an 'insane' way (not that i felt insane, it'd just _sound_ like the laugh of a madman to a listener). It was torrential giddiness.

I mention in my notes how it almost seems the water itself is a supplement. The more I drink the more intensely I shudder, not just in my neck but all over the body, and more manic I feel.

After about the fifth or sixth hour, I'd experience something I call 'brain booting up'. I'm not sure if it was my blood volume/fluid reaching a certain level that triggers it or what, but it made the 'lifted' feeling I felt earlier feel like a joke. It was like I was becoming sentient for the first time. IT was very either-or and abrupt, like snapping on a light switch. It felt a bit like piracetam inconsistently felt to me, times a million, without any of the crap. I felt like a god, just comparitively to how I was before.
 

gbells

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You don't report a history of viral infections.

1. Have you been diagnosed by a licensed medical physician as having ME?
2. How do you know you had any deficiencies?
3. How did you determine what a correct daily supplement dose would be?
 
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You don't report a history of viral infections.

1. Have you been diagnosed by a licensed medical physician as having ME?
2. How do you know you had any deficiencies?
3. How did you determine what a correct daily supplement dose would be?
Thanks for necroposting, you saved me the trouble.

1. I don't know if any doctor has formally pronounced it, but they've all accepted that I have it.
2. I have been extremely responsive to various nutrients. My metabolism would 'throttle' around various deficiencies and my functioning would crash, and by trial and error I would find out which one it was, after which my functioning would pick up again.
3. I start out with researching the information on the recommended dose, the maximum dose, and the toxicity. After that it's fine tuning by way of trial and error.

Also, if anyone missed it, here's my 'potion' that I made (link).

Now to post what I actually came for: the logs from 20th to the 26th when I most reacted to my supplements (at least, for many years to come). Oddly enough I don't log taking any sodium bicarbonate during this time period, the last was the 15th and after that the 27th. I feel sure I took it between those two times, but eh, the logs don't say so!

I did not log all my reactions, particularly when they were at their most intense (around the 23rd or 24th). I also did not log every water I took: I took much more water than the logfile indicates.

GTE = Green tea extract.
GSE = Grape seed extract.
NAC = Acetyl-cysteine.
Cholinebit = Choline bitartrate.
Glutathione stuff = A mix of at least NAC, glycine and glutamine, possibly also vitamin C, possibly also other things.
meth = Methylcobalamin (most likely 5mg).
Gum = Nicotine gum.
Husks = Psyllium husks.
Dophilus = Jarrow Dophilus (probiotic).
Salt = A combination of potassium and sodium chloride (~2:3 ratio).
Strides = Use of an exercise machine.


20/05/11
--------------

9:30am:I arise. I woke at 9 to pee and then now by the alarm.

10:14am: If eel like I've not had enough sleep. Gonna have some guarana--and glutathione stuff, followed by plenty of fluid. You know I seem to remember now how very long sleeps don't make me feel any better at all.

***10:20am: 1g glutathione mix. You know, based on how I Feel at this moment, it may well have been causing the icky efeling. Glutamine perhaps? Anyway since I've got the precursors in me, I figure I@ll just take nac from hereon!

10:29am: I certainly feel affected in some wy... like disorientated.

10:35am: Had a beaker of water. Hard to say if I feel icky or not, but I'm definitely sleepy. I think I should lay off the melatonin tonight, it's probably having a buildup effect.

10:53am: eaten a load of that flapjack, and had a couple of coffees.

11:12am: water

11:18am: I _definitely_ feel icky. So I am convinced it's nac, glycine, or glutamine!

Maybe I need more nac in order to utilize the glutamine and glycine? I'll have some.

***11:23am: 1g nac. Got neck chills up the wazoo.

Just to be certain, tomorrow I@ll have coffee in the morning and nothing else, and see if that makes me feel icky.

I don't feel THAT icky, though, more shivery... but my brain is scrambled that's for sure. And now I'm getting this cramped feeling in my right arm??

