Rs6323 - MAO-A - What this gene does if its bust

[Bluebell]

Also, can someone explain what the "warrior gene" part of MAO-A is? The wikipedia entry doesn't talk about the warrior gene alleles (not explicitly).

The reference is not very informative: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17339897

Though this comment on that paper is sensible:
"Abstract
This article provides a summary of our ethical concerns regarding the so-called "warrior gene" line of research. Prompted by recent claims that there is a genetic explanation for negative social and health statistics for Māori, the article discusses issues related to informed consent of research participants, the validity of the underlying science related to the "warrior gene", and scientifically unfounded speculation regarding the causality of complex social issues. We conclude that in all science, and particularly where there is a highly charged social and political setting, the scientist has a responsibility for the way in which findings are disseminated and for ensuring a clear public understanding of the limitations of the work."

and this comment:
"Abstract
In 2006, the monoamine oxidase-A gene was widely reported in the media as being associated with risk-taking and aggressive behaviour in Māori. We examine the scientific evidence underlying this claim. Whilst there is credible evidence for a contribution of a monoamine oxidase-A genetic variant to antisocial behaviour in Caucasians, there is no direct evidence to support such an association in Māori. Insufficient rigour in interpreting and applying the relevant literature, and in generating new data, has (in conjunction with a lack of scientific investigative journalism) done science and Māori a disservice."

and this from 2012: http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22494506
"Abstract
The 'gene of' is a teleosemantic expression that conveys a simplistic and linear relationship between a gene and a phenotype. Throughout the 20th century, geneticists studied these genes of traits. The studies were often polemical when they concerned human traits: the 'crime gene', 'poverty gene', 'IQ gene', 'gay gene' or 'gene of alcoholism'. Quite recently, a controversy occurred in 2006 in New Zealand that started with the claim that a 'warrior gene' exists in the Mãori community. This claim came from a geneticist working on the MAOA gene. This article is interested in the responsibility of that researcher regarding the origin of the controversy. Several errors were made: overestimation of results, abusive use of the 'gene of' kind of expression, poor communication with the media and a lack of scientific culture. The issues of the debate were not taken into account sufficiently, either from the political, social, ethical or even the genetic points of view. After more than 100 years of debates around 'genes of' all kinds (here, the 'warrior gene'), geneticists may not hide themselves behind the media when a controversy occurs. Responsibilities have to be assumed.

---
ooh, an interesting field: my INTP ears perk up
Centre for Economic and Social Aspects of Genomics, Lancaster University
"the politics of genetic research into aggressiveness and violence"
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18959733

 

[Bluebell]

Ah-hah, it's different in men and women --

In women the low-expression variant of MAO-A is linked with being calmer and LESS aggressive -- like I am.

Whereas in men, the low-expressing variant is linked to more aggression -- perhaps that is this "warrior" idea.

"Male carriers of the low-expressing variant (MAOA-L) with childhood trauma or other early adverse events seem to be more aggressive, whereas female carriers with the high-expressing variant (MAOA-H) with childhood trauma or other early adverse events may be more aggressive.
....A protective effect of the low-expression variant in women on aggression reactivity is consistent with previous observations in adolescent girls. In females, the MAOA-H may predispose to aggression-related problems during sad mood."
Brain Behav. 2012 Nov;2(6):806-13. doi: 10.1002/brb3.96. Epub 2012 Oct 5.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23170243

---
How does this fit with what everyone here was saying about MAO-A -- how it predisposes people to mood swings etc.? Is that only in males?

 

[roxie60]

If this is talking about the majority allele, TT, which Dr. Yasko calls the risky one, +/+, that is what I have --TT--, but I really am not emotionally up and down at all. I am calm and collected almost all the time. I am steady, thoughtful, strategic, good in a crisis. When I get angry it's such a foreign experience that I'm terrible at it. I don't have insomnia, anxiety, eating disorders.

I do have a type of depression but it doesn't really vary, it's kind of a constant anomie that in some ways I've had since I was a child, but I'm not doom&gloom or self-critical, etc. It is certainly influenced negatively by my lack of energy, lack of health, and lack of motivation, but I think these lacks cause a feeling of depression, and not that the existence of depression is causing the lack of energy, health, and/or motivation - if that makes any sense.

There must be other factors going on with the way I'm wired, because my temperament is mostly the opposite of what this MAO-A mutation apparently predicts.

