Recurring hand tremors

[TigerLilea]

Probably the commonest tremor on trying to do things is benign essential tremor.

@littlebird6180 I never even thought of this. My dad had it for years in the one hand.

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

Lastly, wondering if anyone thinks hand tremors of this degree are a sign of parkinsons (I say that knowing full well nobody here is a doctor - and I plan on asking my doctor but just in the interim would love some personal perspective)

In case you are not clear, @littlebird6180, I am a doctor - a professor of medicine trained in neurology in London -but I am still not in a position to give you diagnostic advice as such.

 

[littlebird6180]

This is really interesting and raises some questions for me. I have a lot of kidney stones and frequently have episodes where I'm on vicodin or other drugs with tylenol (this concerns me because I have to stop the naltrexone for pain coping) - I also take advil pretty regularly. I just had a 7 day migraine too where I was taking a lot of drugs round the clock. I wonder if it could be related to those medications. I've been off that all now for about a week so maybe things will get better?

my ME doctor is really conservative with the doses of supplements because I'm very sensitive so I'm often on a fraction of the doses that are recommended and slowly build my way up.

 

[Jonathan Edwards]

If my memory was better, I could better pinpoint when these symptoms began. The tremor seems like it's been around for a year, maybe two but it's gotten significantly worse in the past couple months. The biggest differences in the last year is that I started the beta blocker and fludrocortisone (and I got a Loop recorder implanted in my chest). The tremor is the same in both hands.

Anyway, as I said, I'll post back once I've had the neurology work up. My ME doc said the key is determining whether this is muscular or nerve related before figuring out how best to treat it. It's certainly hard having two little kids and having ME, let alone feeling (at times) like they have to see my hands shaking so much. My oldest (age 6) is always worried about my health so symptoms I can't hide from her are the worst

A side effect of drugs would be another top thought for a cause of tremor.

Tremors do not normally occur with muscle disease unless there is very severe weakness and even then it is not normally described by the person as a tremor.

 

[littlebird6180]

Can't figure out how to insert a quote...sorry! But Jonathan, yes, of course I realize that. And again, please be assured that I am seeing a doctor (several actually). Only come here for additional perspective.

 

[littlebird6180]

Yes, I'm going to discuss with my doctor about side effects. I hope it's something they're able to pinpoint a cause for. I didn't mention but I'm a designer/artist so having a tremor is really interfering with that...and so many other things. Not being able to text too because my thumb (and other fingers) are shaking so hard is when it's the most extreme. If I place my hands flat on a table or on my lap, the tremor seems to stop.

 

[Chocolove]

@littlebird6180 There are several websites that one can use to cross check drugs, supplements and some foods for
side effects, interactions and contraindications. www.drugs.com is one site that I have used where you can plug in a list of drugs at once rather than trying to do one on one comparisons yourself that would take quite a while.

Since everyone's biochemistry and situation is different tracking your own reactions to things is of course very important.

Suzy Cohen, RPh, has been a licensed pharmacist for more than 22 years wrote the book, "Drug Muggers," wherein she explains that many drugs create nutrient depletion and describes which medications interfere with which nutrients and how to reverse the problems with smarter nutrition. I have no affiliation with her or anyone whose information which I have noted may be of interest.
https://www.amazon.com/Drug-Muggers-Medications-Essential-Nutrients/dp/1605294160

 

[Chocolove]

@littlebird6180 Regarding benign essential tremor, you may find these sites and articles of interest:

http://www.essentialtremorinfo.org/vitaminb12bet.htm

• Tremors - Ask a Naturopath
  www.askanaturopath.com/faqs/tremors/p/425
  Benign essential tremors. Benign essential tremor, ... overactive thyroid, Magnesium or B Vitamin deficiency. ... Possible causes of tremors.

• Nutrient Depletions In Hashimoto's Thyroiditis: Selenium
  thyroidpharmacist.com/articles/nutrient-depletions-in-hashimotos...
  Nutrient depletions are common in ... severe muscle/joint pain, tremors/shaking, lightheadedness ... supplement and the book will help uncover your root cause.

http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/expert.q.a/04/07/hand.tremors.brawley/index.html

http://www.aafp.org/afp/2011/0315/p697.html

 

[Chocolove]

"Magnesium Deficiency Statistics

• 2 out of 3 Americans do not consume the Recommended Dietary Intake (RDI) for magnesium, 500 milligrams of magnesium per day.