11:51am: yeah, I think the glutamine or glycine is having that brain scrambling effect.

11:58am: Just had more water.

Yes. I think the source of the ickiness, originates in my back?

I think every 15 minutes I should alternate between 400mg nac and a plain beaker of water?

12:13pm: more water. I think this is actually working. I feel better. I think I'm brought down by something--I have no idea what--and that is what is scrambling my brain and working memory.

12:40pm: more water

12:49pm: Tense, clenching shiveriness? I could be just cold you know!

12:53pm: Gotten the massive lift I sometimes get off of nac. Still can't stop shivering, but I Feel great, and not at all icky.

12:57pm: more water.

**1:14pm: 9 minutes, 760 strides. Did fewer strides but managed to make myself out of breath with a short brisk burst of speed.

1:16pm: more water.

1:21pm: it was like my body was telling me to exercise before. It's certainly warmed me up and stopped me from shivering.

1:26pm: Ugh, got chills again now and my head feels fuzzy.

1:45pm: I notice how I'd eat breakfast just because it's a "rule" that you're meant to have it. I'm still not hungry and i've not ... oh wait, yes i did eat this morning. But not a huge amount.

1:56pm: Forgot to mention I had a lie down. Still got a few chills right now, but also got a strange alertness come over me.

1:57pm: Got a strange tightness in my lower middle, below my stomach I think.

2:04pm: Got an amazingly alert feeling inside me. It's extraordinary. I wonder if the tightness down below is my kidneys being overworked, flushing out toxins?

2:05pm: half cup of water. Peeing.

***3:31pm: 1x curcumin, k2.

4:07pm: finally peed again. I didn't mention all the water I drank.

***4:17pm: 1g nac, piracetam, 500mg glutamine, glycine, ginkgo.

4:27pm: Some very hard hiccups.

4:33pm: Got quite the tight feeling in me.

4:46pm: Just stuffed my face with bread and chicken. I thinkm piracetam gave me hunger again.

***4:54pm: 5g spirulina.

***5:12pm: Feel even tighter. 1x meth sub.

5:28pm: Peed. Finding it hard to concentrate again. Still feel tight.

6:03pm: Peed again. It's running clear, at least.

Been an hour and a quarter since fluid, time to have some more?

I'll wait a bit longer... nah. Had a not full beakerful.

6:36pm: Peed again. Will have some more water.

***6:39pm: 1x nicotine.

7:02pm: peed again.

7:30pm: Peed again. It's like clockwork now! I'm happy.

Tomorrow, might have a drink after my first urination of the day and see how long it takes me to pee it out. Then i'll factually know if my kidneys were working harder today (of course I know that they are).

***8:04pm: probably unwisely, i've had 2g salt, 2g magcit, with a full beaker of water.

8:15pm: I think I may be being quite reckless with my body, I feel like i'm swelling once again. It's time to scale it back a little!

Scale everything back, and don't take any more "electrolyte" drinks, please.

Just peed. I'll wait to pee again before taking any more water.

8:36pm: Don't care what I said, I am prety sure I need fluid. Gonna sip it slowly.

8:53pm: ate tons was ravenous all of asudden, just peed massively heard flushing noises in kidney then passed wind.

9:59pm: Peed again and I hear my kidneys growling.

Tomorrow, try alcar 500mg, magcit 3g, salt 2g, malic acid 1g, 500mg glutamine and glycine, 2g nac, msm.

But do the water retention test first.

10:18pm: had water about 10 minutes ago, I feel a bit stomach achy right now. Waiting to pee again once more before I go to bed.

10:36pm: It's not painful, but my stomach feels quite tense, like there are knots there. I'm giong to order a probiotic.

10:44pm: peed.

11:17pm: peed again.

11:40pm: peed again.

11:55pm: something's gone wrong with my left shoulder. Anyway, time for bed.

21/05/11
---------

9:18am: Awoken. Still got that tightness in my lower front. I'm not sure such high intakes of water was good with all the fluoride in it. On the plus side I don't think I feel icky. I peed first thing as well as during the night.

