Problems with Acetyl L-Carnitine?

[Sparrow]

So, Sparrow since you reacted strongly but you say now you notice neither good or bad does that mean over time the overstimulation effect went away? I really would like to try it again because I did notice a positive effect, but it definitely overstimulated me too. Almost to the point where I felt, not manic, but a mild version of that. Something like being on drugs.

It went away when I dropped the dose down even further (or at least, I think it did. I seem to be pretty close to where I was before). I really didn't like what it was doing to me, so I never waited out the higher dose long enough to know whether the side effects would have faded with time.

I can't say for sure whether I'm any worse than I used to be in terms of the overstimulation, but if I am it's subtle now. The lower dose isn't doing anything noticeably bad. ...Though it is a very low dose, so I'm not certain how much good it's doing either.

I can't remember where the info originally came from, but I recall acetyl-l-carnitine having a connection to acetylcholine levels (helping to increase production, I believe). I'm willing to bet it shot yours through the roof for some reason. Sounds very much like what you're describing (like the gas pedal on your brain was pushed to the floor). I think it may have done something similar to me. Maybe our natural acetylcholine levels are already quite high? Maybe we just process it differently. It might be worth trying regular l-carnitine (non acetyl), as I believe it might be the acetyl component that's used directly to produce acetylcholine. Maybe we just don't need a boost to that side of things.

 

[Ocean]

It went away when I dropped the dose down even further (or at least, I think it did. I seem to be pretty close to where I was before). I really didn't like what it was doing to me, so I never waited out the higher dose long enough to know whether the side effects would have faded with time.

I can't say for sure whether I'm any worse than I used to be in terms of the overstimulation, but if I am it's subtle now. The lower dose isn't doing anything noticeably bad. ...Though it is a very low dose, so I'm not certain how much good it's doing either.

I can't remember where the info originally came from, but I recall acetyl-l-carnitine having a connection to acetylcholine levels (helping to increase production, I believe). I'm willing to bet it shot yours through the roof for some reason. Sounds very much like what you're describing (like the gas pedal on your brain was pushed to the floor). I think it may have done something similar to me. Maybe our natural acetylcholine levels are already quite high? Maybe we just process it differently. It might be worth trying regular l-carnitine (non acetyl), as I believe it might be the acetyl component that's used directly to produce acetylcholine. Maybe we just don't need a boost to that side of things.

Thanks Sparrow. I did try the l-carnitine version and had trouble with that too unfortunately. Someone above mentioned a different form and I will try that sometime as well as an even tinier dose of the ALC. It may be that your theory is exactly right. I looked up symptoms of high acetylcholine and I had many of them including anxiety, increased urination, sleep distrurbance. I also felt irritable and depressed for a day or two after I took it and this site says:

"ACh can act like a stimulant by releasing norepinephrine (NE) and dopamine (DA). However, those brain chemicals are used up (depleted) in the process; and a deficiency can occur. Too much ACh relative to other brain chemicals such as SE, NE, and DA has an adverse effect on brain function. This is because in larger quantities ACh acts like an inhibitory neurotransmitter, causing increased nervous system inhibition (depression). Important to remember is that, in general, as ACh levels go up in the brain, the levels of the other brain transmitters go down.

In terms of mood, the combination of higher ACh and NE, together with lower SE, produces anxiety, emotional lability, irritability, anger, aggressiveness, negative rumination, impatience, and impulsiveness (among other things). When NE, DA, and SE are low and acetylcholine is high, the result is simply depression."
http://mindrenewal.us/page13.html

Too bad the only thing I've found that has helped with my facial inflammation seems like I may not be able to tolerate it. I wonder if my levels are already on the high side and this sent it over the edge? I am not normally depressed at all but many meds and supplements seem to cause that side effect in me. I wonder if there may be any connection.

 

[Sparrow]

Too bad the only thing I've found that has helped with my facial inflammation seems like I may not be able to tolerate it. I wonder if my levels are already on the high side and this sent it over the edge? I am not normally depressed at all but many meds and supplements seem to cause that side effect in me. I wonder if there may be any connection.

I wonder if there are some similarities in our physical situation. I think I recall a lot of what you've said as sounding familiar to me. My mood is generally good, but prone to being easily affected by supplements, etc. too. ...If you find your miracle cure, let me know I guess.

