Ron Davis Hair Analysis (HTMA)

Does your hair and mineral analysis show low manganese, copper and selenium?

  • Yes - for all three

    Votes: 5 41.7%
  • Yes to two

    Votes: 3 25.0%
  • Yes to one

    Votes: 2 16.7%
  • No to all three.

    Votes: 2 16.7%

  • Total voters
    12
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Hoping this isn't old news. I hope not. But wanted to get peoples thoughts:


So I'm assuming this is newly published info.

Thought I'd check my htma from this year and my god it's bang on what the article says. Low manganese, low selenium and low copper:

Screenshot_2022-06-10-15-10-50-09_e2d5b3f32b79de1d45acd1fad96fbb0f.jpg

I know the selenium isn't that low however this samples from 2021 and I might have been supplementing with selenium back then.

I wonder what other people's htma's show on this forum?

I've never supplemented manganese or copper. Although my diet was pretty high in manganese I think last year.

My issue though with all this is whilst the statistical significance must be important. As far as I'm concerned htma's show binding levels - what your body is excreting. So doesn't this mean a few things a) it's holding onto the low ones b) it's simply not got a lot of them in the first place. But which is it?

So I decided to pull out my htma from 2018 to see how that compares which gives me a 4 year window:

Screenshot_2022-06-10-15-16-08-31_e2d5b3f32b79de1d45acd1fad96fbb0f.jpg


These values aren't wildly different but the copper is higher. I guess my selenium intake is maybe better than some people's. Assuming in Ron's analysis these levels were simply much lower.

--

As an aside supplementing copper is very tricky. I decided not to bother and bought Thorne biomins instead (which does have zinc and copper and iron in it).
 

BrightCandle

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I seem to have a wider range of issues but definitely copper, manganese and Selenium. This was taken when I was taking 2x Magnesium 1440mg daily and it was still on the low end and that is something I seem to burn through. I think the calcium was low as I was lactose intolerant when this was taken, I suspect its high now as I have been taking in a lot of dairy with the yoghurts and kefir. Still the big three I definitely have those at the low point, I supplement all three now.
Hair analysis.png
 
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Very interesting thread! I literally got some hair sampled today so will add my results in a couple of weeks.

I found this post from @pamojja has a lot of great information that could be of use here

https://forums.phoenixrising.me/thr...tivity-th-resistance.58209/page-9#post-973680

They share this quote from an article that is no longer online:

Hair analysis interpretation

Hair mineral analysis can be a useful laboratory test although it’s value depends on it’s interpretation. The following are quotes by Dr. William Walsh, Director of Research and Executive Director at The Pfeiffer Treatment Centre, on his view on hair analysis interpretation.

“Hair analysis ALONE is a very poor way to assess copper status. I say this after (a) evaluating more than 100,000 hair analyses, (b) developing the first high-quality hair standards (loaned to NIH and other researchers), and (c) performing numerous double-blind, controlled experiments involving hair chemistries. Findings of high Cu levels in hair are compromised by the many external sources of Cu which cannot be completely removed by washing. Low levels of Cu in hair and/or blood often are coincident with dangerous overloads of Cu in liver. Hair Cu values can provide information of clinical significance, but by itself is not clinically decisive.”

“Elevated hair magnesium nearly always means magnesium depletion in the body, presumably because of increased Mg excretion. The same is true of hair Calcium and hair Zinc.”

“An interesting aspect of Mn is that most persons with elevated Mn in hair have low Mn levels in blood. There are quite a few persons who believe that high Mn in the hair of behavior-disordered persons indicates a Mn overload. The opposite is true, most of the time.”

“Aluminum levels in hair present a challenging cross-contamination problem, since there is Al everywhere in our environment. I recommend a repeat hair test be done to insure that the Al result is real (unless you've already done this). I've evaluated more than 30,000 hair analyses and in my experience high aluminum levels usually cannot be replicated with repeat testing.”

“Uranium is an analysis that I have very little confidence in. I've done quality assurance testing of hair analysis labs and find some of the elements assays to be highly reliable and others to be nearly worthless. Uranium is NOT one of the good elements. Despite this, reported uranium levels usually are quite high in mining areas.... so there appears to be some QUALITATIVE significance to the uranium analysis..... but little QUANTITATIVE significance. Overall, I do not find the uranium assay to be of clinical value.”