And for those headed to the Hospital:

• 92% of Patients, when hospitalized, routinely do NOT have their Magnesium levels tested.
• Furthermore, 80% of patients in an ICU setting are considered Magnesium deficient."

Magnesium Deficiency Symptoms
The following table includes a list of progressive symptoms that are directly related to Magnesium deficiency according to the scientific literature of the past hundred years.

See table at:
http://gotmag.org/magnesium-deficiency-101/

 

[littlebird6180]

@Chocolove I appreciate the time you are taking to share the info. I can assure you that my doctor is very tuned in and aware of any potential deficiencies. As I said, right now I need to determine whether this is muscular or nerve related - if it's the latter, magnesium won't make a difference.

In the meantime, I'm taking everything my doctor instructed.

 

[Chocolove]

right now I need to determine whether this is muscular or nerve related - if it's the latter, magnesium won't make a difference.

I'm very happy to hear you have confidence in your doctor and are following your doctor's recommendations.

However I am puzzled as to why you think that magnesium will not make a difference if it is muscular or nerve related.

"Magnesium is vital for the nervous system, muscle contraction"... "Magnesium is important to neuromuscular transmission...."
From: http://www.vitamins-nutrition.org/vitamins/magnesium.html

"Magnesium Sulfate - Clinical Pharmacology
Magnesium is an important cofactor for enzymatic reactions and plays an important role in neurochemical transmission and muscular excitability.

As a nutritional adjunct in hyperalimentation, the precise mechanism of action for magnesium is uncertain. Early symptoms of hypomagnesemia (less than 1.5 mEq/L) may develop as early as three to four days or within weeks.

Predominant deficiency effects are neurological, e.g., muscle irritability, clonic twitching and tremors. Hypocalcemia and hypokalemia often follow low serum levels of magnesium. While there are large stores of magnesium present intracellularly and in the bones of adults, these stores often are not mobilized sufficiently to maintain plasma levels. Parenteral magnesium therapy repairs the plasma deficit and causes deficiency symptoms and signs to cease."
From: https://www.drugs.com/pro/magnesium-sulfate.html

"THE HEALTH OF THE NERVES
...one nutrient that recent research has found to be lacking in the diets of most people, and which lack may be the cause, of so much nervous illness, is magnesium. Information on, the essentiality of magnesium to the nerves was published by Penn and Loewenstein of Columbia University in Science (January, 1966),...

Calms the Nerves
Magnesium works in other ways to preserve the health of the nervous system. By the twentieth century, doctors had learned that magnesium injections exert a depressant effect upon the nerves. In fact, one of the early uses of the mineral was to induce sleep. It is significant that hibernating animals have very high magnesium levels. Magnesium has also been shown effective in controlling convulsions, in pregnant women, epileptic seizures, and "the shakes" in alcoholics.

Yet one of the paradoxical effects of the mineral upon the nerves is that a magnesium-deficient person who takes magnesium feels more energetic than before, even though the mineral is a depressant and not a stimulant. Actually, magnesium relieves the nervous irritability and excessive energy that give rise to fatigue in the first place.

It should not be surprising, then, that when a person's magnesium level is subnormal, the nerves are unable to control such functions as muscle movement, respiration, and mental processes. Twitching, irregular heartbeat, irritability, and nervous fatigue are symptoms of what is frequently found to be magnesium depletion...

The fact is that, as new studies are published and new discoveries made, it is becoming clearer and clearer that magnesium is one of the basic nutrients needed for a healthy nervous system and therefore almost any affliction in any part of the body might turn out to be actually an illness of the nerves that are involved because they are deficient in magnesium.

Most often, deficiency is simply a result of failure to obtain adequate magnesium from such dietary sources as wheat germ, cocoa, desiccated liver, eggs, green vegetables, soybeans, and almonds. In some instances, however, absorption of nutrients can be impaired by coexisting illness, such as an intestinal infection. In such an event, much of the ingested magnesium may be lost from the body....

