Recovery by Physical trauma/pain?

jpcv

Senior Member
Messages
367
Likes
771
Location
SE coast, Brazil
In the comment section in JAMA´s recent paper by Dr. Komaroff there is a very intriguing letter from a retired pysician.
He says he encountered three patients who had a remission from ME after serious illnes or physycal trauma:
-peritonitis
-Broken arm
-Severe burning of the hand
The peritonitis case is interesting in that the patient felt that she was in remission as soon as she recovered from anaesthesia, just like J.Brea described her case after CCI surgery.
It makes one wonder...
 

vision blue

Senior Member
Messages
218
Likes
204
Interstinly, i posted i think jsust last week on this forum that a pain of 9 out of 10 on the pain scale did something dramatic to my symptoms and turned off my overactive sympathetic nervous system. aggravating/injured nerves in neck/shoulder and felt an explosion in my shoulder overnight. but its like it pushed a reset button. Am waiting for it to wear off. its not like i'm cured but something feels reset - at least for a few days. Since the worst of the pain was over in 60 seconds top, i would gladly do that again despite the fact i was screaming in my sleep from the pain - say once a month - if it keeps resetting a sticky button. IWill read the article.
 

vision blue

Senior Member
Messages
218
Likes
204
@Strawberry

Good point. i've been sick for 25 years too and have had my share of unrelated (I think) agonies as well - but this never happened before. I've been joking that i finally found my reset button and I knew i always had one...

for me, i was thiniking i managed to get the right spot and have also been sayingmaybe i gave myself a stellate ganglion block which is known for shutting off the sympathetic nervous system (and is currently being used to treat PTSD patients). the spot was very close to that i think. or was thinking its entirely possible that a "blockage" in shoulder/neck area (been having lots of problems was a cause of my sympathetic excess and now i "unblocked" it. Another possiblity is that my immune system is simply busy doing something else like trying to repair damaged connective tissue and stuff so i'm not feeling the usual 24/7 chest discomfort and inability to rest in my own skin.

but i like the concept and will try to read the article.
 

Wishful

Senior Member
Messages
1,687
Likes
2,707
It looks like another example of how ME can abruptly switch states, given an appropriate trigger. We really should collect all the reports of remission triggers. Maybe a common element will show up.

I've had a bout of severe pain in the last few years, but it didn't do anything for my ME symptoms.
 

Pearshaped

still looking for the Reset button
Messages
160
Likes
275
Location
Switzerland
I am wondering if some of these "remissions" lasted. (if so, hurray!)

Could it have smthg.to do with adrenaline or cortisol? Or do you thimk this is simply an immuno.response?

before i became severe i had a lot of incidents where i felt suddenly much better after an additional physical stressor(migraines,appointments etc)
but the better i was feeling after the stressor the more downhill it got afterwards.. familiar
 

vision blue

Senior Member
Messages
218
Likes
204
@Wishful I'd love to read more on how it can "switch states" if you know of anything written. I had a major shift in symptoms 5 years ago following a recurrent virus. And others i know report that when one set of ysmptoms is up another is down like a see saw. Conventional docs just stare at their shoes when i try to bring this up.

@Pearshaped (i'm apple shaped myself...). i know that post-crash after adreniline energy thing that you mean.
I agree would be nice to know if remissions are long lasting.
I don't consider this a remission, but really did feel like one particular nasty stuck on swtich suddenly shut off and i don't think it was coincidence. I also do not think it was permanant.

its all gotten me thinking though. if ME?CFS only arises from a perfect storm of conditions, then perhaps withink ME/CFS it only changes through yet another set of perfect storm conditions. I don't believe that, but its intersting.

M;y sympathetic nervous system did shut off once before- had acute sinusitis and anitbiotic. Was first time I really slept well in a couple of years. it was amazing. For a year they SNS was turned off, but in its places was absolutely awful connective tissue pain and stiffness that lead me chasing Rheumatoid Factor, anti CCP antibodies and all manner of investigations. they thought maybe was post viral arthritis and i insisted i was not hla b-27 but agreed to test anyway. of course when that was negtive they ignored my "i told you so" and just lost interest. That lasted until i wound up in the ER with sympathetic nervous system spell which was nearly one year later. and then the sympathetic system was on ON and completely replaced the arthritis symptoms and has been that way continously since november 2017. ok, sorry for long descritpion.
 

Wishful

Senior Member
Messages
1,687
Likes
2,707
I haven't come across any formal papers discussing the state switching. There have been numerous mentions of it here on PR, particularly in threads about remissions.

I've had shifts in symptoms; one dramatic (the type IV sensitivity vanished), and others that were more gradual. Some symptoms go away for a while, then come back for a visit. Definitely not a simple disaease.
 

vision blue

Senior Member
Messages
218
Likes
204
@Wishful @Pearshaped
All good points. I don't usually read the posts on remission- perhaps i'm too envious like watching others get out of prison can't be much fun. But will start looking at them i think - could well be that when people talk of remission, its merely a state switch to another set of symptoms they find less devestating.

i wonder also about adreneniline and related catecholamines. i actually had a "state switch" literally mid stride recently. was the strangest thing. First a couple months back aI sad a switch that after decades allowed me to walk more than 1/2 a block. so was thorougly using and enjoying that (inidentally, i could see soemone falsely calling that a "remission") and was even walking to a nearby grocery store and a park. was amazing (I used to hike regularly and loss of walking was a big one). Was on my way home and sudenlty...sudeenly... it really and truly was like someone pulled the plug out of the wall. mid stride. my walking slowed to a snail pace (one of the things that had happened when i was able to walk again was a restoration of abilityto walk FAST something i lost too for years and years). The contrast was so striking. try as i might, could not walk faster. Plus suddenly had pains all over - was just incredible.
so i was thining i was really having wild swings in norepineprhine levels. the pains and slow walking were when the excess nor epi finally all disappated.

(I did go back to my newfound walking ability, but there's an odd irony- i injured my knee and can't walk. hard just getting around house. don't know what's wrong with it and since i cannot do surgery or even tolerate a brace, and in the past have gotten injured from PT i may have to live with it. So more to mourn. knew the walking ability wouldn't laste forever, though didn't thijnk would end like this)

Anyway, sorry for long message. i really like the state swtich stuff. people with trheeumatological autoimmune illnesses also report this, though only 1 in 10 docs acknowldeges it.