9:31am: Gonna take water now.

10:21am: Worth saying I slept as intensely

10:52am: peed. Feel cramping in what I Think is my kidney.

Fact is, I felt best yesterday around 3ish, after taking nac and then a lot of water. THen I kept pouring more and more water on, and added more nac. Maybe just do it once a day?

For all I experienced yesterday, I just have vanilla neck chills this morning.

***11:12am: 500mg salt, alcar, 3g magcit, 1g malic acid, msm, 500mg glycine and glutamine, 2g nac.

11:19am: Got a sulphuric taste in my mouth.

11:25am: more water.

11:33am: Started shivering.

11:37pm: Also clenching of my muscles, rubbing myself.

11:39pm: More water.

12:05pm: more water. Had a shit before, was unhealthy looking (loose) and a bit green.

***12:46pm: 1x b-right, more water.

12:54pm: more water.

1:25pm: My guts feel off.

1:32pm: Feel icky again, but more in my guts than in my blood. To make the water last, I'll top up my beaker with a bit of tap water.

1:36pm: More water.

1:44pm: I think that new water is making me feel fucking weird. Something is anyway, I've got weird feeling in my head and chills in my neck again.

"N-Acetyl Cysteine is a more stable compound than taking oral cysteine, but as it is metabolized, some N-Acetyl Cysteine may be oxidized and become insoluble. This may form kidney stones. It is therefore recommended that individuals taking NAC take 3 times as much vitamin C when taking NAC to prevent the NAC from being oxydized. "

Wow.

***1:52pm: 1g nac, 3g vitamin c.

2:00pm: I'm concerned about pink urine. Going to take half a cup of water then pee in a bottle.

2:13pm: Been slowly drinking more water, hoping for a pee. Don't want to drink too much in case it conceals any redness.

2:29pm: I peed. IT looks slightly green? No blood though, thankfully. Also it came to about a third of the 1.5 liter bottles. Had another water.

2:48pm: eaten a ton, became abruptly very hungry.

2:58pm: eaten a bit more, I think I'm satisfied now. Having some more water.

***3:03pm: I think my lack of motivation may be a lack of caffeine. Also, gum time!

3:07pm: peed.

3:15pm: Had coffee. Feel bumped up two levels, got that finger-snappy feeling but much fainter, maybe I could crack on with something now? Actually I want to lie down for a minute.

3:23pm: Just discovered that I apparently have no confidence.

4:14pm: peed again.

4:37pm: Once again I feel sulbutiamine just licking it off of my fingers.

***4:39pm: 100mg sulb, 800mg dmaebit.

4:48pm: 1x meth sub. Having a lie down.

5:00pm: peed. More water.

***5:02pm: 2x dibencozide.

I think I'll have fish and beans for dinner.

5:04pm: Not that great. Low on energy. Need more caffeine maybe?

5:12pm: Had coffee. Maybe also chick peas, asparagus, quinoa?

5:15pm: Coffe definitely helped. Or at least I can say I'm feeling it.

You may want to consider lowering the dose of nac tomorrow, from 1g to 500mg.

5:29pm: Feel a tightness in my belly again?

5:32pm: I'm wondering if chronic guarana administration is what was making me off, and the slow release of caffeine into the body. Just felt a flushing of the kidney again.

If I don't pee by 6 I'll have more water.

5:54pm: Had squelches buffed with a bit of water.

6:00pm: Chills.

6:13pm: More water.

6:17pm: Feel quite off again, wonder if it was something I took?

7:05pm: Energy is rushing into me with this food. Got the perfect beanmix with avacado and plenty of spinnach powder, some millet, and fish (trout I think?), and asparagus.

***7:06pm: 1x k2, 2x curcumin.

Will take ginger, eggs, spirulina, husks, as soon as I feel I have room for it. Perhaps make the drink now?

Had diharrea around 7:25ish.