A Host of Disorders
A case history presented in the Archives of Neurology (June, 1965) by Dr. Robert Fishman of New York illustrates just how "inadequate dietary intake coupled with excess gastrointestinal loss" can lead to a host of nervous disorders....

in the October 1, 1966, issue of The Lancet. It was the opinion of Dr. Caddell that magnesium deficiency was probably involved because of the essential role of magnesium in the biosynthesis and activation of thiamine pyrophosphate. . . . What she was really saying was that sometimes a thiamine deficiency is caused by a deficiency of magnesium and therefore it will not be cured by the administration of thiamine alone.

Epilepsy is one good example of this. As far back as recorded history goes, the "falling disease" has been one of the great mysteries of medicine. While dozens and hundreds of other illnesses responded to investigation, epilepsy remained unexplained and untreatable by any known method. It, is only within the past year that there has been published work revealing that epilepsy is accompanied by a lower than normal level of magnesium in the spinal fluid, and that administration of magnesium can be expected to bring about quick improvement.

It is a field that still requires much investigation, but present indications are that deficient magnesium in the spine, and the subsequent effect on major nerves of the spine running to and from the brain, may be the actual cause of epilepsy. Later in this book we will see that this work emerging from the Hereford Clinic and Deaf Smith Research Foundation in Hereford, Texas, under the direction of Lewis B. Barnett, M.D., further establishes wide-range effects that magnesium nutrition has on the nervous system.

If additional evidence were needed that healthy nerves require magnesium, it would certainly be supplied by the recent investigational studies entering into the development of "memory pills" at the Abbott Laboratories in Chicago. Memory, of course, is one of the primary and most important functions of the human nervous system. And the stimulant to memory and other mental function that is being developed at Abbott has magnesium as its basis.

In other recent studies we have learned that the motor nerves--those that carry messages by electrical impulse from the brain to the muscles--are dependent on magnesium for the ability to conduct these minute electrical messages properly. Now we are learning that magnesium is equally important to the central nervous system (spinal cord), and to the brain itself.

Add to this the essentiality of the same mineral for hard healthy bones and teeth and for the functioning of many of our enzyme systems, and we believe it becomes perfectly clear that a person would have to be a fool to take any chance on not getting enough magnesium for even a single day."

From:http://www.mgwater.com/rod06.shtml
Book: Magnesium, The Nutrient That Could Change Your Life
6. THE HEALTH OF THE NERVES
MAGNESIUM ONLINE LIBRARY

 

[Valentijn]

However I am puzzled as to why you think that magnesium will not make a difference if it is muscular or nerve related.

I think it's a matter of physiology versus anatomy. If there is damage to the actual nerves or muscles, magnesium isn't going to repair it. Magnesium would treat physiological disorders, namely magnesium deficiency.

"... we believe it becomes perfectly clear that a person would have to be a fool to take any chance on not getting enough magnesium for even a single day."

I believe that source sounds like a bit of a dick Calling people fools isn't going to accomplish much.

And ... not everything is about magnesium, or thiamine, or anything else. The huge data dumps create a lot of spam without much meaning.

 

[Chocolove]

If there is damage to the actual nerves or muscles, magnesium isn't going to repair it.

I suggest that you read up on the medical literature, and published peer reviewed medical studies if you think magnesium is not a significant factor in repair. For example...

"Magnesium supplements are also effective in the treatment of patients with congestive heart failure and cardiomyopathy. Patients with very diseased hearts, especially those undergoing cardiac transplantation, typically have low levels of magnesium and coenzyme Q10 in their myocardial cells.

In addition, magnesium supplements can prevent or reduce the severity of life-threatening ventricular arrhythmias that often occur after heart surgery, chiefly through its membrane-stabilizing effect and ability to maintain intracellular potassium, another crucial mineral for the heart. Some enlightened cardiac surgeons administer magnesium intravenously prior to bypass surgery.

Other research shows that a magnesium/selenium supplement combination can also be useful in treating ventricular arrhythmias...

Among the top nutrients for heart health, the benefits of magnesium supplements really stand out. Magnesium is used in scores of enzymatic reactions, and it’s necessary for normal muscle function. Unfortunately for many people, they’re seriously low on this mineral.

