Pyruvate dehydrogenase function depends on thiamine (B1)

Asklipia

Asklipia

Senior Member
Messages
999
taa2 said:
Can I ask you where you get the Alinamin Ex Plus from? (I'm in the UK) Thanks!
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I get it from Amazon.com. It comes directly from Japan. I ordered several times from different sellers, never had a problem. Please note that because the Japanese make little difference between "L" ar "R", this is sometimes referred to as Arinamin.

@drob31 Ingredients of Alinamin Ex Plus here. How I found out about this? Brain power I suppose.

I am aware that Takeda has a new formulation, called Alinamin Ex Gold. Ingredients of Alinamin Ex Gold here.
Basically, the new Gold formulation replaces cyanocobalamin with mecobalamin, B5 (calcium pantothenate) with B9 (folic acid), B6 with Pyridoxal phosphate hydrate.

Be well! :balloons:
 
T

taa2

Messages
36
Asklipia said:
I get it from Amazon.com. It comes directly from Japan. I ordered several times from different sellers, never had a problem. Please note that because the Japanese make little difference between "L" ar "R", this is sometimes referred to as Arinamin.

@drob31 Ingredients of Alinamin Ex Plus here. How I found out about this? Brain power I suppose.

I am aware that Takeda has a new formulation, called Alinamin Ex Gold. Ingredients of Alinamin Ex Gold here.
Basically, the new Gold formulation replaces cyanocobalamin with mecobalamin, B5 (calcium pantothenate) with B9 (folic acid), B6 with Pyridoxal phosphate hydrate.

Be well! :balloons:
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Thanks! do you feel the combo of thiamine supplements have helped energy wise?
 
M

Manders

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21
Thiamine Deprivation Produces a Liver ATP Deficit and Metabolic and Genomic Effects in Mice: Findings Are Parallel to Those of Biotin Deficiency and Have Implications for Energy Disorders.

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/28214879

The article notes thiamine is a coenzyme of PDH, and also discusses the metabolic changes which occur as a result of the B1 deprivation.

Not a scientist/medically trained, so I didn't understand it all, but the reduced glucose, increased serum lactate, and reduced cholesterol and triglycerides sounded like symptoms of CFS/ME.
 
E

Eastman

Senior Member
Messages
536
Thiamine and benfotiamine improve cognition and ameliorate GSK-3β-associated stress-induced behaviours in mice.

Abstract
Thiamine (vitamin B1) deficiency in the brain has been implicated in the development of dementia and symptoms of depression. Indirect evidence suggests that thiamine may contribute to these pathologies by controlling the activities of glycogen synthase kinase (GSK)-3β. While decreased GSK-3β activity appears to impair memory, increased GSK-3β activity is associated with the distressed/depressed state. However, hitherto direct evidence for the effects of thiamine on GSK-3β function has not been reported. Here, we administered thiamine or, the more bioavailable precursor, benfotiamine at 200mg/kg/day for 2weeks to C57BL/6J mice, to determine whether treatment might affect behaviours that are known to be sensitive to GSK-3β activity and whether such administration impacts on GSK-3β expression within the brain. The mice were tested in models of contextual conditioning and extinction, a 5-day rat exposure stress test, and a modified swim test with repeated testing. The tricyclic antidepressant imipramine (7.5mg/kg/day), was administered as a positive control for the effects of thiamine or benfotiamine. As for imipramine, both compounds inhibited the upregulation of GSK-3β induced by predator stress or repeated swimming, and reduced floating scores and the predator stress-induced behavioural changes in anxiety and exploration. Coincident, thiamine and benfotiamine improved learning and extinction of contextual fear, and the acquisition of the step-down avoidance task. Our data indicate that thiamine and benfotiamine have antidepressant/anti-stress effects in naïve animals that are associated with reduced GSK-3β expression and conditioning of adverse memories. Thus thiamine and benfotiamine may modulate GSK-3β functions in a manner that is dependent on whether the contextual conditioning is adaptive or maladaptive.
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drob31

drob31

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1,487
Another source of vitamin B1 is sulbutiamine which is a dimer of thiamine that can pass through the blood-brain barrier [17]. It has been shown in studies to increase concentrations of vitamin B1 in the brain [18]. Sulbutiamine has been used for the treatment of asthenia, meaning physical weakness brought on usually as the result of an infection [19]. It has also shown the ability to improve memory in an animal model when testing for retention of information after 24 hours through a possible cholinergic mechanism [20]. This memory improvement is similar to the results seen in memory tests of the PDE4 inhibitor rolipram, where short-term memory was not affected but memory after 24 hours was significantly improved [21].

