Pyroluria with low copper?
- Thread starter Boost
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Try a copper supplement. Copper rich food isn't really testing the theory in isolation. I can't remember if you said the other day you'd tried a supplement or not.
http://planetthrive.com/2010/04/hpukpu-protocol-for-lyme-and-autism/
You also have to be careful with copper supplementation due to copper transport problems. If the copper carrier protein (caeruloplasmin) is low, you will just be creating free copper (toxic).
Unfortunately, copper deficiency can also cause low caeruloplasmin. So you don't know when running this test if it is just low for other reasons or low because copper is deficient.
You also have to be careful with copper supplementation due to copper transport problems. If the copper carrier protein (caeruloplasmin) is low, you will just be creating free copper (toxic).
Unfortunately, copper deficiency can also cause low caeruloplasmin. So you don't know when running this test if it is just low for other reasons or low because copper is deficient.
Marlène
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Hmm, interesting. I have low copper and low caeruloplasmin as well.
Maybe this articel is of interest for you:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajh.20766/pdf
Hypocupremia Associated With Prior Vitamin B12 Deficiency
Maybe this articel is of interest for you:
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/ajh.20766/pdf
Hypocupremia Associated With Prior Vitamin B12 Deficiency
Very interesting. I have low copper and low caeruloplasmin too, but there's no guarantee that you aren't also loaded with free copper. In which case if caeruloplasmin doesn't rise when you supplement copper, you're making yourself copper toxic, whilst staying copper deficient.
It's a hard thing.
I guess if you have a doctor willing to run repeated tests, you could monitor it. Not many of us have doctors willing to do this kind of thing though.
Likewise getting an RBC copper would be interesting. If there's enough in RBCs, serum and caeuloplasmin might not matter so much.
(This is speculation on a bunch of things I've read on this. I thought I was copper deficient about a year and a half ago for the same reasons as Boost, pyroluria treatment)
It's a hard thing.
I guess if you have a doctor willing to run repeated tests, you could monitor it. Not many of us have doctors willing to do this kind of thing though.
Likewise getting an RBC copper would be interesting. If there's enough in RBCs, serum and caeuloplasmin might not matter so much.
(This is speculation on a bunch of things I've read on this. I thought I was copper deficient about a year and a half ago for the same reasons as Boost, pyroluria treatment)
Marlène
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@ hixxy
Do you have low transferrine as well?
Do you have low transferrine as well?
nanonug
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Awesome find, Marlne. This is very interesting!
Marlène
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nanonug
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more interesting finds are at http://b12vitaminetekortpodium.blogspot.com/
Your job for the next couple of weeks is to translate everything to English!
By the way, is this your blog?
Marlène
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Tip: The links in English are on the left side of the page and at the bottom of the dutch articles.
(It is not my blog.)
(It is not my blog.)
Your job for the next couple of weeks is to translate everything to English!
By the way, is this your blog?
Get yourself a translation plugin for your browser or move to one with it built in (chrome)?
nanonug
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Hixxy, OK, it's true, my attempts at humor always fail miserably. But come on, that comment of mine to was supposed to be funny, man!
By the way, I tried Chrome but didn't really like it. There are a few pluggins I am used to on Firefox (which also sucks in its own special way) that just didn't work properly on Chrome.
Here's a sort-of transcript for the copper section
There's the copper-zinc-SOD in the cell (there's also an SOD outside the cell, which is also copper dependent; and an Mn SOD). SOD, catylase and glutathione are part of the body's defence against oxidative stress (which we could call rust). Copper is essential for SOD and it's needed for catylase (which needs iron, but iron is only as good as the copper) and glutathione peroxidase (needs Selenium and magnesium, but doesn't work as well in a copper deficient body). Copper is, in fact, the workhorse that prevents rust in the body.
So what about zinc and kryptopyrroles? ... some discussion about chemistry (minute 48.5).
Haemogloblin is 4 pyrroles with iron at the centre. This makes haem an important chemical, allowing iron to store oxygen in the body. But, the enzymes that get the iron where it should be work only in the presence of copper (min 50).
The issue with copper in this context is faulty haem production. While the pyrrole does cause issues with loss of zinc and b6, it's because copper is not available to make the haemoglobin, zinc and b6 are destroyed in the body.
This means we are treating a symptom of low zinc and b6, when, in fact, it is a copper deficiency that's causing the problem and never gets addressed.
[discussion of sugars in alcohol] ... when people are short of copper, they're going to crave sugar to help build dopamine. Drinking gets rid of the magnesium, zinc, b6. When the liver can't function any more, it stops making ceruloplasm, and then the alcohol craving continue ... [looking for sugar/alcohol to boost dopamine]
So what about zinc and kryptopyrroles? ... some discussion about chemistry (minute 48.5).
Haemogloblin is 4 pyrroles with iron at the centre. This makes haem an important chemical, allowing iron to store oxygen in the body. But, the enzymes that get the iron where it should be work only in the presence of copper (min 50).
The issue with copper in this context is faulty haem production. While the pyrrole does cause issues with loss of zinc and b6, it's because copper is not available to make the haemoglobin, zinc and b6 are destroyed in the body.
This means we are treating a symptom of low zinc and b6, when, in fact, it is a copper deficiency that's causing the problem and never gets addressed.
[discussion of sugars in alcohol] ... when people are short of copper, they're going to crave sugar to help build dopamine. Drinking gets rid of the magnesium, zinc, b6. When the liver can't function any more, it stops making ceruloplasm, and then the alcohol craving continue ... [looking for sugar/alcohol to boost dopamine]
Just to complicate things.
Lowered adrenal function will cause a build up of copper in the liver and lower excretion rates at the same time.
https://www.researchgate.net/public...epatic_copper_in_the_rat_by_the_adrenal_gland
Lowered adrenal function will cause a build up of copper in the liver and lower excretion rates at the same time.
https://www.researchgate.net/public...epatic_copper_in_the_rat_by_the_adrenal_gland
Exactly. Morley talks a lot about ACTH in this case. But there is nothing solid I know about this.