A shortage can cause or worsen congestive heart failure, atherosclerosis, chest pain (coronary vasospasm), high blood pressure, cardiac arrhythmias, heart muscle disease (cardiomyopathy), heart attack and even sudden cardiac death. - Cadiologist Stephen Sinatra
From: http://www.drsinatra.com/benefits-of-magnesium-supplements-for-heart-health/
*******************************************

"The Effect of Magnesium Salts on Peripheral Nerve Repair with Magnesium Microfilaments
Tracy Hopkins, MS; Kevin J. Little, MD; David Hom, MD; Sarah Pixley, PhD
University of Cincinnati, Cincinnati, OH
Introduction: Peripheral nerve injuries resulting in an unrepairable nerve gap are difficult to treat. Currently available biomaterial solutions are hollow nerve conduits, but these conduits are effective only for nerve gaps of < 3 centimeters. Bioresorbable magnesium (Mg) metal microfilaments have been shown previously to improve nerve regeneration, but are limited by rapid absorption. The addition of magnesium salts may carry the same beneficial effects towards nerve regeneration, and may also limit the speed of microfilament resorption in vivo. To test this hypothesis, we repaired 10 mm gaps in rat sciatic nerves using silicone conduits filled with magnesium microfilaments and saline or magnesium salts (2 mM MgSO4 in saline).
Materials and Methods: 10 mm nerve gaps were created in the sciatic nerves of adult male Lewis rats, and divided into 4 groups of 6 rats each. Silicone nerve conduits were sutured into the gaps and were filled with Mg microfilaments (99.9% pure, 250µm diameter): 1) empty conduit with saline filler, 2) Mg filament plus saline, 3) empty conduit with Mg salts (2 mM MgSO4 in saline), or 4) Mg filament plus Mg salts. After sacrifice at 6 weeks, nerves were removed, fixed, imaged by iodine-enhanced micro computed-tomography (microCT) then either paraffin embedded, sectioned and stained with H&E, or osmicated, embedded in resin, sectioned and stained with toluidine blue.
Results: In empty guides filled at surgery with saline or MgSO4, significant tissue strands, with myelinated axons, formed in 5/6 animals at 6 weeks after surgery, as shown by iodine contrast-enhanced micro computed tomography followed by histology. In guides with saline and a magnesium wire, only 2/6 animals, showed tissue strands. But in guides with MgSO4 solution and the magnesium wire, the number increased back to 5/6 animals with tissue strands. Myelinated axons in mini-fascicles that are typical of regenerating nerves were detected in all tissue strands that were intact across the gaps.
Conclusion: Increasing the concentration of magnesium ions at the time of magnesium metal implantation has a beneficial effect on nerve repair using magnesium metal wire. Magnesium ions may improve cell attachment to the microfilament, as the ions are known to be important for integrin function and cell attachment. Further testing to evaluate the most effective concentrations of magnesium salts is planned.

I've made a lot of improvements with my CFS/ME in the past year but I've had really extreme hand tremors that come and go. They get so bad at times, I can't text or even hold my phone that well. Magnesium sometimes helps

Happily, @littlebird6180 has noticed positive effects from magnesium. It is very encouraging, especially since supplementation is so inexpensive. In the light of research and her personal response, I find it reasonable to be optimistic that magnesium may be very helpful to her.

 

[Valentijn]

@Chocolove - Maybe you could start your own thread about those issues, instead of hijacking numerous other threads that are only tenuously related.

 

[Chocolove]

Fludrocortisone (aka Florinef)

"Are any nutrients depleted by this medication?
Some medications can affect vitamin and nutrient levels in the body. Below is a list of nutrient depletions associated with this medication. Talk to your doctor or pharmacist about whether taking a supplement is recommended or if you have any questions or concerns.