It would make sense then that the co-factors needed to make acetyl-CoA, including thiamine, pyruvate and pre-cursors to coenzyme-A, the CoA part of acetyl-Coa, such as vitamin B5 and other nutrients should be readily available in the in brain in order to optimize the production of acetylcholine. Given acetyl-CoA’s participation in the Krebs cycle, increasing the availability of acetyl-CoA precursors and cofactors should have broader cellular energy enhancing benefits as well.
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https://www.naturalstacks.com/blogs/news/112870213-increasing-mental-processing-with-acetylcholine

Perhaps add Alpha-GPC to the stack?
 
eljefe19

eljefe19

Senior Member
Messages
483
Is Alpha GPC a cofactor in the Krebs cycle? Too brain fogged to see why it may be beneficial here, sorry.
 
Asklipia

Asklipia

Senior Member
Messages
999
@Gondwanaland I hope you are still happy with your carcinine. Are you still on it?
I have stopped thiamine for a few days as I was travelling but am starting again today. I feel fine.
Be well! :hug:
 
Gondwanaland

Gondwanaland

Senior Member
Messages
5,103
Asklipia

Asklipia

Senior Member
Messages
999
Gondwanaland said:
It caused excessive thyroid stimulation... :meh:
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Sorry about that! Maybe that is why the new eyebrows appeared. Are they still there?
Was it Alistin FG that you took? From where? I might give it a try, just to get my bushy eyebrows back.
Be well!:hug:

Edit : it must be Glycoxil. I could not find an online supplier sending it to Europe. Can't read portuguese so easily :(. Do you have an idea for a reliable pharmacy?
 
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Gondwanaland

Gondwanaland

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5,103
Asklipia said:
Maybe that is why the new eyebrows appeared. Are they still there?
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Probably it was. I will have to observe how long they last :rolleyes:
Asklipia said:
Edit : it must be Glycoxil. I could not find an online supplier sending it to Europe. Can't read portuguese so easily :(. Do you have an idea for a reliable pharmacy?
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Exactly. I get it locally compounded under dr's prescription. Why don't you try carnosine or Beta-Alanine? I recommend to start very low rather than with the high dose tablets they sell.
 
Asklipia

Asklipia

Senior Member
Messages
999
Gondwanaland said:
Long ago my dr offered me Carcinine, that is a modified molecule of Carnosine. I didn't want to try it before because it is a DAO blocker and I already had too many food intolerances as it was.
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This might be the thing : DAO produces acetaldehyde from histamine. Maybe the Carcinine works by lowering the levels of acetaldehyde?
 
Gondwanaland

Gondwanaland

Senior Member
Messages
5,103
On how much do you folks estimate your intake of sulfites as naturally occurring or added as a preservative to the food ou eat?

I had been eating strictly fresh food, but recently I relaxed a bit about it and increased my intake of dried food and nuts (and even transdermal gels, shampoos and soaps - sulfites are added to everything) and run into sulfite hell and B1 depletion. Interestingly I get a sulfite headache from taking B1 :ill:

I will have to take the carcinine at least 1x weekly I guess since it improves transsulfuration.

And back to sodium bicarbonaate to wash my hair.
 
Asklipia

Asklipia

Senior Member
Messages
999
Some news : I have been taking thiamine in various forms throughout the day not everything everyday, just two or three helpings at random)
- 150 mg benfotiamine + leucine
- 50 mg Allitiamine
- 33 mg fursultiamine Alinamex Plus
- 200 mg sulbutiamine
+ B2 25 mg a day
I am fine, with better energy.
I have understood how my thiamine is going away! I feel it!
One way is maintaining the aura. If I practice yoga, I find that after ten minutes or so, I cannot easily operate my tablet or use my cooking range which has tactile controls. My body is not such a good conductor, its strength repels stuff trying to connect to earth through me. Also if I do too much, I feel my hair has more volume and may even try to stand on end.
Now I feel this is costing me thiamine!
Been playing a game on my iPad for an hour moving repeatedly jigsaw puzzle pieces around with my index finger, and I feel the level of thiamine going definitely down! Moving the pieces cost thiamine!
Reading on a screen costs more thiamine than reading from paper!
Throwing the glance costs thiamine but it seems that if the object looked at is blue, it costs more thiamine that if it is red!

Of course I do not have the slightest proof of this, but this is definitely my experience over the last few weeks. I did not want to deprive you of it.
Good luck and be well!
:)
 
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