Russian Immuno-modulators

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Frankie Dene

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Hamilton, New Zwaland
heapsreal said:
Hi Frankie, thanks for sharing your experience. Did u take 6 tabs a day all the time or did u alternate your doses and had periods of severals months where u took a break from it. Info that i have read on dosing seem to suggest alternating doses each week and using 2 months on and 2 months off. Yes immunovir is expensive, cycloferon seems cheaper and doses recommended are alternated. Im unsure of the reason for alternating doses for immunomodulators, I think its to help avoid tolerence but got no real idea why.

cheers!!!
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I took so long to reply sorry - I am also confused about the Nancy Klimas and others suggesting the breaks - the first time when I came right in 16 months I took it everyday - it was early days ie 5 years agao. Now I take 6 perday but everynow and then have a break in the weekends. My doc says she doesn't know why the break but as I was usccessful? last time to take it everyday. Also on another thread have found a cheaper source from Goldpharm. Look it up - I'm thinking I will try to find out more about it as it is half the cost of getting it from my pharmacist.
 
shannah

shannah

Senior Member
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Interesting - Elecampane is used in the Cowden protocol as a particular Lyme treatment for co-infections Babesia and parasites. I was on it for a while and I remember it turning my eyes very intensely bloodshot as it did with others. I'll have to go back and read my notes from it.

From the paper above http://www.ekomed.com.ua/pub/01.pdf

"Immunoxel (Dzherelo) was provided by Ekomed company, Kiev,
Ukraine. It contains aqueous alcohol extract of elecampane rhizome (Inula helenium);
fennel fruit (Foeniculum vulgare); juniper berry (Juniperus communis); licorice root
(Glycyrrhiza glabra); oregano herb (Oreganum majorana); marigold flowers (Calendula
officinalis); rose hips (Rosa canina) and thyme (Thymus serpyllum). These herbs are
considered by the FDA as Generally Regarded As Safe (GRAS) substances. Immunoxel
(Dzherelo) has been approved in 1997 by the Ministry of Health of Ukraine as a dietary,
immunomodulating supplement."
 
Hip

Hip

Senior Member
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18,161
For anyone trying immunomodulators for chronic fatigue syndrome such as cycloferon (which boosts interferon alpha and beta) or astragalus (which boost interferon alpha and gamma), or Immunovir (which boosts interferon gamma), note that Dr Cheney says that you should follow a pulsed, on/off protocols when taking immunomodulators, to stop the body from getting used to the drugs or herbs, and compensating for them.

Here is Dr Cheney’s protocol for taking Immunovir:

Week one, take 6 tablets a day, Monday through Friday, and none on the weekend. Week two, take 2 tablets a day, Monday through Friday, and none on the weekend. Repeat this cycle. But do not treat every month. Do two months on and then one month off of this “pulsing” dose. This medicine works best when you do not treat regularly. If you treat continuously at the same dose, it stops working. It is an immune modulator, and Dr. Cheney suspects all immuno-modulators are like this. If taken continuously they stop working. The dose must vary so the immune system never knows what to expect.

Whether this Cheney protocol is equally suitable for cycloferon also, I am not sure; but bear in mind that some CFS doctors do feel that the body stops responding to immunomodulators if they are used continuously.

Note that Dr Nancy Klimas, who often prescribes Immunovir for her CFS patients, says that it can take up to a year before the benefits of Imunovir start to accumulate.


Maximizing the Effect

In terms of maximising the antiviral potency of the immunomodulators that boost interferon-alpha (namely cycloferon and astragalus), you may want to consider taking a zinc supplement at the same time, because:

Zinc Potentiates the Antiviral Action of Human Interferon-Alpha Tenfold

That is to say, the above study would suggest that taking zinc supplements at the same time as cycloferon or astragalus should increase the interferon-alpha potency by a factor of 10.

