Reverse T3? Please help

[JasonPerth]

Hi everyone, im currently doing a protocol which i dont think is working at all. Anyway, months ago when seeing my doctor he looked into my thyroid which seemed normal besides Reverse T3
There was alot of skepticism online about Reverse T3 so i was super unsure

I had 795 pmol/L when normal range is 140-540

Im just wondering if it could have anything to do with my post viral MECFS? And if taking supplementation to supposedly improve my Rt3 levels can indeed make my health better?

I was prescribed 1 tablet per day and after 2 days i was waking up and vomiting alot at night and put it down to the thyroid drug. And i havnt tried it since after another doctor told me to stop (the doctor that has me on a protocol thats doing nothing for me)

 

[Garz]

decent article from what i think is one of the better functional medicine doctors ( also an actual MD) on thyroid issues

i am not sure if anyone has the true objective truth on endocrinology at present - its devilishly complex - but i have found this guy to be at least rational and evidence based - so is my general go to for thyroid issues.

he has a page on reverse T3 https://www.restartmed.com/what-is-reverse-t3/

its thought that when inflammation is high the body swings towards making more reverse T3 and less Normal T3 when it converts T4 to T3 ( it always makes some of both - but inflammation upsets the balance of how much of each)

the reverse T3 then blocks the normal T3 from working - so you can feel Hypothyroid with normal T3 levels

that's about the bones of it from memory

conventional endocrinologists are generally v poor in my experience - say things like

"we need you pancreases to hurry up and fail completely - so your T1 diabetes is easier to treat"

 

[Andryr]

I was prescribed 1 tablet per day

1 tablet of what?

 

[JasonPerth]

1 tablet of what?

From memory it was t3 compound

 

[Andryr]

Do you remember the T3 dose per tablet?

 

[JasonPerth]

T3 20MCG , Methocel 40% Capsule

 

[Garz]

i think exogenous T3 is often given to try to help with high reverse T3 - idea being if you body has enough T3 it will not try to convert more T4 to T3 ( and therefore not make more Rev T3) - so over time the reverse T3 should decline.

 

[Judee]

Not really answering your question but this website seems to have a lot of information on the mechanisms going on behind thyroid issues and also promotes thinking about thyroid treatment as individual based.

Here are some of the topics I pulled up when I entered "reverse t3" : https://thyroidpatients.ca/?s=reverse+t3

 

[JasonPerth]

i think exogenous T3 is often given to try to help with high reverse T3 - idea being if you body has enough T3 it will not try to convert more T4 to T3 ( and therefore not make more Rev T3) - so over time the reverse T3 should decline.

Wonder why it woke me up in the middle of the night 2 nights in a row to vomit. Never had that reaction with any other tablet ever before.

 

[Andryr]

Wonder why it woke me up in the middle of the night

Did you take your tablets in the morning or afternoon or when?

 

[JasonPerth]

I honestly cant recall! Im assuming it was just before bed or early morning.

 

[Andryr]

There is thing called thyroid storm (you may google it) - a bunch of symptoms connected to hyperthyroidism. You could have* experienced a sudden boost of T3 in your blood. Vomiting is only one symptom and there are more. You might have* had a heart attack actually. We don't know how exactly compound it was, that is why I asked when you were taking it.
A classis Dr.Wilson T3 protocol starts from compound 7.5 mcg twice daily which might prevent over-concentration. I am not sure starting from 20mcg once daily was a brilliant idea.
Anyway, take it with a grain of salt, I am not a doctor. I tried T3 (not compound) but I also take T4 which downplays the exogenous T3 effect.
*I am sorry, my English could be better.

 

[Inca]

If they think you have underactive thyroid, why didn't they prescribe Thyroxine??

Usually they don't prescribe T3 unless your body can't convert enough T4 to T3?

I have congential (from birth) Hypothyroidism and they only give me T4. When my thyroid levels are very low my fatigue is really bad and so is the brain fog. I've rarelyhad it toohigh but when it was I had symptoms like light headed, racing heart, increased blood pressure.

 

[JasonPerth]

B

If they think you have underactive thyroid, why didn't they prescribe Thyroxine??

Usually they don't prescribe T3 unless your body can't convert enough T4 to T3?

I have congential (from birth) Hypothyroidism and they only give me T4. When my thyroid levels are very low my fatigue is really bad and so is the brain fog. I've rarelyhad it toohigh but when it was I had symptoms like light headed, racing heart, increased blood pressure.

But my Thyroid levels are normal
Its only Reverse T3 which was high. And i was under the impression that the way to regulate this was to supplement with T3.

Perhaps the Poor rT3 reading is because of the conversion not being good?

