Problems with Freddds protocol

[Helander]

I´ve been on Freddds protocol for a couple of month. I´m taking some basics and the deadlock quartet from the recommended brands. Everything seems to be going great: I get the startup going, low potassium sign of healing, energy, better sleep etc. Every now and then I get paradoxical folate deficiency which I relieve by taking some more folate. So far so good. But everytime I titrate and reach 7 mg folate I get sick all of a sudden. Extremely tired, sore throat, fever, fluish feeling, ache etc. First I thought it was folate insuffiency but I tried taking more folate and it had no effect (I even took 30.000 mg folate just to be sure that wasn´t the case). Then I thought that it might be the famous metyhltrap so I added 5 mg more B12 but that didn´t help either. The only thing that gets me out of the sick state is to reduce the folate back to 3 mg. Then I feel better within 24 hours. Then I have to start all over from 3 mg and titrate. But as soon as I reach 7 mg folate I get sick again and have to back down.

Am I overmethylating all of a sudden when I get to 7 mg folate? I thought that overmethylatating was a “myth”? I don´t understand what could possibly be causing the “7 mg folate” limit. Does someone has an any input on what´s going on?

 

[adreno]

I don't think overmethylation is a myth. Listen to your body.

 

[shah78]

The goal of methylation therapy is to feel better. It is not to take as much folate/b12 as we possible can. Think MINIMAL THERAPUETIC DOSE. Even our own patron saint of methylation "St. Freddd of Salt Lake City" would probably take far less "stuff" if he could get away with it. Plus though the" stuff" is relatively cheap, there are a lot better things to spend money on.

 

[shah78]

I'm going to invoke another methylation maven..... Goucho Marx... When he asked a woman contestant on his game show why she had so many children, she answered"I love my husband." Groucho replied:"I love a good cigar, but I TAKE IT OUT OF MY MOUTH SOMETIME!". Perhaps that wisom applies here as well.

 

[Helander]

I absolutely agree and each time that happens I back down, of course. But since I get folate deficiency symptoms when taking 5-6 mg folate it´s a bit frustrating to all of a sudden overmethylate at 7 mg folate. Maybe I should try 6.½ mg folate then

 

[Star-Anise]

@Helander
Your plan to microtitrate sounds good. I find sometimes it seems like I'm splitting hairs too. I open up those capsules and I have my system of dividing them up. Everyone makes fun of me because it looks like I'm running lines of cocaine, lol!
Also what I found recently is that by adding some of the co-factors to methylation in that it has helped soften & even prevent that "overmethylation" feeling that you can get at higher doses. The main one I've benefited from recently is adding back in magnesium. I would suggest adding the cofactors in though when you are at your lower dose, not higher.
From an original post by Rich that I got from another member re: cofactors:

You may be lacking enough of the vitamin and mineral cofactors that are needed by the enzymes in the methylation cycle and related pathways. These include the other B vitamins, zinc, magnesium, manganese, copper, and selenium. Some people have HPU, which depletes several of these cofactors, especially zinc and vitamin B6.

Another possibility is high levels of toxic heavy metals, such as mercury, which can block enzymes in this part of the metabolism. If this is the problem, it may be necessary to do some chelation before the methylation cycle will get going.

I know my ability to increase my methyl agents increased substantially about 2 months after I got my amalgam fillings removed.

And as well, I have mucho, mucho, been benefiting from CoQ10 recently. Interestingly, it has really helped me to be able to increase the ceiling on my methylfolate.
I hear what you are saying regarding having deficiency symptoms, but yet feeling better at your lower dose. Same goes for me, that's why I keep trying to up my dose of methylfolate. I have big edema problems.
Hope that helps, S

 

[Victronix]

I guess a question is, is 7 mg necessary, or is 3 mg enough?

"Everything seems to be going great"

It sounds like it may be an amount that works for you.

 

[whodathunkit]

I like @Star-Anise's advice, and also echo @Victronix' question.

LOL @shah78.

But I'm posting to say that I seem to be suffering from a fairly virulent donut-hole right now, too. I upped my vitamin C and zinc last night to hedge my bets against my illness being a virus along with the donut hole, and lo, I suddenly seem to be feeling better tonight. I upped my dosage to 9000mg/day of C and 90mg/day of zinc.

So I'm wondering if possibly high-dose C and zinc might not have some role to play for some of us in the donut hole? I won't keep my zinc that high for very long (could be dangerous), but plan to stay with high-dose C for some months, just for kicks. I've read somewhere here that Freddd did high-dose C for a while, to good effect, but can't recall if it had anything to do with folate insufficiency.

Thinking out loud...

 

[Helander]

Thanks, I really appeciate your input.

When I take 3 mg folate I enter the donut hole after a week or so and the healing declines after feeling really good. So I really can´t stay at 3 mg and need to take more do get out of it. Same thing at 6 mg folate. But when I reach 7 mg it´s like hitting a wall all of a sudden. I guess I need to look a little more on the basics to find the missing part.

 

[skwag]

It seems to me a healthy person should be able to take 7mg of metafolin daily without issue. The Deplin trials support this conclusion. But, we all know that people here get reactions at various dosages. I would think this means that you are short on something else. Maybe zinc or ..... who knows? If I were you I would titrate the basics one by one and look for improvement. Maybe even try some of the other cofactors.

I'm not suggesting everyone should try to take 7mg. The less we have to take the better, but i think this is a signpost for you. You just have to figure it out what it means. Not easy.

 

[Helander]

Yeah, who knows? I take 60 mg zinc so that probably shouldn´t be the missing part. It´s hard to know if I should move on to Ribose, Sam-E etc or wait and work more with basics and co-factor. It feels that there are so many almost endless possibilities that makes the chain break. The days I get it to work I almost feel cured so I´m eager to solve the mystery. I´m starting with a mineral complex today to see if that makes a difference.