Furthermore, NF-kB inhibitors (like curcumin and grape seed extract) can also boost the antiviral and immunomodulatory effects of interferon.

Finally, note that interferon-alpha has more powerful antiviral action than interferon-gamma, but interferon-alpha + interferon-gamma work even better in combination. So taking an interferon-alpha booster like cycloferon or astragalus, with an interferon-gamma booster like Immunovir (or inosine + DMAE) might be an excellent strategy.

So, adding all the above info together, one might theorize that potent antiviral and immunomodulatory protocol for CFS that I think should have considerable efficacy might be:

• Cycloferon and/or astragalus
• Immunovir (or inosine)
• Zinc
• Curcumin or grape seed extract

Of course, consult with a doctor before trying this.

Note that interferon can lower brain serotonin levels, and which may make you a little more depressed. If this happens, try serotonin boosters, like high dose inositol powder, around 10 grams daily (inositol is a B-vitamin, not to be confused with the inosine supplement mentioned above).
 
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undcvr

undcvr

Senior Member
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822
Location
NYC
Going off topic for awhile, other food drugs/supplements that I have taken and still taking and helping are:

Miso - one of my favs, I would take more of it if it werent so salty
Natto - this can taste vile to someone not used to it.
Lemon Juice
a Salad with Vinegar specifically as the dressing
Bone Marrow soup (slow boil until even the cartilage (collagen) goes into the soup) *Bone marrow oil tastes quite amazing.
Maitake/Shitake/Oyster mushoom

Again you should pulse all of these to get the best effect.
 
vli

vli

Senior Member
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Location
CA
This is kind of late but Hip, did you try cycloferon eventually? How did it go??? Thanks so much.
 
D

Deepseascallop

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1
Hi to everyone....

To those, who ask how to take AMIXIN (TILORONE) ......

If your doctor didn't recommend you the other, then the normal treatment with AMEXIN in tablet form would be like:
1 tab ( 0,125g.) per day after breakfast for 4 days, and then 1 tab. each 48 hours. So 4 days in a raw, 5th day would be a break, and then the next tab should be taken on 6th day, so continues further, with 48 hours interval. Altogether 10 tabs, for smaller scale of immune deficit, and for other more difficult forms of it, the treatment can last much longer.
BE AWARE!!!!!! that each tablet should always be taken at the same time. And the perfect time for your immune is 8 am.
So u better try to plan your day in a way that there is a chance to have a breakfast before 8 am.

In general for those who has kind of a 2d type of deficit, there is a wonderful scheme to be used.
Unfortunately this scheme includes one more medical product, also invented and produced in Russia, named POLYOXIDONIUM.

This scheme of treatment includes the next treatment:

From the day 1 till day 20 you take 2 tabs. of POLYOXIDONIUM (12mg.) 30 min. before breakfast at 8 am. So your breakfast time would be 8.30 am. Then the next time u take 2 tabs. 30 min. before dinner, at 8 pm. So at 8.30 your can dine. Altogether, it would be 4 tabs. per day within 20 days.

From the day 21 you take another medicament IMMUNORM ( Rhatiofarm GMbh.) this is a natural medicament, based on Ehinacea extract. (In fact, I believe, that this medicament can be replaced with any other natural immunomodulator based on Ehinacea.)
So, from day 21 u take IMMUNORM (0,1g.) 3 times per day while eating within 20 days.
Also from the same 21 day u start taking AMIXIN. ( the scheme is the same like mentioned above).

Once again 1-20 day POLIOXIDONIUM, from 21 day AMIXIN + IMMUNORM

Also, I could recommend one more wonderful modulator named DERINAT (Desoxiribonucleate sodium). This is by far a very good one as well as POLYOXIDONIUM. Can be even stronger.
It is used in a form of injections. (1 per day within 10 or 15 days.)

Still try not overdo with modulators, read all info about it carefully, speak to your doctor.
Remember almost all medicaments can have negative consequences.
Out of all medicaments mentioned above POLYOXIDONIUM has almost no consequences, and AMIXIN can have a lot, but each case still stays to be individual.