Could it be any Mineral deficiency aswell playing apart, besides Stress/oxidative stress

I recently had a mineral test show Vhigh Zinc and High Copper
The rest are rather normal/abit low

 

[Garz]

Usually they don't prescribe T3 unless your body can't convert enough T4 to T3?

this is true

although the reasons for it are more financial in most countries
T4 is cheap and considered v safe - so that's what they give in the UK
T3 costs the NHS something like £200 per month so they will not even consider it for 90% of patients

however there are papers published showing that its simply not possible to get proper T3 levels in all tissues - like some important part of the brain - via T4 supplementation alone - and many people do not feel anything like normal on T4 therapy alone.

often if you see the same endocrinologist privately as you saw via the NHS - then they will prescribe T3 without hesitation.

in the above case though - T3 is at normal levels - but RT3 is blocking its action - hence hypo symptoms despite adequate T3

 

[Inca]

But my Thyroid levels are normal
Its only Reverse T3 which was high. And i was under the impression that the way to regulate this was to supplement with T3.

Perhaps the Poor rT3 reading is because of the conversion not being good?

Could it be any Mineral deficiency aswell playing apart, besides Stress/oxidative stress

I recently had a mineral test show Vhigh Zinc and High Copper
The rest are rather normal/abit low

If the conversion is not good but the thyroid levels are normal they need to do a full bloods panel that checks other stuff like Ferratin levels etc. I don't know what the medical system is in Australia...is it like US where you need to have private Insurance for any medical care?

DId they test your B12? that can cause alot of symptoms and medical issues if its not right. If your body can convert its best to let it because if you take T3 the conversion process becomes defunct because its not needed eventually.

There are some supplements that have ingredients that are supposed to help the conversion process (no T3 in) Maybe google what things help thyroid conversion and avoid foods that hinder it (at least for a short time to see if it will resolve itself naturally).

Like this https://www.restartmed.com/product/t3-conversion-booster/

 

[Inca]

this is true

although the reasons for it are more financial in most countries
T4 is cheap and considered v safe - so that's what they give in the UK
T3 costs the NHS something like £200 per month so they will not even consider it for 90% of patients

however there are papers published showing that its simply not possible to get proper T3 levels in all tissues - like some important part of the brain - via T4 supplementation alone - and many people do not feel anything like normal on T4 therapy alone.

often if you see the same endocrinologist privately as you saw via the NHS - then they will prescribe T3 without hesitation.

in the above case though - T3 is at normal levels - but RT3 is blocking its action - hence hypo symptoms despite adequate T3

I don't know where they're getting their T3 from at that price! Bodybuilders use T3 to lose weight fast before competitions you can buy packets of the tablets cheap on bodybuilding sites. For some reason you don't need a prescription for T3 in the UK (I've bought it before) but do for T4!

 

[JasonPerth]

Anyway- would this have anything to do with my MECFS? Or likely irrelevant?
Or unknown?
When i told the doc i stopped taking the T3 because i was very sick, we kinda gave up the RT3 avenue
The first thing he asked me was stress because im assuming that stress or anxiety is a common way for Rt3 to be high.
But im not stressed at all, just sick.

 

[Garz]

its an indication that something is out of whack - and can definitely make you feel fatigued
whether its the root cause or a downstream effect of something else that's driving the CFS symptoms is always hard to know - and is a bit of a journey of discovery

i believe that ME/CFS is not a single disease in the normal sense - but a syndrome - i.e. a set of symptoms that can be driven by a number of different root causes - they just look v similar because the body only has so many pathways - so if you trigger some of them you tend to get the same symptoms - even if the trigger / root cause is different - the pathways and therefore symptoms are much the same


inflammation is the most common driver for RT3 to be too high

this could be from a number of sources
-undiagnosed chronic infection
-gut issues - eg SIBO - leaky gut etc
-immune dysfunction
-toxins / pesticides / chemical exposure
-heavy metals
-mold exposure in those susceptible

in my case it was infection - that also caused secondary thyroid problems - as chronic infections are prone to do

 

[JasonPerth]

its an indication that something is out of whack - and can definitely make you feel fatigued
whether its the root cause or a downstream effect of something else that's driving the CFS symptoms is always hard to know - and is a bit of a journey of discovery

i believe that ME/CFS is not a single disease in the normal sense - but a syndrome - i.e. a set of symptoms that can be driven by a number of different root causes - they just look v similar because the body only has so many pathways - so if you trigger some of them you tend to get the same symptoms - even if the trigger / root cause is different - the pathways and therefore symptoms are much the same


inflammation is the most common driver for RT3 to be too high

this could be from a number of sources
-undiagnosed chronic infection
-gut issues - eg SIBO - leaky gut etc
-immune dysfunction
-toxins / pesticides / chemical exposure
-heavy metals
-mold exposure in those susceptible

in my case it was infection - that also caused secondary thyroid problems - as chronic infections are prone to do

Would that mean we all likely have high RT3 if we are bedbound/housebound with gut issues that are unknown/ANS dysautonomia related