Question on PK diet

[FinRinTin]

Research has shown that ME/CFS patients are short of several amino acids. To stay in ketosis one must be fairly low in protein also.

Are you sure you're in ketosis?

And are you taking supplements to make up for the nutrients not in this radical diet, like folate, B5, biotin, alpha lipoic acid, vitamin E, molybdenum, iodine to name just a few?

.

I don't know for sure if I'm in Ketosis but it's highly likely.

Regarding protein: this is a misconception. The important factor is the amount of carbs per day.
It's not a fixed value but 20g is a level which keeps almost everyone in ketosis.
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To illustrate my level of nutrients I've added two screenshots of a report of the app I use for tracking ( Cronometer).
And yes, I take supplements... more than I like to admit ;-)
Multivitamin, Magnesium, Vit D3, Vit B12, Curcumin, Thiamin, Nac, Vit C, etc...
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Unfortunately since living with CFS my intellectual capacities have degraded massively.
Therefore usually - if something seems worth a shot - I try it and see if it has any benefits.

With Keto I've improved quite a lot - especially in the beginning - but even after a year it's a positive factor.

As always it's not a cure but helpful.
With NAC + LDN it has helped the most.

 

[Learner1]

Looks like you're short of several nutrients found in plant based foods. Additionally, cronometer only reports on your % of the DV for nutrients - I've found throigh repeated comprehensive nutrient testing my body needs a lot more of many nutrients because my illness has increased my nutrient needs

20g of carbs a day is ultra low and if done over time can trash one's adrenals. I have a friend, who 3 years after being on a diet like this and seeing several specialists is 35lbs overweight with very abnormal adrenal function.

Without enough carbs, glycogen storage on muscles suffers, reducing ability to exercise.

As for protein, I've found, by running out of various amino acids with symptoms and labs that day so, that I need between 95 and 120g of protein a day.

To stay in ketosis, one needs fat to be high. Adding protein decreases the fat% so that on the same amount of calories, it bumps one out of ketosis.

I've experimented with diet and found that 50-55% fat, 20-25% protein and 25% carbs works best for me and is sustainable and allows me to meet all the nutrient goals in Cronometer, though I still supplement with high doses of some nutrients due to my increased micronutrient needs.

 

[FinRinTin]

@Learner1
Thanks for your reply.
Unfortunately in my current state I'm not able to discuss this topic in depth.
One point where is disagree is "To stay in ketosis, one needs fat to be high"

To me the important factor seems to be the amount of carbs per day you ingest.
This is from the Keto Reddit sub: "While your personal carb threshold may be higher, 20g nearly ensures you will be in ketosis".

I know that Keto is a radical diet.
Last month my diet was 75% fat, 16% protein and 9% carbs.
As a half italian quitting pasta wasn't easy

But as always in ME/CFS there is no one holding your hand and telling you what works.

For example you've written "20g of carbs a day is ultra low and if done over time can trash one's adrenals" and that for sure made me nervous

But as usual when I'm searching in Google there are hits for your assumption and there are some hits that argue that Keto can ease adrenal fatigue.

 

[hb8847]

But as usual when I'm searching in Google there are hits for your assumption and there are some hits that argue that Keto can ease adrenal fatigue.

Exactly. Diet science is very murky, there are advocates on both sides of nearly every diet going. Which is why I said I wouldn't worry about it too much - humans are omnivores, we are built to be able to survive off most kinds of (natural) foods, and it's far more important what you're avoiding (sugar, processed) than what specific ratio of healthy foods you are consuming.

 

[FinRinTin]

Exactly. Diet science is very murky, there are advocates on both sides of nearly every diet going.

Thanks.
The problem is my(our) inability to tolerate stress.
Every new theory creates uncertainty and therefore a mini-crash.

Perhaps this is the reason why sometimes in our circles the discussions get so heated: everyone tries to defend their approach to avoid a PEM

 

[anne_likes_red]

Looks like you're short of several nutrients found in plant based foods. Additionally, cronometer only reports on your % of the DV for nutrients - I've found throigh repeated comprehensive nutrient testing my body needs a lot more of many nutrients because my illness has increased my nutrient needs

20g of carbs a day is ultra low and if done over time can trash one's adrenals. I have a friend, who 3 years after being on a diet like this and seeing several specialists is 35lbs overweight with very abnormal adrenal function.

Without enough carbs, glycogen storage on muscles suffers, reducing ability to exercise.

As for protein, I've found, by running out of various amino acids with symptoms and labs that day so, that I need between 95 and 120g of protein a day.

To stay in ketosis, one needs fat to be high. Adding protein decreases the fat% so that on the same amount of calories, it bumps one out of ketosis.

I've experimented with diet and found that 50-55% fat, 20-25% protein and 25% carbs works best for me and is sustainable and allows me to meet all the nutrient goals in Cronometer, though I still supplement with high doses of some nutrients due to my increased micronutrient needs.

I'm having 80 - 90 g protein and I consistently have morning (fasted) blood ketone readings of between 3.2 and 5. I haven;t tested postprandial ketones, just glucose but I doubt this much protein is kicking me out of ketosis.
I was eating less protein (60 - 70 g) and more fat until a couple of weeks ago and the readings were in that exact same range.
I'm experimenting with a carnivore approach, just for a few months, so obviously carb intake is extemely low and that likely influences ketosis results.

 

[FinRinTin]

@anne_likes_red
I don't think that protein normally kicks you out of Ketosis.

Unfortunately I don't like eating meat except of my daily polish sausage - and once a week a filet steak.
I prefer cheese and nuts.

 

[anne_likes_red]

@anne_likes_red
I don't think that protein normally kicks you out of Ketosis.

Unfortunately I don't like eating meat except of my daily polish sausage - and once a week a filet steak.
I prefer cheese and nuts.

Hi, no it doesn't. People eat up to 130 g per day (and very little fat) and stay well in ketosis. It's all about the carbohydrate.
I have never eaten Polish sausage...funny that's the second time in as many days I've seen it mentioned. Universe trying to tell me something?

 

[poohsilk]

My husband and I started a keto diet mid-march. I found I could not stand to be without starch so once a week I eat rice noodles. I know that's not the best but I also found my histamine problems exploded and I have Mast Cell Activation Syndrome. I added Dairy and fat to my diet and was really happy at first when Dairy was not a problem. But it became more and more of a problem. we are always organic grass-fed and grass finished everything. I really rely on my meat and fat now as well as vegetables. Some Dairy maybe low histamine but anyway that's a different subject.

Do you all have a a good source for ketogenic diets well explained? Sorry if this is off topic.

My husband is more tired now than before and eats a lot of meat and dairy cuz he thinks it's all good.