***7:42pm: 5g spirulina, 4g husks, 3g ginger, 2x eggs, 400mg mte. That was the worst supplement ever because I added fucking sweet water.

8:04pm: water time.

8:13pm: Diharrea again.

9:30pm: Had another light coffee. I feel a pressure buildup in presumably my kidneys, again.

22/05/11
---------

12:46am: did two long pees without any drink, now feel dehydrated, gonna have some water, then bed!

10:35am: Woke up. Also woke up once in the night to pee, and peed again just now, full bladder both times. Seems my kidneys are holding onto water. Pity I got off late to bed, or I would have gotten up on the alarm.

I wouldn't have any more salt, that is probably what's causing it.

I definitely fall asleep better and more deeply and it's a lingering effect of the melatonin.

11:22am: Once again I do feel kind of off. About time I had the first NAC, I reckon.

***11:29am: 500mg nac, 1.5g vitc, SHIIIIIIT forgot glutathione precursors!!!!!, 1g malic acid.

At 11.45am will have more water, at 12 will have precursors, at half 12 or 1 will have next nac dose (with vitc).

11:42am: I'm tensing and shivering.

11:44am: had more water against the plan.

11:47am: It's definitely the NAC, this clenching, shivering feeling.

11:59am: Undergoing tons of shivering, had a couple more waters.

1:10pm: Eaten and feel a lot better. As usual I feel like I am getting more from my food.

***1:31pm: 1x curcumin, k2. Plenty of water.

1:33pm: Kicking ass a bit right now, will start the next nac course soon.

***3:36pm: more water, 300mg guarana, 200mg gte.

3:42pm: Shivering, been taking water in more, I think I underestimated how long the detoxifying lasts.

***4:28pm: 2x vinpocetine, 450mg ginkgo.

***4:45pm: 500mg nac, 250mg glutamine, glycine, 1g vitamin c.

4:47pm: Feel sleepy?

If i'm as poisoned as I think I am, the water intake is so crucial and I@ve probably caused permanent damage by nto taking it, depositing shit from parts of my body int omy brain.

6:33pm: Worth saying I've eaten. Getting proper shivers again as I drink. Good.

7:00pm: Not feeling that great actually. Weird tension in my face.

**7:36pm: 421 strides, 5 minutes. FOr some reason I found it WAY more difficult this time. Maybe because I was actually presing the pedals down?

8:21pm: Feel stiffness in my kidneys, only this time where my kidneys really are (my back).

8:29pm: It's increasing and I feel kind of stomach-achy as well.

I don't know if more water will help, or will make it worse, but I'm growing concerned, my kidneys both feel ... stiff.

8:51pm: Peed, stiffness decreased.

23/05/11
---------

9:37am: I awaken.



10:21am: Wondering if the NAC is still in my system given that I shiver when I drink?

While lying on the bed heard what was probably my liver make a flushing growl.

10:40am: 8g spirulina, 4g husks, 1g ginger, 400mg mte, 3x eggs.

***11:30am: 400mg guarana. Feel like a fog has been lifted instantly?

11:32am: Could be more just that my system needed fluid. Got that clenching and shivering?

***12:46pm: 1x nicotine.

***1pmish: 500mg gaba, 400mg ginkgo, 100mg theanine.

1:09pm: felt what felt like a blockage when I had a pint of water. Feel cold and got neck chills again.

***2:30pm: My body still seems to be telling me that it doesn't want food, eyt, it is telling me it needs energy, fuel. So 50g dextrose.

3:02pm: Ate a few buscuits and it definitely sat poorly on my stomach. What's causing this, gluten intolerance, or poor intestinal health for some other reason?

Wonder if it is the cheese I ate last night.

Consider that cheese and crackers is tons of gluten and tons of dairy. Don't eat any today, and see how it makes you feel.

4:11pm: Kidney tension. Thought I already wrote this, but the time before last that I drank I hiccuped so I figured I needed more water.