 

[xrunner]

I tried this recently at a low dose, 125 mg, and had strong side effects for a day or two. I took in the morning at about 9 but had serious trouble sleeping all night that night. It seemed to get me fairly wired. I fell asleep at night but woke up repeatedly and then couldn't get back to sleep. It also caused me to urinate a lot. It also had some positive effects and for that I'd really like to try to find a way to take it again. I read taking it before 3 pm should prevent sleep troubles but that did not work for me obviously.

Has anyone else had trouble with this before, or know why it affected me so much at a low dose, or if there's anything I can do to be able to tolerate it, like maybe it needs another supplement to take along with it or, I don't know. Thanks.

It had exactly the same effect on me. And I experienced the same with other "mitos" enhancing supps.
I was one of the first patients on the Acumen (Biolab at the time) mitos testing and the Myhill protocol. On advice of the Dr I persisted with low doses and tried to build up. I ended up having a horrible crash. Another couple of patients I knew and were doing the same protocol had similar experiences. I can't see the point of taking these supplements if make one worse.
On top of that I still haven't seen any stats on how many pwme are actually helped by this approach. If it did in any meaningful way, we would have seen some evidence by now!

No, I personally wouldn't try to force it or try to compensate with other "calming" supps (I tried that). I tried different forms of carnitine (acetyl, fumarate, etc.) and all had the same "amphetamine" effect. I found it wasn't worth it and too risky.

It's probably more effective if all these nutrients are produced endogenously by your body. I think Rich explained on a number of occasions that if you address methylation, then carnitine and other nutrients will normalise as a result. I think Vitamin C is also a main cofactor and helps the body make carnitine. This approach is safer in my experience.

Too bad the only thing I've found that has helped with my facial inflammation seems like I may not be able to tolerate it. I wonder if my levels are already on the high side and this sent it over the edge? I am not normally depressed at all but many meds and supplements seem to cause that side effect in me. I wonder if there may be any connection.

You may want to look into cat's claw as a strong anti-inflammatory for your facial inflammation. As a "side effect" it can raise energy levels. It's a mood enhancer whilst having a calming effect on the nervous system. On top of that it's an inducer of NK cells activity etc. etc. etc.

all the best

 

[ramakentesh]

ALCAR increases acetylcholine levels. Choline and B5 are acetylcholine cofactors. Acetylcholine activates the parasympathic nervous system. This should have a calming, though not sedating, effect.

Acetylcholine increases can stimulate sympathetic as well as parasympathetic levels through ganglionic nicotonic receptors.

 

[adreno]

Acetylcholine increases can stimulate sympathetic as well as parasympathetic levels through ganglionic nicotonic receptors.

Right, thanks for pointing that out.

 

[ramakentesh]

but is also works at the muscaranic level to double-blow increase parasympathetic activity. I find mestinon quite helpful for POTS. Or did at least for a while.

 

[adreno]

Yes, I generally find cholinergics helpful for POTS, too. ALCAR also increase wakefulness in me, although I don't feel stimmed up. I find it has a overall calming effect on the cardiovascular system, reducing tachycardia.

 

[ramakentesh]

Yeah mestinon is very calming generally - not always but generally. It really improves my vision as well. Unfortunately it doesnt generally improve my standing time by that much. More my comfortable sitting time strangely

 

[Athene]

I was taking carnitine for ages and wondered why I felt so rotten on it. Since the doc said I needed it, I persisted.

Recently I was told by another PR member that it blocks the body's uptake of thyroid hormones. It is being touted as a miracle treatment for HYPERthyroid conditions as it stops T3 and T4 from working inside the cells. So if your thyroid gland is firing on all cylinders and you probably won't notice it, but when your thyroid is low, you will feel truly cruddy.
I am taking a thyroid supplement now as I was too low - it had limited effect till I was warned to stop the carnitine. Now I feel absolutely great.

 

[heapsreal]

Yeah mestinon is very calming generally - not always but generally. It really improves my vision as well. Unfortunately it doesnt generally improve my standing time by that much. More my comfortable sitting time strangely

mestinon i have read helps increase growth hormone levels.
any experience with GH from this??

cheers!!!

 

[Pea]

My friend, who is not sensitive to much of anything, apparently is sensitive to the carnitines also.

He has been taking it in this Yasko spray, and the spray mechanism broke, so he dribbled it in his coffee yesterday and I think he had way too much, and he was very lethargic, muscle aches, yet giddy at times. I hope he didn't ruin his serotonin.

Why would he be lethargic instead of too much energy - because it's also an antioxidant?