Are there companion mutations that might coexist with the MAO-A's slow breakdown to make the larger neurotransmitter system work in a steady fashion, instead of these big highs and lows that other people apparently experience with +/+ MAO-A?

I'm afraid I don't understand the larger biochemical context of what it means to have a slower breakdown of neurotransmitters, so I am at the limit of my understanding when just talking about these associated behaviors/characteristics.

====
Does any of this have anything to do with how taking 1 measly capsule of sunflower lecithin (1200 mg) sent me on a 5-hour all-night-long sleepless relentless "hot flash" and then absolutely wiped me out for the subsequent 24 hours? Is that due to adrenalin or something? Is this where my +/+ MAO-A has some sort of bottleneck?

[I took it 3 days - first time it just made me feel warm for a while, maybe 30 mins. Second day it gave me a 2 hour really warm, waking up in the middle of the night type of thing, but it cleared and I could go back to sleep -- and I'm cold-natured so it's not in my experience to have hot flashes. Third day it picked me up and threw me around like King Kong, as mentioned in the above paragraph.]

Or what in the heck was going on there? I thought that lecithin was a benign part of Rich's protocol, before the heavyweights of B12 and B9 come into the frame.

====
One thing I think is interesting is why any version of this allele would result in less of a placebo response (which is mentioned in the Wikipedia reference above). What is it about the other versions of this allele that would allow more of a placebo response? (not really due to a drug action, but due to a kind of imaginary expectation that it would work)

Do you have some COMT+/+? That might help (again I believe my source was the Thane video).

 

[Bluebell]

Do you have some COMT+/+?

I have 2 heterozygous COMTs:
COMT H62H +/-
COMT V158M +/-

 

[Bluebell]

Ah-hah, it's different in men and women --
In women the low-expression variant of MAO-A is linked with being calmer and LESS aggressive -- like I am.
Whereas in men, the low-expressing variant is linked to more aggression -- perhaps that is this "warrior" idea.
"Male carriers of the low-expressing variant (MAOA-L) with childhood trauma or other early adverse events seem to be more aggressive, whereas female carriers with the high-expressing variant (MAOA-H) with childhood trauma or other early adverse events may be more aggressive.
....A protective effect of the low-expression variant in women on aggression reactivity is consistent with previous observations in adolescent girls. In females, the MAOA-H may predispose to aggression-related problems during sad mood."
Brain Behav. 2012 Nov;2(6):806-13. doi: 10.1002/brb3.96. Epub 2012 Oct 5.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23170243

Valentijn, do you take this finding into account with your "riskier" and "safer" designation of the MAO-A alleles?

(In other words, I just knew that my majority alleles for MAO-A ought to be called "-/-" in my homemade results chart )

 

[Valentijn]

Valentijn, do you take this finding into account with your "riskier" and "safer" designation of the MAO-A alleles?

I haven't looked at MAOA in depth yet ... but if I do, it will be in the context of actual disease risk or methylation complications. I really don't give a damn what people think it says about personality

It's also a type of psychological research I'm particularly unimpressed with, since it uses similar tactics as some of the worst fatigue research. Too much retrospective crap, and too much subjective crap. I want the physiological science, not the psychological correlations with a lot of stereotyping and generalizing thrown in.

 

[Bluebell]

I haven't looked at MAOA in depth yet ... but if I do, it will be in the context of actual disease risk or methylation complications. I really don't give a damn what people think it says about personality It's also a type of psychological research I'm particularly unimpressed with, since it uses similar tactics as some of the worst fatigue research. Too much retrospective crap, and too much subjective crap. I want the physiological science, not the psychological correlations with a lot of stereotyping and generalizing thrown in.

I'm not sure even Yasko gets "damns" and "craps"!

The ways people behave, feel, and think are certainly physiologically based, medically important, worthy of study, affected by genetics, etc.

I don't know much about this area of research, and I haven't read the actual article, but I would expect that your criticism and prejudice are probably not fully deserved.

But I have to spend my time on issues more salient to my life right now, so I won't argue here.

 

[IwillHeal!]

I crave Bananas like crazy! This is so fascinating. I was thinking the craving for bananas arose out of my need for potassium, but perhaps not! I do see that I get moody sometimes afterwards.... thank-you so much for your input. I love this forum! Star

Um me too.....I am ++ MAO-A and I eat an absurd amount of bananas! What a buzz kill. I guess I will take a break to see if my moodiness improves. Are we more than just genetics? At this point I just have to laugh.....goodness.