***6:54pm: 1x k2, zinc, curcumin, dibencozide, calcium.

***7:06pm: 2g magcit, 500mg alcar, malic acid. 1x meth sub.

***7:19pm: 2g taurine.

***7:25pm: Something is really helping me; I don't know if it's the taurine or something else, or even just the water.

I think the taurine is what's helping, and I think it's smoothing out an anxiety I wasn't aware was there.

***8:20pm: 1x b-right.

***8:58pm: 1x melatonin.

9:05pm: going to take some theanine, though I think how my head feels is already affected by melatonin (and it feels good for some reason).

***9:06pm: 300mg theanine. Yes, I felt an instant difference. Fascinating that supplements are working for me that never did before.

But what's it doing? Hard to say. Maybe a bit smoother. Not like phenibut though.

9:18pm: Try 5-htp in the morning first thing.

***9:32pm: 500mg ashwagandha.

9:35pm: Feel strange, possibly not good, after that? Probably wasn't the best thing to take with the metals risk.

9:37pm: I think i'm even more smoothed out but my head feels kind of heavy?

9:42pm: It feels good. I think I'm just settled now.

***9:57pm: 2g taurine. Feel instantly even more smoothed out.

10:17pm: I feel sedated now. Head feels almost like a piece of dead flesh, though my cognition seems fairly intact. Goodnight.

Actually, to hell with it I will have some cholinebit.

***10:23pm: 1g cholinebit, 2g inositol. Got instant brain-booting feeling.

24/05/11
---------

***9:38am: 600mg guarana. I woke up 2 times in the night to pee, and peed again when waking this morning, and each one was long. Interesting.

Had reluctance to rise (but not difficulty rising) despite the long sleep, and felt sleepy; I hypothesised that it could be caffeine running out, hence the guarana.

I definitely didn't sleep that great; some things I took probably interfered.

***9:47am: ~400mg 5-htp.

10:22am: Simply quite fatigued today, and caffeine didn't do anything to help.

***10:30am: 1x b-right emptied, 1g vitc, 500mg nac, 250mg glycine, glutamine. May not have been the best idea to include b-right because a) I'm interested in nac's effects alone, not just when metabolised to glutathione and b) it can produce glutathionylcobalamin.

10:47am: water.

11:15am: More water. feel really out of sorts

***11:25am: 500mg nac, 1g vitc.

***11:34am: Just needed quite a lot of water to kick everything into gear. 1x dophilus going for shit.

11:48am: Was like the previous days: in fragments and with bits of solid food in it.

11:55am: Some fibre, more water.

Seems the enzyme capsule will enter the bloodstream if you take it without food, and only help digest a particular meal if you take it with the meal? I need to confirm that.

12:08pm: water again. Starting to do that tensing. Good!

***12:53pm: 2g taurine.

12:54pm: Feel it come over my head.

12:57pm: Got that feeling of my head being like lead again! Never used to have this with taurine. My neck and a few of my muscles feel stiff. It could be an interaction with the detox process and the taurine.

1:15pm: Feel like my brain blood flow has increased even though I am not taking anything.

***1:55ishpm: dinner with another dophilus.

2:12pm: Got a stomach ache yet I still want to keep eating. Interesting.

***2:28pm: 3g ginger, 300mg mte.

2:58pm: Still the occasional gut-knot feeling but it went away for a while.

3:43pm: That gut disturbance seems to have settled, for the moment at the least, where I previously felt that tightness in what I considered to be my left kidney, and has transformed into that.

***3:53pm: 1g taurine, salt.

***4:28pm: 10g spirulina. Feel instantly affected by it.

4:32pm: Like taurine, it seems I respond to this more reliably as well.

5:06pm: Fascinating. I just yawned, and it actually gave me a very brief headache in the back of my head.

5:57pm: I'm curious how i'll react to piracetam + fish oil. I'll take pira alone first. 4 grams.

***6:02pm: 1g piracetam. I am sensitive after all. I instantly feel it, and I mean instantly. I think what I felt was the increased brain blood flow.