“The "good" elements are Ca, Mg, Zn, Cu, Na, K, S, Mn, Fe, Pb, Se, P, and Cd.”

“Others that are decent (qualitative relevance) are Sb, As, Hg, Cr, Mo, Li, Ba, Ni, Sr, and Co.”

“Terrible assays (according to my tests) are: Al, Be, Bi, Pt, Th, Tl, U, Ag, Sn, Ti, V, B, I, Ge, Rb, and Zr.”

“We've obtained hair Zn and plasma Zn levels (simultaneously) about 40,000 times. Low hair Zn correlates beautifully with low plasma levels. However, very elevated Zn in hair nearly always means Zn deficiency and low plasma Zn levels. Most of the time this involves a pyrrole disorder which results in very high Zn excretion in urine (and hair). In a healthy person without a metal-metabolism problem, only about 4% of excreted Zn leaves through the kidneys.”

“I've done hair analysis proficiency testing for more than 25 years. I've never yet found a lab that can reliably assay barium in hair. The same is true of more than 10 other elements routinely reported by the hair analysis labs. Strontium has a history of strange results since typical levels are close to the detection limit for most labs.”

“Cu/Zn ratios in hair are very helpful in ADHD and behavior disorders..... but far less useful in ASD, depression, and schizophrenia.”

“I have no idea why the elevated Na & K levels in hair are associated with genius.”

I, and Dr. Walsh, recommend that practitioners use Doctors Data Inc. for hair analysis. They invented hair analysis in the 60’s and developed the original laboratory techniques.

Blake Graham, BSc (Honours), AACNEM
Clinical Nutritionist
Perth, Western Australia
And add
In my 9 year experience with HTMAs, the differentiation that high Ca, Zn and Mg in HTMA would mean low in blood was repeatedly confirmed through blood tests.
 
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Interesting and just highlights how misleading they could be.

So potentially manganese, copper and selenium are high in the blood not low. Pure speculation by me!

Thanks for the info.
Yeah no idea and it seems like there's no way to really know without extensive testing and corroboration of results until a standard understanding is developed.. But still good to see a commonality in pwME, hopefully something will come of it!
 
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My recent test show high copper, which is paradoxically copper deficiency. Started taking copper, upped my dose to 14mg and feeling great improvments in my energy, cognitive function, skin, joints and muscles feel stronger. I think copper is a big peace of my puzzle.


HTMA_J.png
 

Jyoti

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high copper, which is paradoxically copper deficiency.
I was told something similar. The practitioner who was working with me on this seemed convinced that everyone had low copper, it was just that sometimes the HTMA would show low copper and sometimes high, with the latter being an indication that it was low. I gave up on trying to follow that one.
 
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I was told something similar. The practitioner who was working with me on this seemed convinced that everyone had low copper, it was just that sometimes the HTMA would show low copper and sometimes high, with the latter being an indication that it was low. I gave up on trying to follow that one.
Haha yeah I've heard that too. High means you're losing too much through the hair. And low means you're low..
 

serg1942

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My recent test show high copper, which is paradoxically copper deficiency. Started taking copper, upped my dose to 14mg and feeling great improvments in my energy, cognitive function, skin, joints and muscles feel stronger. I think copper is a big peace of my puzzle.


View attachment 47959
It's great that you saw improvements from taking copper! Did your copper levels increase in the hair analysis? How did you control not to get excess of copper, by measuring serum copper and ceruloplasmin? Do you still take copper? Do the improvements remain?

I've always had low copper and I'm considering supplementing it.

Thank you
 

Oliver3

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It's great that you saw improvements from taking copper! Did your copper levels increase in the hair analysis? How did you control not to get excess of copper, by measuring serum copper and ceruloplasmin? Do you still take copper? Do the improvements remain?

I've always had low copper and I'm considering supplementing it.

Thank you
 

caledonia

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Hi, these tests are showing low (below 50%) for most minerals. When interpreted with Cutler's counting rules, this is a sign of mercury toxicity.

The best hair test for use with the counting rules is the Doctors Data Hair Toxic and Essential Elements. At least some of the purple tests could also be interpreted with the counting rules, but I'm not as versed in how to interpret them.