 

[roxie60]

Snow, is your serotonin or dopamine low, or high, or is that your question?

I know about low serotonin.

mine are very low as are many of the other neurotransmitters.

 

[Star-Anise]

roxie60
What is the preferred method /place for testing neurotransmitter function? Have u had your's tested?

 

[Star-Anise]

roxie60
What is the preferred method /place for testing neurotransmitter function? Have u had your's tested?

 

[roxie60]

roxie60
What is the preferred method /place for testing neurotransmitter function? Have u had your's tested?

I have had mine tested twice, 1 year apart. The lab was Pharmasan in Wisconsin and it was a saliva test. I do not know if it is the preferred method. I believe the following were the neurotransmitters (12) tested. I was low the first time on all but 3 and I was low the second time on all but 4 (but two of those were close to the range bottom). My worst was Dopamine.


Dopamine (saliva)
Serotonin
Epinephrine
Nor-epinephrine
5-HIAA
GABA
Taurine
Glycine
Glutamate
Histamine
PEA
DOPAC

 

[Star-Anise]

roxie60 thanks so much I'm sure I'm low too! But so very sensitive to supplementing... Tolerance seems to be increasing as I'm able to up my methylation supports slowly... I'm also finding that as I support liver detox & rejuvenation that my tolerance for neurotransmitter support is increasing, yay I'm going to add this test to the list! All the best,

 

[SOC]

Ah-hah, it's different in men and women --

In women the low-expression variant of MAO-A is linked with being calmer and LESS aggressive -- like I am.

Thank you for that! I was puzzling about the same thing. I, too, am naturally calm and far less aggressive than most people. I am certainly not prone to mood swings. Yet I have the MAO-A (rs6323) TT variant. Makes sense now if it works differently in men and women (I wonder why).

I have 2 heterozygous COMTs:
COMT H62H +/-
COMT V158M +/-

Me, too. Did you ever find out if it means anything in conjunction with the MAO-A +/+?

 

[helen1]

I read something interesting about MAO A in a layperson's genetics book. A study was done in New Zealand of children born in 1972 with the MAO A; they were followed for 25 years or so. What was interesting was that the children who sadly had been abused or otherwise mistreated, had 4x or more the incidence of criminal behavior (assault, theft, rape) compared to the control group. Oddly, those children who were not maltreated had LESS incidence of antisocial behavior. There was a slight gender difference but can't quite remember it.

 

[jepps]

If somebody has a +/+ mutation in the MAO-A rs1137070 or 6323, which is the slower version, and a +/+ mutation in the MAO-A rs2072743, which is the faster version, I wonder if they reverse each other? Does this anybody know?

 

[musicchick581]

@jepps I was just wondering this. Now I'm finding that MAO A has to do with histamine? The last two days we had high pollen (which I tested negative on two allergy tests) and I had such bad out of nowhere anxiety and panic attacks that I couldn't focus, breathing in was hard and it lasted most of the day till it suddenly disappeared randomly while I was outside. Two days in a row. I have panic and anxiety normally every day but not like this where I couldn't focus my eyes, breathe well or think. I didn't feel more congested than usual. I do have LPR reflux that was worse too for some reason as well.

How do you take your raw data from 23 and me and find the risk alleles for all the other MAO snps? I see I have MAO-A rs2072743 CC but don't know what that means. Genetic Genie and MTHFR Support only report on MAO A R297R which I am TT.

 

[jepps]

Hello musicchick,
Concerning MAO risk alleles, I refer to the post of snowathlethe, Post 5.

To find the risk allele we have to read the dbSNP research paper.

You are right, wikipedia tells that MAO B deactivates histamine, I didn´t know, thank you. I do not know exactly the effects of MAO-mutations. They lower BH4, and one should take 5-HTP. And the MAO regulates with progressing methylation.

Regards, jepps

 

[musicchick581]

@jepps I took Neuroreplete with 5htp for years and it did very little to help my panic/anxiety. I took it with Vitaprime which has 400 mcg methylfolate and 50mcg methyl/adenosyl cobalmin as well as 100 mcg molybdenum. I would imagine the rest of the methylation cycle must be working properly in order for the 5htp to work.

 

[jepps]

musicchick, did you try GABA? Maybe you have a glutamate-toxicity?