Florinef may deplete vitamin D

How can this nutrient deficiency impact me?
Vitamin D is a key nutrient in the balance of calcium and phosphorus in the body. It plays an important role in the growth and maintenance of bone, especially in children and individuals at risk of osteoporosis. Vitamin D deficiency can increase the risk of broken bones, or it can cause diseases like rickets in children or osteomalacia or osteoporosis in adults. Talk to your Rexall™ Pharmacist about vitamin D deficiency. Vitamin D is available as a supplement, such as Rexall™ D. Before starting any nutrient supplement, always talk with your Rexall™ Pharmacist.

Florinef may deplete calcium

How can this nutrient deficiency impact me?
Calcium is a mineral nutrient needed for the growth and maintenance of bones and teeth, especially in children, during pregnancy, and while breast-feeding. It helps prevent bone loss and osteoporosis, and it plays an important role in muscles and blood clotting. Calcium deficiency can result in softening of bone or an increase in the risk of bone fractures. Talk to your Rexall™ Pharmacist about calcium deficiency. Calcium is available as a supplement, such as Rexall™ Naturals Calcium Carbonate. Before starting any nutrient supplement, always talk with your Rexall™ Pharmacist.

Florinef may deplete magnesium

How can this nutrient deficiency impact me?
Magnesium is a nutrient important to the body's metabolism, energy production, and detoxification. It also is involved in the production of some hormones as well as healthy bones and teeth. Magnesium helps to control blood pressure and maintain heart health. Magnesium deficiency can increase the risk of stomach disorders, osteoporosis, high blood pressure, stroke, and heart attack. Magnesium is available in supplements such as Rexall™ Magnesium Citrate. Before starting any nutrient supplement, always talk with your Rexall™ Pharmacist.

WARNING: Stopping this medication suddenly can cause unwanted side effects. Do not stop taking this medication without talking to your doctor. If you need to stop taking this medication, your doctor will tell you how to do so safely.

From: http://www.rexall.ca/articles/view/2808/Florinef

If one is already magnesium deficient, then this drug would be at issue.

 

[Dr.Patient]

I have had tremors of hands, mouth, head and neck, since the onset of my relapse, showing up when the fatigue gets severe. I know they are from autonomic nervous system dysfunction, and not due to any other cause. Since I am a physician as well, I chose not to undergo any tests or treatments, since I know they will not help. When my ME gets better, the tremors will go away. I'm not alarmed by them.

 

[Kati]

I have had tremors of hands, mouth, head and neck, since the onset of my relapse, showing up when the fatigue gets severe. I know they are from autonomic nervous system dysfunction, and not due to any other cause. Since I am a physician as well, I chose not to undergo any tests or treatments, since I know they will not help. When my ME gets better, the tremors will go away. I'm not alarmed by them.

However, @Dr.Patient you cannot say that what you think is happening for you is the same thing for all patients, you know? I do not mean that this is the case here, but some patients that hang out here go on getting other diagnosis, or develop something else that is not ME.

When someone tells about not being able to hand a phome because they are shaking too much, you know, this has to be investigated properly. This is not your regular type of ME.

Making a judgement about what a stranger has, even if you are a doctor with similar symptoms, is unethical. Like i mentioned earlier, there are different flavors of chest pain. Someone minimizing chest pain saying they probably got costochondritis maybe very wrong, and there you have a person suffering from a heart attack who took Ibuprofen and waited it out until it was too late.

It is very tricky to play guessing game when patients' lives are at stake.

 

[littlebird6180]

@Chocolove please stop copying and pasting from studies. I came here asking for personal perspective - I believe I made that clear a few times...can google things and find articles and read them. I'm not trying to replace my doctor or research, I'm trying only to get PERSONAL insight. The amount of things you've copied and pasted is really overwhelming and it's a constant implication that my doctor doesn't know what's best or is giving me bad information and I should listen to you over them. That's not going to happen.

What I've taken away from this thread is that tremors as severe as mine get aren't a common symptom of ME and need further medical evaluation. It's helpful for me to hear that others have had similar experiences and what helped them but this doesn't mean I'm NOT going to see or keep my faith in my doctor. Thanks again to everyone for the helpful input.

 

[Chocolove]

@littlebird6180 I am sorry that you have misinterpreted me. As I have clearly said multiple times before in this thread I am very glad you are in consultation with doctors and are following their recommendations. I would never presume to know enough about you to take over your medical direction - please do not insinuate such. Nor do I have any interest in wasting my time to badger or overwhelm anyone, obviously everyone here is able to google. (The particular links I provided are not meant to overwhelm but to provide quick and easy access to magnesium research and information in the future event you might have the time and interest to review draw your own conclusions.)