Remember, overdoing with modulator can be dangerous on a genetical level. Take this treatments with breaks. But not a whole year in a row, sure, if we do not speak of the difficult cases. But for those - doctors exist, who would lead u through the whole treatment u need, with those medicaments, that they believe to be the most effective in your case.

BE HELTHY!

Regards,
Alexandra
 
J

jake45

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16
randalbond said:
They're still many doctors in Former Soviet Union (my mum inclusive) who don't believe that this condition exists. My experiment with immunostimulators has been my own idea. To my knowledge, Russia is not offering any cutting edge treatments for CFS. I never heard of anyone using Rituximab, IVIG or ampligen there. US is much better for it if you have the money. I know Russian CFS hospitals are all very, very expensive and there's no insurance to cover part of the cost. There they target certain infections, like CMV and it does help some people. Not sure if they do anything about Lyme positive patients.
If I had the money, I would go to Russia or Ukraine to get Mabthera (Rituximab), the more so that some people sell sulprus after cancer treatment cheaper than pharmacy price. And anyway, all medications can be bought without prescription (sounds like a fairy-tale, doesn't it? But true. Russia is not a part of the EU and has its own regulations).
By the way, any info on Norwegian trials with the drug? The should have finished their trial in June.
Click to expand...

Why don't they believe it exists?
 
halcyon

halcyon

Senior Member
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2,482
@Hip did you ever end up giving arbidol (umifenovir) another shot? Just came across this:

Umifenovir effectively inhibits IL-10 dependent persistent Coxsackie B4 virus infection.
Zhang S1, Zhi C2, Li H3, Huang D3, Fan Q3, Cui J4, Liang C5.
Author information

Abstract
Coxsackie virus cannot be completely eliminated due to restrictive replication and impaired immune response, thus causing persistent infection. IL-10 plays a decisive role in the course of persistent viral infection. Umifenovir is a broad-spectrum antiviral drug, with certain treatment effects on Coxsackie virus infection. Previously, we showed that in addition to inhibiting Coxsackie B4 (CVB4) infection, Umifenovir also down-regulates IL-10 induced by persistent CVB4 virus infection in vitro and in vivo. Here, BALB/c mouse spleen cells infected with CVB4 were used as a model to explore the mechanism by which Umifenovir affects IL-10 expression. We found that subcellular localization of p38 and MAPK-activated protein kinase 2 (MK2) played a very important role in IL-10 secretion, and Umifenovir significantly prevented p38-MK2 complex from exiting the cell nucleus. This in turn blocked the biological functions of the latter pathway, and inhibited the high expression of IL-10 induced by CVB4. These findings suggest that Umifenovir is a potential anti-CVB4 drug; most importantly, Umifenovir could be used to treat IL-10 induced persistent viral infection.
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Hip

Hip

Senior Member
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18,161
halcyon said:
@Hip did you ever end up giving arbidol (umifenovir) another shot? Just came across this:
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Very interesting Halcyon, that study is a great find.

I never tried Arbidol again after trying once for around 1 week (this was back in around 2010). But now with that study you found, which says Arbidol targets coxsackievirus B4, the active enteroviral infection that I have, I will definitely try it again, for a longer period.


Very interesting that the study talks about Arbidol treating "IL-10 induced persistent viral infection". And that they found coxsackievirus B4 actually induces IL-10. I wonder if other Coxsackie B viruses and echoviruses are also capable of inducing IL-10.

IL-10 of course is a Th2 cytokine, and in the Th1/Th2 model of ME/CFS, viral clearance is prevented by too much Th2 dominance. So I expect that coxsackievirus B4 is "deliberately" inducing IL-10, in order to shift the immune response away from the antiviral Th1 mode, and towards the antibacterial Th2 mode, for immune evasion purposes.