 

[Little Bluestem]

I am taking a thyroid supplement now as I was too low - it had limited effect till I was warned to stop the carnitine. Now I feel absolutely great.

What form(s) of carnitine were you taking?

 

[L'engle]

I felt a benefit for a few months taking L-carnitine Fumarate, but now I think it is affecting my sleep badly. It could be that I don't need to take as much of it anymore. It does help with exercise, that I've found, though lately I'm not sure if I don't just feel the same either taking it or not. Maybe its OK to take for a while for some, then can be too much. I've no idea and don't have the time to devote to learning exactly how it works.

 

[Ocean]

It had exactly the same effect on me. And I experienced the same with other "mitos" enhancing supps.
I was one of the first patients on the Acumen (Biolab at the time) mitos testing and the Myhill protocol. On advice of the Dr I persisted with low doses and tried to build up. I ended up having a horrible crash. Another couple of patients I knew and were doing the same protocol had similar experiences. I can't see the point of taking these supplements if make one worse.
On top of that I still haven't seen any stats on how many pwme are actually helped by this approach. If it did in any meaningful way, we would have seen some evidence by now!

No, I personally wouldn't try to force it or try to compensate with other "calming" supps (I tried that). I tried different forms of carnitine (acetyl, fumarate, etc.) and all had the same "amphetamine" effect. I found it wasn't worth it and too risky.

It's probably more effective if all these nutrients are produced endogenously by your body. I think Rich explained on a number of occasions that if you address methylation, then carnitine and other nutrients will normalise as a result. I think Vitamin C is also a main cofactor and helps the body make carnitine. This approach is safer in my experience.


You may want to look into cat's claw as a strong anti-inflammatory for your facial inflammation. As a "side effect" it can raise energy levels. It's a mood enhancer whilst having a calming effect on the nervous system. On top of that it's an inducer of NK cells activity etc. etc. etc.

all the best

Thanks for the cat's claw tip. I have ordered a few other supplements that also may be stimulating. After I try low doses of those, if I don't have success, I'll probably go the same route as you and take a break from these. No point in trying them again and again if they worsen me. Maybe at some point if I try methylation then those issues will normalize as you mentioned.

 

[L'engle]

So, I seem to have completely forgotten my instance of having poor sleep on l carnitine fumarate just a couple of weeks ago, and to days ago took 1000mg of it in the morning, along with SAMe. I've slept a total of maybe 8 hours since Friday morning and it is now midnight on Sunday night. So yeah, I'm awarding myself a "face palm". Maybe I should stick a post-it note on the bottle that says "remember what this did to you last time?"

 

[L'engle]

I felt a benefit for a few months taking L-carnitine Fumarate, but now I think it is affecting my sleep badly. It could be that I don't need to take as much of it anymore. It does help with exercise, that I've found, though lately I'm not sure if I don't just feel the same either taking it or not. Maybe its OK to take for a while for some, then can be too much. I've no idea and don't have the time to devote to learning exactly how it works.

Yeah now I'm awake for nearly 2 days straight so I think I can find the time to learn now. Steep learning curve.

 

[L'engle]

This stuff isn't letting up. I slept alright, though late, on the third night, but last night was the fourth night since taking the l-carnitine fumarate and SAMe. It is past 6am and I haven't slept yet. This is unheard of for me, I've never had insomnia this bad. I'm mentally adding up how long it takes me to recover from more minor insomnia I've had and am dreading how much time this is going to take. And I don't even know when it will let up. I don't normally have insomnia, so my purgatory right now is to lie there knowing I did this to myself, in trying to get better.

 

[heapsreal]

This stuff isn't letting up. I slept alright, though late, on the third night, but last night was the fourth night since taking the l-carnitine fumarate and SAMe. It is past 6am and I haven't slept yet. This is unheard of for me, I've never had insomnia this bad. I'm mentally adding up how long it takes me to recover from more minor insomnia I've had and am dreading how much time this is going to take. And I don't even know when it will let up. I don't normally have insomnia, so my purgatory right now is to lie there knowing I did this to myself, in trying to get better.

yuk yuk, i would stop the supps, your not going to get any better not sleeping. I think i read it wrong, you have been off the supps for 4 days now and its still causing you issues?? I hope it ends for you soon, maybe try some antihistamines for sleep.

cheers!!!

 

[Ocean]

I had lingering sleep issues on it for a few days too L'Engle. Hopefully will be better very soon.