6:12pm: Definitely the strongest ever response to piracetam, too. It's brain-blood flow.

***6:20pm: 4g fish oil. This doesn't feel as great, though it could be doing something useful nonetheless. It was the usual smoothed out feeling that it's given me before.

6:26pm: I don't like it anymore. It's definitely fatigued me. May try some cholinebit.

6:29pm: 1g cholinebit. Not feeling any differently from it.

6:34pm: Not sure if it's the choline or a continuation of the fish oil but something is continuing to affect my brain.

I think I have already done to my brain what piracetam does artificially, and that's why I feel I'm responding too strongly to it. Wondering if perhaps ginkgo will help.

***6:55pm: Nicotine may help, so I am going to take it. Piracetam is a vasodilator. 1/2 gum.

7:09pm: It's had an effect, but not sure if it's made it better or worse. My head still feels heavy. I'd think if there were serious problems, there would be gain.

7:20pm: I believe the nicotine has finally helped--the vasoconstriction comes later. I think it has pushed the blood flow and the piracetam with it down, since If eel tightness in my kidneys again.

***7:39pm: 1x dibencozide, meth sub, curcumin, k2, d3, calcium.

8:18pm: I feel very fatigued now. I am definitely ready for some sleep.

9:11pm: I think the blood has gone back into my head.

10:42pm: 3g glycine.

25/05/11
---------

12:28am: Grr, should have gone ages ago. Goodnight.

***10:05am: 200mg gte, gse, 500mg nac, 1000mg vitc.

10:55am: Induced the shivering, though I think I'm also just cold. I'm definitely tired, yawning all of the time.

***11:18am: 400mg guarana, 500mg tyrosine, 1g taurine. Felt an INSTANT feeling come over my head. Tightening in my cheeks?

11:40am: trembling like mad.

***12:25pm: 200mg piracetam. Feel it 10 seconds after drinking it.

***1:45pm: 1g salt.

***2:00pm: 2g magcit, 500mg malic acid, 50g dextrose.

2:06pm: that gave me huge tremors. Let's look up what malic acid chelates.

***2:07pm: 500mg nac.

Aluminium.

2:21pm: More water.

***2:25pm: 1/2 nicotine.

***6:16pm: 400mg nac.

6:26pm: Tremble-mania again.

***10:25pm: 1g taurine. Glycine.

Feel quite gut-achy, perhaps not enough fibre from drinking water all day and not eating?

26/05/11
---------

Awoke at 11isham. Was really needing the sleep. In case I need more blood cells, going to take some spirulina.

I could easily spend most of my day napping, I think recovery is deeply needed. Felt frazzled as hell last night.

Feel a bit head-sore.

***11:26am: 5g spirulina, 1g husks. 1x bacteria.

11:32am: Hrm, has that brought out the neck chills?

***11:56am: 1g vitc, malic acid, 500mg nac.

Don't fucking believe this, I feel icky again and it's smothering my brain. AFTER ALL THAT PROGRESS. I should consider dropping ALL supplements beside the detox and glutathione ones.

12:09pm: Tremors.

***1:49pm: 500mg nac, 1g vitamin c.

***2:04pm: beanmix, 1(2)x bacteria, 1x curcumin, d3, k2, calcium, zinc. Would take b-complex but I'm concerned about the meth and nac interaction, plus I probably got plenty of b-vitamins from the beanmix.

2:43pm: Stool was fully formed but very wet.

5:12pm: Just a few sips of coffee and have a blatant brain-lift.

5:40pm: 4g husks.

***6:18pm: 250mg rhodiola.

6:28pm: Think I've definitely gotten a mood lift off of it.

***6:29pm: 1x lithium.

Will try dmaebit and sulb separately.

***6:54pm: 800mg dmaebit.

6:56pm: Feel it; it feels like it's in my forehead and my face, maybe a slight tightening. Can't say anything else about it.

I'm not sure if it is affecting my cognition, I may be a bit more alert, but I think I need a milder dose.

