- The original schizophrenia claim that brought attention to pyrroles has been disproven.
Originally pyrroles were blamed for schizophrenia because people who took LSD had elevated levels of pyrroles in their urine.
Already this is a fallacy, the elevated pyrroles may have no effect on cognition, they may just be an inconsequential downstream effect of LSD.
Secondly, we know that hallucinogens bind to and antagonize different serotonin receptors, which then have a direct effect on our mind. Hallucinogens do not cause people to hallucinate through pyrroles. This is extremely well studied.
In conclusion the original reason researchers were drawn to pyrroles has already been disproven. Pyrroles are not responsible for the hallucinations during LSD.
- B6 and Zinc, do they really bind to pyrroles? Is this effect actually significant?
I have seen no proof of this anywhere, everyone just says it is a fact. I'm starting to believe that this was just made up. You would think this would be a very easy thing to test.
- Even if B6 and Zinc deficiency correlate with elevated pyrroles, these two vitamins/minerals are involved in almost every metabolic pathway in the body. Wouldn't it make more sense if B6 and/or Zinc deficiency caused elevated pyrroles?
- Websites say stress increases pyrroles which decreases b6 and zinc. You know what else causes decreases in b vitamins? Oxidative stress, which can be a result of emotional stress.
Due to mechanisms described in the numerous refeeding syndrome threads, a deficiency in one nutrient will cause a deficiency in others. Zinc deficiency will coincide with b vitamin deficiency. B vitamins are heavily influenced by oxidative stress. Pyrroles are not necessarily the mechanism of stress induced vitamin depletion.
- It is entirely possible that something else, such as lead etc, causes elevated pyrroles, and also zinc/b vitamin deficiency.
Overall:
The original claim that brought attention to pyrroles was bogus.
The "B6 and Zinc binding to pyrroles in significant amounts" claim has no proof that I can find and seems to be made up.
Pyrroles and B6/Zinc deficiencies might be related, but we can't say how.
Refeeding syndrome, heavy metal poisoning etc may give long lasting B6/Zinc/Nutrient deficiency that resembles pyroluria.
Pyroluria might be real, b6 and zinc might bind to pyrroles in significant amounts, but we have no proof available.
Pyrroles might be correlated with nutritional deficiencies, not the cause of them. The same thing could be said with hundreds of substances in our body.
It seems very likely that pyrroluria is a case of someone looking too hard for patterns, and then sensationalizing their claims without actually verifying anything with rigorous systemic study.
If someone has good reasoning against my thinking, I'd love to hear it. I can't prove pyroluria doesn't exist, but once I stepped back and considered all the possibilities, it just doesn't seem likely.
I'm all for B6 and Zinc supplementation though, just not this reasoning behind it.
Originally pyrroles were blamed for schizophrenia because people who took LSD had elevated levels of pyrroles in their urine.
Already this is a fallacy, the elevated pyrroles may have no effect on cognition, they may just be an inconsequential downstream effect of LSD.
Secondly, we know that hallucinogens bind to and antagonize different serotonin receptors, which then have a direct effect on our mind. Hallucinogens do not cause people to hallucinate through pyrroles. This is extremely well studied.
In conclusion the original reason researchers were drawn to pyrroles has already been disproven. Pyrroles are not responsible for the hallucinations during LSD.
- B6 and Zinc, do they really bind to pyrroles? Is this effect actually significant?
I have seen no proof of this anywhere, everyone just says it is a fact. I'm starting to believe that this was just made up. You would think this would be a very easy thing to test.
- Even if B6 and Zinc deficiency correlate with elevated pyrroles, these two vitamins/minerals are involved in almost every metabolic pathway in the body. Wouldn't it make more sense if B6 and/or Zinc deficiency caused elevated pyrroles?
- Websites say stress increases pyrroles which decreases b6 and zinc. You know what else causes decreases in b vitamins? Oxidative stress, which can be a result of emotional stress.
Due to mechanisms described in the numerous refeeding syndrome threads, a deficiency in one nutrient will cause a deficiency in others. Zinc deficiency will coincide with b vitamin deficiency. B vitamins are heavily influenced by oxidative stress. Pyrroles are not necessarily the mechanism of stress induced vitamin depletion.
- It is entirely possible that something else, such as lead etc, causes elevated pyrroles, and also zinc/b vitamin deficiency.
Overall:
The original claim that brought attention to pyrroles was bogus.
The "B6 and Zinc binding to pyrroles in significant amounts" claim has no proof that I can find and seems to be made up.
Pyrroles and B6/Zinc deficiencies might be related, but we can't say how.
Refeeding syndrome, heavy metal poisoning etc may give long lasting B6/Zinc/Nutrient deficiency that resembles pyroluria.
Pyroluria might be real, b6 and zinc might bind to pyrroles in significant amounts, but we have no proof available.
Pyrroles might be correlated with nutritional deficiencies, not the cause of them. The same thing could be said with hundreds of substances in our body.
It seems very likely that pyrroluria is a case of someone looking too hard for patterns, and then sensationalizing their claims without actually verifying anything with rigorous systemic study.
If someone has good reasoning against my thinking, I'd love to hear it. I can't prove pyroluria doesn't exist, but once I stepped back and considered all the possibilities, it just doesn't seem likely.
I'm all for B6 and Zinc supplementation though, just not this reasoning behind it.
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