So this induction of IL-10 could be one of the ways that ME/CFS patients are kept locked into a persistent enterovirus infection that they cannot clear.

Interestingly enough, many herpes family viruses including Epstein-Barr virus and cytomegalovirus posses the viral genes to make a fake version (homolog) of IL-10, to fool the immune system to shifting to Th2. Ref: 1. But this is the first time I have come across enterovirus using IL-10 to fool the immune system. From your quoted study, it seems that enteroviruses may not have the genes to make their own IL-10, but CVB4 is able to induce the secretion of actual human IL-10, as an immune evasion strategy.

If you search Google, there are some studies examining the important role of IL-10 in maintaining viral persistence, and how persistent viral infections can be cleared by blocking IL-10

Arbidol might thus be a good general immunomodulator to add to the oxymatrine protocol, as Arbidol seems to address one of the possible causes of the Th2 dominance, namely this CVB4 induced secretion of IL-10 (and perhaps other enteroviruses might also induce IL-10 secretion).

Plus Arbidol has direct antiviral effects against CVB3, CVB4 and CVB5, in addition to its immunomodulatory action on IL-10. I don't think the antiviral effects will help that much in chronic infections though, because their mechanism of action is via preventing viral entry to the cell. Ref: 1 Although this study found that Arbidol also decreased the level of CVB5 RNA in infected cells, which perhaps may help combat chronic non-cytolytic enterovirus infections.

So in enterovirus-associated ME/CFS, Arbidol might best be used as an immunomodulator, perhaps to help augment the immunomodulatory effects of oxymatrine or inosine.

The LD50 of Arbidol is more than 4 grams per kg (ref: 1), so this drug may be safe to take in high doses.


Arbidol (umifenovir) can be bought at the following online pharmacies that specialize in Russian pharmaceuticals:

http://medicinesdelivery.com/index.php?route=product/search&search=Arbidol
http://pharmashipping.net/index.php?route=product/search&filter_name=Arbidol
https://extrapharmacy.ru/index.php?route=product/search&search=arbidol
https://medik24.net/index.php?route=product/search&filter_name=Arbidol
http://rupharma.com/arbidol/

https://pharmalad.com have Arbidol for sale, but their website is in Russian; they do however ship internationally.
 
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eljefe19

eljefe19

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483
Hip

Hip

Senior Member
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@eljefe19, if you look at the full version of this paper on Sci Hub, most of the two dozen or so Russian immunomodulators detailed therein are claimed to increase interferon. However, one Western study on the Russian immunomodulator tilorone (Amixin) found it had no interferon boosting effects at all in humans, and said that:
The fact that tilorone ... is very effective in the mouse but not in man suggests that the interferon system in man may not be capable of intense or prolonged exogenous stimulation and that findings in lower animals may not be applicable to man.
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Tilorone was also found in that study to be quite toxic. So there is something rather dubious about these interferon boosting claims, at least in the case of tilorone, which gets its results from mouse studies that do not apply to humans.

I am not sure whether the other Russian immunomodulators are also basing their claims on mouse studies. But that study suggests that the human immune system may not respond to prolonged drug stimulation in order to release interferon, even though the mouse immune system does respond to these drugs.

I was not aware of that tilorone study when I first started this thread, but came across it more recently.
 
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eljefe19

eljefe19

Senior Member
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483
Thanks for that response Hip. Even if Arbidol doesn't mimic Interferon I'm still intrigued by decreasing IL-10. Another drug I take, Cimetidine, through it's antihistamine action boosts IL-12 and decreases IL-10.
 
Hip

Hip

Senior Member
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18,161
eljefe19 said:
Another drug I take, Cimetidine, through it's antihistamine action boosts IL-12 and decreases IL-10.
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Perhaps that's one of the mechanisms by which (according to Dr Chia) cimetidine augments the immunomodulatory effects of oxymatrine, see this post. More info on cimetidine here.
 
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