As you are interested in personal accounts, the observations below regarding reactions to a magnesium product are very pertinent, with strikingly parallel observations regarding your symptoms as stated:

It can be really hard as an ME patient to prioritize symptoms to address - from bladder issues, body aches, memory loss, brain fog, tachycardia, dizziness, migraines...

(Please that I am not associated with any of the commenters, have no affiliation with company making the product they are discussing, and have in fact never tried this particular magnesium product myself.)

Here are just a fraction of many comments about multiple magnesium products - which observe relief from your stated symptoms. That's significant and worthy of review.

5.0 out of 5 starsThis stuff is amazing!! I'd done quite a bit of research ...
ByMonica Son August 30, 2016
Verified Purchase
This stuff is amazing!! I'd done quite a bit of research so I kind of knew what to expect but it completely surpassed our expectations. I have some spinal injuries and torn muscles in a couple of places in my back due to an accident several years ago. Unfortunately I have to use pretty strong painkillers to deal with the pain. I used about 6 sprays of the magnesium oil I made (1/2 C boiling water + 1/2 C magnesium flakes) and my husband massaged it in. Within 15-20 minutes the pain was gone...not just better...GONE! Thought the relief would only last a couple of hours (which would've been fine) but it actually lasted about 8 hours. If I overexert those muscles they start to ache again but if I can just relax for about half an hour, the pain subsides again without using more oil. My husband also uses the oil for his shoulders and our daughter uses it for her knees after a workout. Also, we noticed a more relaxed, calming feeling that allows us to fall asleep more easily. Just be careful and start with a small number of sprays (5 - 10 should be a good starting point). Too much will send you to the bathroom...lol. So remember that if you rub it in on someone else, that adds to the amount you absorb.


5.0 out of 5 starsWorks like a miracle!! Because it is one!
ByMark A. Lingleon January 11, 2014
Verified Purchase
Been suffering from migraines for 12 years and doctors have offered me no hope. Never could find a reason and I know it was from muscles and alignment or something like that out of alignment. I sprayed on my neck in a 20% solution flakes to 80% water in a spray bottle and carried it around. Whenever I felt tension in my neck I sprayed it on and that tension just melted away. That's all I was after but low and behold I stopped getting my migraines after one month of use! That's one hell of a side effect.... lol So glad I accidentally discovered this cure! Migraine free for 3 1/2 years now and I used to get them 3 times a week on average for over 12 years!! I read magnesium can only be absorbed readily by our largest organ...... our Skin!

5.0 out of 5 starsGood For Making My Own Magnesium Oil
ByAnonymousShopperon January 10, 2016
Verified Purchase
I can't tolerate oral magnesium supplements, they give me the trots.

I dissolve 1 1/2 cups of these flakes in 3/4 cup boiling water, heat & stir until dissolved.

I then mix this solution with 16 oz of Cetaphil Cream to create a lotion that I use on my calves twice daily. It prevents leg cramps and heart palpitations at night and gives me more control over bladder leakage. This also keeps my lower back from becoming so stiff and painful, and difficult to move. Without this, I would be in agony.


5.0 out of 5 starsPretty much life changing stuff
ByYayaon October 23, 2015
Verified Purchase
Pretty much life changing stuff. I was having terrible anxiety and panic attacks. A combination of stress, antibiotics and vitamin D supplements had drained my magnesium stores making me feel dizzy, panicky and I had terrible leg cramps. A month after using this stuff combined with the oil, I feel like a different person. Fixed me right up. Even though the doctor told me my levels weren't too low, I knew I needed it. And I was right.
***********************************************************************************************************************************
I am actually trying to productively shoulder some of the load and help because I too have long suffered and greatly sympathize. Best wishes. I shall not trouble you further.

 

[Valentijn]

Nor do I have any interest in wasting my time to badger or overwhelm anyone, obviously everyone here is able to google.

It may not be your intent, but that is the effect your posts are having.