**7:20pm: SHIT amount of strides, 5 minutes.

Not sure what's going on but I'm not as fit as I thought. Can I get that much unfitter in 4 days?

***7:45pm: 300mg theanine.

***8:12pm: 50mg sulb.

8:42pm: Memory seems impaired?

***9:27pm: 500mg l-dopa (I hope to god).

9:36pm: pupils are normal I think.

9:40pm: It gave me a faint headache. That is all. No cognitive benefits anyway. Will see if it helps my sleep at all.

***9:41pm: 40mg 5-htp.

9:43pm: Strnage ,pupils seem smaller.

***9:44pm: 1x melatonin.

9:56pm: Become awashed with a very sleepy feeling.

11:18pm: Totally shattered, will be going soon.
 
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One other development that happened after I last posted in this thread: I took chlorella pyrenoidosa, about 5-10 grams per 500ml water, and sip on it slowly. I'd get the 'flux' (chills in neck/spine, tugging sensation) from doing this. I reasoned that it was the chlorella binding to mercury in the gut. Although it seems to be unresearched as to whether chlorella actually does bind to mercury, anecdotal reports suggest that it might, and so does my own anecdotal experience. It was also unbroken chlorella, meaning the nutrients couldn't be accessed and so be the reason for my reaction. In fact, broken chlorella makes me feel ill!

Anyway, one day I took a trip to Costco and was sipping on the green stuff while in the shop. I then ran out. On the way back home, I felt quite unwell -- I then threw up bile after which I felt extremely great, euphoric, and confident. I think it was the clearance of enterohepatically cycled mercury and that I'd 'tricked' my body into migrating mercury into the enterohepatic circulation by way of the Chlorella 'telling' the body that the mercury was absent, so that burdening the liver with more of the stuff was affordable. Anyway, for at least a year afterward I was constantly throwing up bile. I did not feel as good from the throwing up later as I did the first time it happened, however.

I believe that the constant mercury recycling and exposure forced my body to have greater demands placed on it for metabolic precision. It needed hypernourishment. I was able to achieve that with my preparation/potion. I do not think I could have evolved the preparation if I had not had mercury swimming around my body, it was like a 'screening agent' that exposed to me when said toxicity was relieved by way of metabolic enhancement.
 

gbells

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1. I don't know if any doctor has formally pronounced it, but they've all accepted that I have it.
2. I have been extremely responsive to various nutrients. My metabolism would 'throttle' around various deficiencies and my functioning would crash, and by trial and error I would find out which one it was, after which my functioning would pick up again.
3. I start out with researching the information on the recommended dose, the maximum dose, and the toxicity. After that it's fine tuning by way of trial and error.
re 1) Unless your doctor has written and substantiated that you have ME then it is just speculative.

and 2) Responsiveness to certain nutrients does not validate a deficiency. It may suggest one but you still need lab testing to validate. It does not appear that you had any lab testing performed for the nutrients you are supplementing. The placebo effect alone is 30% positive response.
 
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re 1) Unless your doctor has written and substantiated that you have ME then it is just speculative.

and 2) Responsiveness to certain nutrients does not validate a deficiency. It may suggest one but you still need lab testing to validate. It does not appear that you had any lab testing performed for the nutrients you are supplementing. The placebo effect alone is 30% positive response.
A very rude post.

I don't 'speculate' my symptoms. I have them. That would be a true regardless what some authority figure you worship thinks.

And the idea that placebo can cause full body tremors is laughable. Particularly when I've had no reactions to things I've had high expectations for, and had physical reactions when I've had no expectations. If it were 100% mind-over-matter, that wouldn't be the case. So I'm not the impressionable idiot you make me out to be.

I don't see how a lab test would rule out placebo either; the most they could do is double-blind me so I don't know what I'm taking, but knowing what I'm taking is already established as not having an affect.

There are excesses of anything, including open-mindedness and scepticism. The golden mean is in the middle. It's clear where on the continuum you stand...
 
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